Bard = Choke City

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]Watch him pitch. If you know anything about baseball, his arm slot is lower than normal and has been that way for a month now.  He's got a dead arm and should not be used. Terry?
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]
    interesting observation..I wondered about a dead arm for him as well as Albers
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bad-Scene-. Show Bad-Scene-'s posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    David Robertson just worked out of a jam
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fgug. Show fgug's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    Bard in an over rated baby with a 98 mph fast ball that just eluded him. Remember Steve blass for the Pirates. he lived here in NW connecticut. His "stuff" left him and he NEVER got it back. Chuck Knoblauch? Even saltalamachia had the problem last year.
    Bard should be on a very short leash right now, but instead, Francona leaves him in to choke . What does a 2-8 record say? its not just a recent problem, This has benn going on all year because otherwise his record would be 8-2. It says that he has come in with a lead, or a tie, and has not performed well all year. What does Francona do? Status quo, just leave him in. Why can't Papelbon pitch two innings when right now? he is pitching about 9 pitches to get through an inning. Francona will lose this lead, and NOBODY will do anything about it
    I want him out of Boston. get someone who can SEE when a pitcher is struggling.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]Wow - the guy has pitched in 64 games this season (so far) and blown 4 save opportunities and suddenly he's called a choker?  The guys been worked harder than any other reliever. Maybe, just maybe he's got a nagging injury and he's trying to figure out how to play through it.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    And if he has a nagging injury then tell the team so that he doesn't continue to blow games. It's called being selfish. He's 2-9 with 5 blown saves.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    There is clearly something wrong with his mechanics. Looks like he throwing across his body more instead of finishing down by his left knee.
    Time to break out some video.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    Bard has struggled recently, but there can be no question he has been a huge part of one key stat:  the Sox were about the best in MLB this hanging onto to a lead in the 7th inning or later.  Pap has been great as the closer, but rarely pitched before the 9th inning.  It was Bard who pitched not only the 8th inning but sometimes the 7th or part of the 7th.  It was Bard who consistently had the lowest ERA in the bullpen and often on the team (he and Beckett were neck and neck).  It was Bard who Francona would send in to bail the Sox out with the bases loaded and no outs or one out or two outs. 

    They have been careful about overusing, so I don't think he's tired.  He says it's something mechanical that has happened before. 

    The OP is a stinkin', nasty bum rap.

    Ask yourselves this:  if not Bard, who?  There is no one comparable in the bullpen. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City : Like Woodward and Bernstein in the parking garage, you're missing the overall. Today's loss itself isn't that important, especially since the O's just helped us out. The Sox will be in the playoffs as the wild card. What is important is that it's mid-September and Daniel Bard can't throw a strike. If Daniel Bard isn't Daniel Bard, our stay in the playoffs will be very brief.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    It isn't just the Jays to worry about the Los Angeles Angels are only 5 games behind the Red Sox in the loss column and they are very hot. Even if the Sox split with Tampa, LA could gain 2 games.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pennasoxfan67. Show pennasoxfan67's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City : If he had the inclination he'd throw the curve for a strike???  Right. The guys has a couple of bad outings after being outstanding for most of the season and he gets ragged. "8 losses in 65 innning pitched good".  Not if you're a starter, but as a reliever, someone that has appeared in 63 games this season, I'd say it's very good.  Quick - which pitcher for the Red Sox leads the teams in HOLDS?  Bard. 
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]
     
    Bard also leads the league in relief losses, and is 3rd or 4th in blown saves (and he's not even the closer, so he gets fewer save ops).  Bottom line:  (Quick!) would you leave him in after he walks the 1st guy he faces, the way he's done the last 4/5 times he's pitched?  Terry obviously thinks Bard's self esteem is more important than wins...and maybe he's right...I'm not a major league manager....but if TB catches us, the bad losses in August and Sept (hell, all year) are going to look pretty awful versus the player's self esteem.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City : interesting observation..I wondered about a dead arm for him as well as Albers
    Posted by DirtDawgSox[/QUOTE]

    From what I have seen, my guess is dead arm too, and he seems like the silent, determined type who would tend not to confess it to his manager, but does anyone else think that the RS pitching staff in general is short on talent/confidence when it comes to a change-up/cutter? (Seems to me that is what Bard really needs and what has made Paps far more effective this year than last.) Obviously, the cutter is the killer pitch for Rivera, and many great pitchers like Pedro and Maddox have relied on their change-ups as "out" pitches, especially when they need a ground ball double play. Just doesn't seem to me our pitchers have/utilize that weapon enough (I wonder for example, how many ground ball double plays they have induced this season vs. rest of the league), and I wonder if that is a reflection of the pitching coach's general philosophy, or whether we just have a stable of pitchers who never thought it was an important pitch to cultivate.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City : It isn't just the Jays to worry about the Los Angeles Angels are only 5 games behind the Red Sox in the loss column and they are very hot. Even if the Sox split with Tampa, LA could gain 2 games.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]
    OK, fine, but the point is we're going nowhere unless Daniel Bard gets his groove back.
    And all these people who "want Bard out of Boston" are probably the same who wanted Papelbon (or "Papelbum," as they so cleverly called him) out a year ago. Where would we be without that guy?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City :   Bard also leads the league in relief losses, and is 3rd or 4th in blown saves (and he's not even the closer, so he gets fewer save ops).  Bottom line:  (Quick!) would you leave him in after he walks the 1st guy he faces, the way he's done the last 4/5 times he's pitched?  Terry obviously thinks Bard's self esteem is more important than wins...and maybe he's right...I'm not a major league manager....but if TB catches us, the bad losses in August and Sept (hell, all year) are going to look pretty awful versus the player's self esteem.
    Posted by pennasoxfan67[/QUOTE]

    What you mean to say, is that Francona hopes against hope that trotting him out there will afford him the key opportunity to regain his self-esteem, even though a thoughtful manager might begin to wonder whether continuing to trot him out there in the 8th when the game on the line, when clearly he is not the same pitcher he was in July, might end up hurting his confidence, as he bombs game after game. One of the big issues I have with Francona is this notion that every opportunity to pitch, hit, whatever, is the same, and that each offers a player the chance to regain his confidence, whereas when a player is really struggling (and perhaps even hurt), that is simply not the case (and can even do a player's confidence further damage).
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    Bard=Serious arm fatigue

    When a guy's velocity is down 2-3 MPH and his command is nonexistent he's really fatigued!  He needs a few days off.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

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    Maybe the reason Francona continues to trot Bard out there is because he doesn't have any other options.  Bard is tired or hurt.  A guy suddenly doesn't fall off the cliff because of a lack of confidence.  He's tired or hurt and it's causing to slightly alter his motion just enough to make him less effective.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    Bar has about 3-4 bad games out of 64. The opps have a .559 OPS "Late and Close" and a .629 OPS in high leverage situations vs Bard.
    (.652 vs Yanks and .598 vs TB)

    Nobody can be perfect every game.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]But both times he blew it when he started off putting men on base for no reason. Why the world he have to put men on bases when his team was up by 3 runs last week and 2 runs today.   Difference between him and among other fast ball pitchers, he doesnt give up too many hits.  He just walked too many.  He just need to get his confidence with his pitches!! He ll be fine during the post season.  Once Boston make into the playoff, Tito is going to rest him often!!
    Posted by GoUconn13[/QUOTE]

    Post Season? The Rays and Angels are still hanging around and are playing much better. This four game series may determine if we make it. Bard will be anximportant part in this goal. Ace is the only other option.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City : What you mean to say, is that Francona hopes against hope that trotting him out there will afford him the key opportunity to regain his self-esteem, even though a thoughtful manager might begin to wonder whether continuing to trot him out there in the 8th when the game on the line, when clearly he is not the same pitcher he was in July, might end up hurting his confidence, as he bombs game after game. One of the big issues I have with Francona is this notion that every opportunity to pitch, hit, whatever, is the same, and that each offers a player the chance to regain his confidence, whereas when a player is really struggling (and perhaps even hurt), that is simply not the case (and can even do a player's confidence further damage).
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    BINGO. It will only take him three more times to realize it. Just like it took him a month to realize it with Albers.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    He's very, very good, and he's gonna be a closer, here or somewhere else.  I hope it's herre.  What a bunch of fickle, panicked, whining, unrealistic, impatient, sky-is-falling turncoat jerks some people are.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OhEFFU. Show OhEFFU's posts

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    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City : BINGO. It will only take him three more times to realize it. Just like it took him a month to realize it with Albers.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    Nah, nope, makes no sense.  Do you ever think that about some players and then it turns out they in fact go on to do OK, i.e. they recover, and in RETROSPECT (which is where all this second-guessing BS comes from) it was the right thing to do to stay with them, not make them nervous about their spot, let them work it our, etc?  I'll answer for you - yes, it does.  And in those cases, there is no one posting to asay they had it wrong.  Bard will be OK, everybody stop b!tching and panicking...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    Tito cannot be accused of having a fast hook.  I think anybody who saw Bard implode the last time was getting ill watching him miss the plate yesterday, you knew what was coming.  We need Bard to be great, I guess you have to let hmi work it out.

    But no way Bard is the closer of the future.  Paps has his guns loaded, sign him, give him his money. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeDizzle. Show MikeDizzle's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    I think it comes down to the fact that he is blowing games when it matters, you can't blow these types of games this late in the season. You have a 2 run lead, you walk the first two and set yourself up for failure. They were pitches that weren't even close, and you are coming up on a crucial series against the team that is in your rearview. This is not what management needs to see when trying to promote you to the closers role. You blew games against in september when it matters most, and the day before the rays when you could have gained ground unacceptable.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]I think it comes down to the fact that he is blowing games when it matters, you can't blow these types of games this late in the season. You have a 2 run lead, you walk the first two and set yourself up for failure. They were pitches that weren't even close, and you are coming up on a crucial series against the team that is in your rearview. This is not what management needs to see when trying to promote you to the closers role. You blew games against in september when it matters most, and the day before the rays when you could have gained ground unacceptable.
    Posted by MikeDizzle[/QUOTE]

    Remy and Orsillo said it all. They said that his location is off and it might be a confidence problem.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    I still expect Bard to be money for the Sox as the regular season winds down and, hopefully, in the playoffs, should they make it.  Yes, his recent meltdowns have been bad:  magnified by the importance of these games.  But, it strikes me more as a hiccup in mechanics and/or confidence.  Prior to this short stretch, he was the best set-up guy in the AL, if not all the majors, for the entire season to that point.  And, its not dead-arm.  he's still clocking upper 90s.  He just isn't throwing strikes with his breaking stuff, and, i don't care if you throw 105:  if a major leagues hitter KNOWS the heat is coming because you can't locate anything else, well, you better have some serious movement on it.  Bard has never had the kind of movement on his cheese the way Papelbon does.  He needs his secondaries working.  Right now they are not.  But, I feel very confident that he will get it back in short order.  All this Choke City stuff is nonsense.  I have said before, and still believe, that he is not ready yet to inherent any closer role.  But, for this year, he is still of utmost value in the set-up role.  If Tito blew it in his couple melt-downs, it was because he understood that Bard is his guy in that situation and wanted to give him the opportunity toi fail or succeed.  Tough spot for a manager there, when your heretofore lights-out, reliable set-up guy implodes.  Yes, he should have had Papelbon up and ready earlier in both of his big ones (not counting the third blown hold, as that was not all his fault), but, bottom line, Bard didn't do what they need him to do.  It is what it is.  There is no better option going forward.  So, he HAS to work it out.  Bobby Jenks is checked into the mayo clinic and Aceves can't pitch every relief inning and The BP Pitcher Formerly Known As Matt Albers is not reliable.  So, gotta give the ball to Danny Boy.  Its how the model was constructed and, in my eyes, would be foolish to abandon at this point.  Guys struggle.  Even the best.  But, the best turn it around quicker than the lesser.  My money is on Bard pulling it together this weekend.
     
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    Re: Bard = Choke City

    Bard as the closer next year is very, very scary and will not work out.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Bard = Choke City

    In Response to Re: Bard = Choke City:
    [QUOTE]Bar has about 3-4 bad games out of 64. The opps have a .559 OPS "Late and Close" and a .629 OPS in high leverage situations vs Bard. (.652 vs Yanks and .598 vs TB) Nobody can be perfect every game.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
     The problem I have with your analysis is that you are looking at the entire year. The problem didn't exist earlier in the season, when he was terrific, so those stats are irrelevant. The problem has arisen in the last several weeks during which time he has been horrible. The "nobody can be perfect every game" quote seems bizarre in light of how badly he has pitched recently, losing 3 games in the last week.
     
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