Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
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Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 10:44 PM EDT
- fourrings
- Posts: 1072
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 7/31/2012
Stop with the worrying about the baserunners its killing you!!!!!!! -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 10:58 PM EDT
- freediro
- Posts: 5503
- First: 9/13/2009
- Last: 5/20/2013
Where is our pitching coach, what is he doing with these guys on the off days? -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 11:00 PM EDT
- RSF4Life234
- Posts: 675
- First: 10/9/2009
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More like where is Bobby v, i have never seen so many starters left in when they have nothing left in the tank as i have this year. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 11:02 PM EDT
- EnchiladaT
- Posts: 3024
- First: 3/28/2012
- Last: 3/13/2013
Tito's fault. He babied the staff and made them soft. Valentine is doing the right thing. They will all be better for it. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 11:09 PM EDT
- fourrings
- Posts: 1072
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 7/31/2012
RSF....Bard is outta gas after 86 pitches???? -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 11:18 PM EDT
- fivekatz
- Posts: 5134
- First: 9/18/2009
- Last: 8/26/2012
In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:RSF....Bard is outta gas after 86 pitches????Yes! He is a guy who until this year last started in A ball in Greenville in 2007. You get 7 complete from Bard, IMO you ask the BP to get 6 outs with a clean slate.
Posted by fourrings
Now perhaps it is a bit harder to expect that when the BP is what it is than it was the RS had Bard and Paplebon to get those last 6 outs but Bard isn't a 200 IP horse, not yet. This young man has never pitched over 102 innings in pro or NCAA ball. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/8/2012 11:20 PM EDT
- notin
- Posts: 8401
- First: 9/2/2006
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In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:RSF....Bard is outta gas after 86 pitches????
Posted by fourrings
This is his fifth career start.
Even the Daniel Bard on your XBox would be gassed after 6 innings... -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 12:09 AM EDT
- expitch
- Posts: 2758
- First: 3/2/2011
- Last: 9/6/2012
In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;; : This is his fifth career start. Even the Daniel Bard on your XBox would be gassed after 6 innings...
Posted by notinNonsense. The man wasn't even gassed pitching to the first batter in the eighth.Unless you mean gas in the brain. He lost his concentration. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 12:18 AM EDT
- Schumpeters-Ghost
- Posts: 4552
- First: 12/13/2008
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7 innings is more than enough. If you have a set up man (Aceves) and a closer (NOPE).
They need to call Pittsburgh ASAP -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 12:26 AM EDT
- expitch
- Posts: 2758
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In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;; : Yes! He is a guy who until this year last started in A ball in Greenville in 2007. You get 7 complete from Bard, IMO you ask the BP to get 6 outs with a clean slate. Now perhaps it is a bit harder to expect that when the BP is what it is than it was the RS had Bard and Paplebon to get those last 6 outs but Bard isn't a 200 IP horse, not yet. This young man has never pitched over 102 innings in pro or NCAA ball.
Posted by fivekatzSorry, but all those numbers don't amount to a hill of beans in relation to what happened on the field tonight. Or didn't you notice that Bard had plenty left in his arm ( well short of 102 innings ) when he started the eighth? He lost it between the ears. You make a lot of sense most of the time -- but not when you talk about pitching. In my opinion. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 12:54 AM EDT
- roberr48
- Posts: 553
- First: 6/24/2008
- Last: 12/9/2012
In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;; : Sorry, but all those numbers don't amount to a hill of beans in relation to what happened on the field tonight. Or didn't you notice that Bard had plenty left in his arm ( well short of 102 innings ) when he started the eighth? He lost it between the ears. You make a lot of sense most of the time -- but not when you talk about pitching. In my opinion.
Posted by expitch
You nailed it....With Bard it is between the ears..He appears to not really undertstand the art of pitching..(what works & what doesn't)...He gets Stupid Uptight with guys on base. I do not have the patience to watch him & Doubront take Pitching 101 classes, in games that count.....I know Eck was losing his mind with Bard throwing to 1st with no results other than balks, walks, & totally losing his concentrtation & release point........ -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 2:41 AM EDT
- expitch
- Posts: 2758
- First: 3/2/2011
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In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;; : You nailed it....With Bard it is between the ears..He appears to not really undertstand the art of pitching..(what works & what doesn't)...He gets Stupid Uptight with guys on base. I do not have the patience to watch him & Doubront take Pitching 101 classes, in games that count.....I know Eck was losing his mind with Bard throwing to 1st with no results other than balks, walks, & totally losing his concentrtation & release point........
Posted by roberr48He had enough trouble finding a release point early in the game. He never found it in the eighth.I know that Moon ( and others ) expressed deep reservations about shifting Bard from the pen to the rotation, and also expressed concern that if Bard does not cut it in the rotation he might not easily slide back into the pen. I expect that he'll get another chance to start. Maybe more than one. Same with Buchholz. But Bard, at the very least, needs a woodshed session on how to pitch to p and j hitters leading off the eighth when you have a one run-lead on the road. It's fine to baby pitchers along and support their development, and all that, but there are also times when they need to be taken by the ears, just so there is an echo in those ears the next time the situation arises. If the echo rattles them, they shouldn't be on the mound. That is no place for faint hearts.I'm not saying that Bard has a faint heart, just that he needs to be challenged nose to nose and then tested. Whether he belongs in the rotation needs to be decided sooner than later. It's far from too late. The Sox can still be in this thing.It's curious that people sitting at their computers and armed with numbers purport to know better than Valentine, McClure, and probably Shoppach when a pitcher is gassed, or even when a pitcher should be pushed for good reasons.( Like the time that Tito agreed with Valentine that Bard should have pitched to Longoria. ) Book soldiers have their uses, but only when they pay careful attention to reports from the front. Or from people who've been at the front.Off topic a bit, but recall that McNamara and his numbers brigades -- the "whiz kids" -- were running the Vietnam War from desks in Washington. Enough said, because that topic can still set people off. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 2:52 AM EDT
- expitch
- Posts: 2758
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- Last: 9/6/2012
In short, some people are saying, in effect, "According to MY calculations, Bard should be gassed, or even if not really gassed, still should not be sent out for the eighth." Many, many miles from the park, and from all the minds and bodies involved.Imagine. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 4:37 AM EDT
- tom-uk
- Posts: 1902
- First: 8/13/2010
- Last: 5/20/2013
Whether it was mental or physical fatigue he should have been pulled. He has struggled with poor finishes this year. The first batter should have been the last or not faced at all.vs TB 7th inning 2 outs and then BB, single, BB, BB then pulledvs Oak 6th inning: single, out, double, double, HBP, double then pulledvs Tor 6th inning: BB, single then pulledvs CHW 7th inning clean, then pulled -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 5:18 AM EDT
- expitch
- Posts: 2758
- First: 3/2/2011
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In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:Whether it was mental or physical fatigue he should have been pulled. He has struggled with poor finishes this year. The first batter should have been the last or not faced at all. vs TB 7th inning 2 outs and then BB, single, BB, BB then pulled vs Oak 6th inning: single, out, double, double, HBP, double then pulled vs Tor 6th inning: BB, single then pulled vs CHW 7th inning clean, then pulled
Posted by tom-ukHistory does not always bear on the reality of the moment. Situations in baseball, as in life, can define themselves without reference to the past. Bard thought he could finish. Valentine thought he could finish. Both of them were more than familiar with his history. For good reason, they thought he was turning a page. They were there. They saw what they saw and felt what they felt.Bard checked out between the ears. The first two batters in the eighth had gone 0 for 6 against him. That was the immediate history in the game. He walked them both. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 6:40 AM EDT
- jackbu
- Posts: 2944
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In response to "Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;":More like where is Bobby v, i have never seen so many starters left in when they have nothing left in the tank as i have this year. Posted by RSF4Life234Gee, I guess you have more faith in the pen, then most. Too bad ortiz didn't do better the 1-5. A homer this month from Adrian would help. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 8:54 AM EDT
- tom-uk
- Posts: 1902
- First: 8/13/2010
- Last: 5/20/2013
In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;:In Response to Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;; : History does not always bear on the reality of the moment. Situations in baseball, as in life, can define themselves without reference to the past. Bard thought he could finish. Valentine thought he could finish. Both of them were more than familiar with his history. For good reason, they thought he was turning a page. They were there. They saw what they saw and felt what they felt. Bard checked out between the ears. The first two batters in the eighth had gone 0 for 6 against him. That was the immediate history in the game. He walked them both.
Posted by expitchI would have no problem with it if he had been starting for a long stretch, as a newbie I feel BV should have taken the cautious approach.It may not have been physical, but mentally he may not have been right. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 8:58 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34442
- First: 9/27/2005
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I know that Moon ( and others ) expressed deep reservations about shifting Bard from the pen to the rotation, and also expressed concern that if Bard does not cut it in the rotation he might not easily slide back into the pen. I expect that he'll get another chance to start. Maybe more than one. -expitchI agree, and now that Bard is "stretched out", I'm not for moving him back to the pen unless he has failed as a starter after 12-15 starts. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 9:01 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34442
- First: 9/27/2005
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Whether it was mental or physical fatigue he should have been pulled. He has struggled with poor finishes this year. The first batter should have been the last or not faced at all.vs TB 7th inning 2 outs and then BB, single, BB, BB then pulledvs Oak 6th inning: single, out, double, double, HBP, double then pulledvs Tor 6th inning: BB, single then pulledvs CHW 7th inning clean, then pulledI have actually been surprised they have left Bard in as long as they have. I thought they'd break him in slowly, especially since they know he will not give them 180+ IP no matter how well he does as a starter. I expected 4 IP, then 5, 5, 5, 6, 6 6, then maybe 7. Not having Aceves in long relief hurts that idea, but messing Bard up should be avoided at all costs. The kid can pitch. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 9:55 AM EDT
- DirtyWaterLover
- Posts: 7637
- First: 6/9/2008
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Good thing they spent so much time working on holding runners in ST.
That was a nice HR that Albers gave up last night. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 10:07 AM EDT
- MadMc44
- Posts: 2553
- First: 12/13/2008
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Bard and Buch though different in many ways use thinking of base runners as a means of delaying the most important issue, working on the batter.Dyson was a huge distraction in the 8 th--with a one run lead and the lefty Gordon I think you make the move to a lefty, you have three, Morales, Hill and Miller. Bard would leave, can't lose the game, and with the exception of his meltdown in the second inning had pitched well.As Eck said it's a learning experience.I was actually thinking BV might bring Aceves in for a two inning save with two on and no outs in the 8 th. Oh well everyone's learning. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 10:14 AM EDT
- Hammah29r2
- Posts: 1946
- First: 10/27/2010
- Last: 5/21/2013
well, maybe if your a KC fan it was Dirty! I wanted to throw my shoe thru the fkn TV screen.
ya know what amazes me? we're only 6.5 back and all the top end teams in our division are not really playing that well. we can dig ourselves outta this hole if we could only string a bunch of W's together. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 10:18 AM EDT
- DirtyWaterLover
- Posts: 7637
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Really, I am so glad they spent so much time working on holding runners in ST. It makes so much sense now. That was the only thing between an extremely bad pitching staff and a terrible pitching staff.
It's not like that time could have been better spent on mechanics or anything.
Message to Bobby V. Sometimes in a close game, in late innings, even when the pitch count is relatively low, it's a good idea to pull the pitcher if he seems to be losing his concentration.
But then again, if the BP is going to serve up a meatball, what difference does it make.
Eck has perfect timing. On the pitch just before the bomb, Eck says that Matt Albers is looking for a groundball. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 10:22 AM EDT
- Drewski5
- Posts: 6361
- First: 1/20/2009
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Silver lining alert:
If it's a mental issue, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It means that he's underperforming and his upside is considerably better than what we are currently seeing. People beat mental issues every year (Colon, Greinke, Hamilton). Bard may beat his mental issue this year.
We are going to need a quality #3 starter should we make the playoffs. And if Bardconquers his mental issue, he'd be one heck of a #3 starter.
In summary: Bard is more likely to turn into an effective #3 starter than anyone else in the system. And considering how badly we need a #3 starter right now, he should be given every opportunity to get over any hurdle he comes across.
Regarding Bard turning into an effective #3, I feel that he is almost there. -
Re: Bard, what the phuc are u doing????;;
posted at 5/9/2012 10:23 AM EDT
- Hammah29r2
- Posts: 1946
- First: 10/27/2010
- Last: 5/21/2013
yeah I heard him say that. problem was the blast that kid hit wasn't even in the strike zone. I just hope that Lester can get us going back on track tonite ya know?we know we got the sticks, we just need for some good reliable pitching.