Bard as a starter

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lardin. Show lardin's posts

    Bard as a starter

    Sounds like a good idea, but a I have a couple of questions/concerns. 

    First What if Bard stinks as a starter?  Who replaces him in the rotation?

    Second, if Bard is a decent starter, what is his innings limit.  He has not pitched more that 75 innings in a season.  What happens when he hits that limit?  Who replaces him in the rotation. Does he throw 75 innings as a starter and then go to the pen for the second half of the season? 

    Part of me worries that Bard ends up like Joba in New York..
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    That is why a few cheap signings are probably still yo come, if not a trade.  And don't be too srprised if one of the cheap signings is a guy whose last name starts with W and ends with D.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    Bard will either be great or he'll bomb beyond belief in spring training as a starter. Ben should be talking with the Cubbies about trading Kalish and another piece to the Cubs for Garza. Between Bard,Aceves and Garza the rotation will be set with DiceK warming up for July.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    my gut reaction was that it was wrong....i wanted him as the closer...but im pretty sure Ben knows better than me....

    as a matter of fact, the only GM player move i really hated was the Cameron signing and moving Ells out of CF...that still confuses me to this day...

    I liked the Lackey signing, CC, Agon, a lot.  I'm afraid if CC bombs again this year, it will be over for him in Boston already...I guess that is the burden of getting 180 large or whatever obscene amount he is getting

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    Bard might bomb as a starter , but he also could become the ace of the staff.  It is worth taking a shot at. He has a great arm.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    I hope it works, but I'm skeptical. There was a reason he went from being a starter to a reliever back in the minors, and that was he bombed as a starter. Hopefully, he's developed enough pitches now to make that transition, but I very wary.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    Word has it that he has really honed his change-up.  If this is true, I see no reason why he couldn't be solid.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    hes got a great 2-samer and 4-seamer..His change has greatly improved..I think hes got a kinda slurve too..when he came to boston, Bard only has 2 developed pitches..Thats why he got shelled..Over the last 2+years, he has worked on them and personally, I think he will be a quality starter..maybe 160ish innings this year..He certainly seems to have a starters mentality, not one of a closer..
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    I think Aceves will start the year in BP as usual.  Because he has experience as a starter and he proved himself he can be effective, he will replace Bard right away If Bard fails.  Then Bard could fill Aceves spot.  And this is why Ben will sign or trade for one more solid starter who can be our 4-5 starter.  I would love to see Oswalt in the rotation.  If he signs elsewhere, Saunders can be our 4 or 5th starter. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    I don't understand why folks find the need to change a guy. He's great in the pen...why try to change that? Go out and get someone you know is a starter to start. I completely agree with the Joba comparison. He was a very good set up guy, and they tried to turn him into a starter and he blew up. Now he isn't even their set up guy. I hope Bard is more mentally tough than hothead Joba..but still. I don't get it.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    First of all, I don't believe the RS are expecting him to be a top of the rotation guy.  Solid back of the rotation should suit him fine.  My concern really is mind set from set up man to starter.  I would think that there is a definate difference between the two.
    Second, Ben has done well (so far, hopefully more to come) bringing in options.  The more the better.  I think that takes a little pressure off Bard. 
    Overall, I at least like the option.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    I hope converting Bard to a starter has more of a C.J. Wilson effect and less of a Joba Chamberlin.  A lot may have to do with his conditioning.  He's 26 an a professional athlete so it shouldn't be to much to ask for him to double his work load next year, granted his body can handle it. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    In the old days, bullpen to starter was the norm for most starters.  A recent example would be Derek Lowe. He was sensational out of the pen, but he dveloped into a really good starter. 

    Bullpen to starter of younger starters has been going on for decades.  

      
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    My worry for Bard as a Starter is his Fastball. When he sits in the high 90's he is almost unhittable, when he is in the mid 90's, he isnt. As a starter, he will not be able to throw all out....this was the yankees found out with Joba. And when a batter doesnt have to worry about the high 90's Fastball hit makes the other pitches more hittable also. The bad part is that this might not be apparent in the Spring when the pitchers are ahead of the hitters, but could be come May. By then after Bard has thrown 50 or so innings, it makes it harder to move him back to an effective Pen role. Even if he is effective as a Starter, you then have to deal with the fact that he can most likely only give you 130-150 innings max this year. Besides the fact that Bard wants a shot to do it...why mess with a good thing. Aceves is a much better candidate to convert..

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    Tom I agree with your analysis of his fastball, but I think that is a concern not a reality.....we will have to see how it plays out.  I wouldn't be worried about the innings pitched.  he's a professional athlete in his mid 20's he is perfectly capable of being prepared and conditioned to endure a full season.....if he canno't do that it is just as likely due to another underlying problem. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    Bard as a starter???   Absolutely!!!!

    He's got great stuff, plus the big strike out arm!!!!

    This is a young kid who can easily be stretched out.  The question, as some have discussed, is NOT how many total innings he has pitched in a year.  Frankly that is a pretty stupid analysis, as STARTING is a totally different animal than relief pitching every other day!!!!!!  Do people not get that???  This kid as a starter is a no brainer!  Now, this does leave a HUGE hole in the set up.......  In comes Aceves!  That still leaves a pretty big hole.  I have a great deal of confidence that Bard would be an excellent starter for the Red Sox!!!!!!  I'm just not convinced that the bullpen can fill the gap left?????
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    as to tom's concern???  I truly believe his body & arm are designed to throw flames as a starter.   Again, his "stretch out" to every 5 days will allow him to have what it takes.  He will also be mixing his pitches so much more as a starter!  He won't be throwing flames every pitch!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    In Response to Re: Bard as a starter:
    Tom I agree with your analysis of his fastball, but I think that is a concern not a reality.....we will have to see how it plays out.  I wouldn't be worried about the innings pitched.  he's a professional athlete in his mid 20's he is perfectly capable of being prepared and conditioned to endure a full season.....if he canno't do that it is just as likely due to another underlying problem. 
    Posted by ctredsoxfanhugh

    Hugh....I couldnt agree more with your assessment of his being perfectly capable of it, but this will not be his choice but the team decision. The Sox (as were the Yankees with Joba and Hughes) seem determined never to let guys pitch more than 50 or so innings than they did the year before.....and before you know it...we have the Bard rules.....I will try and be optimistic and hope for the best. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    In Response to Re: Bard as a starter:
    In Response to Re: Bard as a starter : Hugh....I couldnt agree more with your assessment of his being perfectly capable of it, but this will not be his choice but the team decision. The Sox (as were the Yankees with Joba and Hughes) seem determined never to let guys pitch more than 50 or so innings than they did the year before.....and before you know it...we have the Bard rules.....I will try and be optimistic and hope for the best. 
    Posted by tomnev


    no no no!  Comparing Joba's body to Bard's is way off!   30 starts, avg. of 6 per start???  He can easily throw 180 + innings per season.  Huge body w long arms!  Completely different body types!  The Joba rules are not applicable!  You're thinking 75 innings plus 50????  125 innings max as a starter???  Therefore the kid simply can't do it????   Wrong!  No offense!  but, I think this analysis doesn't work!  This is not a fragile big kid, who needs to throw 98mph every pitch!  If he is coached to mix his pitches, which he will absolutely need to do to survive in this league (keeping hitters off balance) he can easily be a 180+ inning starter next year.  That big long body, with the big long arms can handle the load!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    I hate when I guy who throws 98 MPH goes to a slider, cutter or change up.

    At 98 MPH you are very tough to hit.  But go to a Slider, Cutter or Change and now you are 88 to 92 - now you are very average; especially on the change up unless it has movement like Pedro's (which was a one in a million change up)

    Therefore, his secondary pitches should be the curve (which he has) and a splitter - he needs to develop a splitter otherwise he won't make it as a starter.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    It's a gamble, I think everyone sees that, obvious there is difference in you pitch selection when you have to go 6+ as opposed to 1 inning.  If Bard succeeds in this role he is MUCH more valuable (as if he already wasn't)  I've been 50/50 on liking this move, but now that it seems all but certain I'm cautiously excited to see how well he does. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    In Response to Re: Bard as a starter:
    I hate when I guy who throws 98 MPH goes to a slider, cutter or change up. At 98 MPH you are very tough to hit.  But go to a Slider, Cutter or Change and now you are 88 to 92 - now you are very average; especially on the change up unless it has movement like Pedro's (which was a one in a million change up) Therefore, his secondary pitches should be the curve (which he has) and a splitter - he needs to develop a splitter otherwise he won't make it as a starter.
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Totally agree with you Andrewmitch!  I would have him work with Schilling on that the split!  His curveball is a pretty devastating pitch when he's on, but the splitter would be the perfect pitch for him if he is able to develop it!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sandylolead. Show sandylolead's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    In Response to Bard as a starter:
    Sounds like a good idea, but a I have a couple of questions/concerns.  First What if Bard stinks as a starter?  Who replaces him in the rotation? Second, if Bard is a decent starter, what is his innings limit.  He has not pitched more that 75 innings in a season.  What happens when he hits that limit?  Who replaces him in the rotation. Does he throw 75 innings as a starter and then go to the pen for the second half of the season?  Part of me worries that Bard ends up like Joba in New York..
    Posted by lardin

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sandylolead. Show sandylolead's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    They need Paul Maholm. Good lefty who never had any run support un Pittsburg.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Bard as a starter

    The Sox have the perfect pitching coach to help the transition.  And those who worry about Bard's minor league stats as a starter, they were more due to the attempt by the Sox to change his delivery than they were to his inability as a starter.  Give the kid a chance; he has a fluid delivery and generates a lot of ball speed with seemingly little effort.  That is both good for avoiding injury as well as deceiving to the batter. 

    I have faith that he will become a very good #2 or #3 starter in a year or two and that is much more valuable than pitching 75 innings a year.  But even if he pitches to a 4.50 - 5.00 ERA next year, he is an improvement over what the Sox got in the #5 slot last season, and he costs next to nothing.  This is a much better investment on the part of the Sox than giving 1 - 2 million in the hopes that Brandon Webb recovers and pitches effectively, for instance.
     
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