1. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 8:31 AM EDT

     Toronto's Jose Bautista has hit 80 HR's in the last year and a half, The Yanks Curtis Granderson has hit 35 in the last 5 months of competion virtually matching Bautista's pace. Both players had shown some signs of power in their past, Bautista with 16  in 2006 and Granderson with 30 in 2009. What changed for both of them was their swing. The results have been Ruthian. Listening to the Astro's broadcasters yesterday, they mentioned Batting coach Dave Magadan claiming Ellsbury has more raw power than anyone else on the team. They commented that Mags must have not been watching batting practice with Big Papi and Adrian Gonzales...perhaps Magadan sees something that isn't available to the rest of us. Could the next breakout player be Ellsbury? Is there a swing change waiting to develop him into something greater?
     Given the Bautista/Grandersn metamorphasis, and given the new dominance of pitching, are we on the verge of a technical based hitting revolution? One in which torque is the fundamental unit of power? Golfers already stress the hip rotation, Ted Williams' video clips show the hips turning first and then the hands following through.
     Bagwell was one of the announcers, and he was a wrist/arm type swinger, he played with Magadan, which means he should know that Magadan knows something about hitting, he acted like Magadan was uninformed. What purpose would Magadan have in saying something publically that he didn't really believe?
     The evidence points to Magadan being right, and Bagwell being out of the loop.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RLBurnside. Show RLBurnside's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 8:56 AM EDT

    Regarding Bautista and Granderson, I'm not buying it.  I think we'll find out later there is a new form of cheating going on.  When it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is usually a duck.  In particular, Bautista's numbers stick out like a huge anomaly.  Imagine that steroids were not discovered until 2010, then one player discovered them.  That's what Bautista's numbers look like.  Only it's not steroids, it's something else.
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:19 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    Regarding Bautista and Granderson, I'm not buying it.  I think we'll find out later there is a new form of cheating going on.  When it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is usually a duck.  In particular, Bautista's numbers stick out like a huge anomaly.  Imagine that steroids were not discovered until 2010, then one player discovered them.  That's what Bautista's numbers look like.  Only it's not steroids, it's something else.
    Posted by RLBurnside


      Perhaps, watch the Youtube videos about his new approach to get the other side of the story. When I played, I was not particulary big or even strong, but I could hit it a long way though.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:58 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    Regarding Bautista and Granderson, I'm not buying it.  I think we'll find out later there is a new form of cheating going on.  When it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is usually a duck.  In particular, Bautista's numbers stick out like a huge anomaly.  Imagine that steroids were not discovered until 2010, then one player discovered them.  That's what Bautista's numbers look like.  Only it's not steroids, it's something else.
    Posted by RLBurnside


    What a bunch of crock.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:06 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    Regarding Bautista and Granderson, I'm not buying it.  I think we'll find out later there is a new form of cheating going on.  When it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is usually a duck.  In particular, Bautista's numbers stick out like a huge anomaly.  Imagine that steroids were not discovered until 2010, then one player discovered them.  That's what Bautista's numbers look like.  Only it's not steroids, it's something else.
    Posted by RLBurnside


    I think you hit this right on the point.      My thought is we still have a lot of cheaters in baseball.  There will always be some form of enhancement drug out there as an alternative to what major league officials call illegal.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:10 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    Regarding Bautista and Granderson, I'm not buying it.  I think we'll find out later there is a new form of cheating going on.  When it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is usually a duck.  In particular, Bautista's numbers stick out like a huge anomaly.  Imagine that steroids were not discovered until 2010, then one player discovered them.  That's what Bautista's numbers look like.  Only it's not steroids, it's something else.
    Posted by RLBurnside


    Even if Bautista is doing something new, that does not necessarily make it cheating.  After all, what if the differecne is Bautista had, say, LASIK surgery.  Would that make him a cheater?  (BTW, Bautista started his surge before 2010.)

    I doubt he is using steroids.  Not only is he tested alot and has not bulked up at all, but as you say, his improvement is marked.  As we have a fairly decent baseline for what steroids do, and Bautista does not even fit into that category.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:18 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    Regarding Bautista and Granderson, I'm not buying it.  I think we'll find out later there is a new form of cheating going on.  When it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is usually a duck.  In particular, Bautista's numbers stick out like a huge anomaly.  Imagine that steroids were not discovered until 2010, then one player discovered them.  That's what Bautista's numbers look like.  Only it's not steroids, it's something else.
    Posted by RLBurnside



    More nonsense. Bautista and Granderson aren't cheating...At least not any more than Big Papi is.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:19 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury : Even if Bautista is doing something new, that does not necessarily make it cheating.  After all, what if the differecne is Bautista had, say, LASIK surgery.  Would that make him a cheater?  (BTW, Bautista started his surge before 2010.) I doubt he is using steroids.  Not only is he tested alot and has not bulked up at all, but as you say, his improvement is marked.  As we have a fairly decent baseline for what steroids do, and Bautista does not even fit into that category.
    Posted by notin


    Neither has Granderson, who, BTW, has cooled off some; he was projected to hit 40 HRs in YS, and that is about where he's headed.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxcorpseman. Show redsoxcorpseman's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 7:18 PM EDT

    Ellsbury = crooked elbowed short arm reverse pivot
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 7:25 PM EDT

    And All-Star.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 8:24 PM EDT

    For those of you who do not think Bautista is on something, may I remind you that in the history of baseball there are only 2-3 players who have ever gone from zero to hero at this level of magnitude EVER. It is EXTREMELY likely that it is chemical enhanced. 

    Look at all of his DR compatriots who suddenly emerged as some of the leading power hitters in baseball ( some appear to have started with steroids in HS ). I'm not saying all are on some sort of chemical enhancement of course but considering that steroids are still legal in the DR, and most of them either went to or still go to the same GYM in Santo Domingo, all of these guys are under suspicion:

    Arod
    Manny
    Ortiz
    Hanley
    Sosa
    I could easily list 10 more.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:03 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    For those of you who do not think Bautista is on something, may I remind you that in the history of baseball there are only 2-3 players who have ever gone from zero to hero at this level of magnitude EVER. It is EXTREMELY likely that it is chemical enhanced.  Look at all of his DR compatriots who suddenly emerged as some of the leading power hitters in baseball ( some appear to have started with steroids in HS ). I'm not saying all are on some sort of chemical enhancement of course but considering that steroids are still legal in the DR, and most of them either went to or still go to the same GYM in Santo Domingo, all of these guys are under suspicion: Arod Manny Ortiz Hanley Sosa I could easily list 10 more.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom

     Yaz is one of them, averaged 16 HR for his first 6 full seasons, then launched 44.
    Do you think the swing can make a difference?
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prknsdnld. Show prknsdnld's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:07 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury :  Yaz is one of them, averaged 16 HR for his first 6 full seasons, then launched 44. Do you think the swing can make a difference?
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20

     Course not. Steroids.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:08 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    For those of you who do not think Bautista is on something, may I remind you that in the history of baseball there are only 2-3 players who have ever gone from zero to hero at this level of magnitude EVER. It is EXTREMELY likely that it is chemical enhanced.  Look at all of his DR compatriots who suddenly emerged as some of the leading power hitters in baseball ( some appear to have started with steroids in HS ). I'm not saying all are on some sort of chemical enhancement of course but considering that steroids are still legal in the DR, and most of them either went to or still go to the same GYM in Santo Domingo, all of these guys are under suspicion: Arod Manny Ortiz Hanley Sosa I could easily list 10 more.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    You forgot Yaz who never hit more than 20 HRs in a season who all of a suddent hit 44 the year after hitting 16 and then hit 40 again in 69 and 70. That sneak Yaz poised as the son of a Polish potato farmer but actual was from the DR.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:32 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury : You forgot Yaz who never hit more than 20 HRs in a season who all of a suddent hit 44 the year after hitting 16 and then hit 40 again in 69 and 70. That sneak Yaz poised as the son of a Polish potato farmer but actual was from the DR.
    Posted by fivekatz


     5K, I am surprised that no one has commented on Magadan's opinion of Ells vs. his peers. Remember how Ellis Burks started at the bottom of the order, moved to the lead off-spot and later on became a middle of the order guy? Will this be the same path for Jacoby? What is Magadan talking about? Or why would he hype Ellsbury?
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 9:52 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    Ellsbury = crooked elbowed short arm reverse pivot
    Posted by redsoxcorpseman


    Ellsbury = All-Star.
    Softlaw = crooked ancestry and reverse lobotomy pivot.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:04 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury :  5K, I am surprised that no one has commented on Magadan's opinion of Ells vs. his peers. Remember how Ellis Burks started at the bottom of the order, moved to the lead off-spot and later on became a middle of the order guy? Will this be the same path for Jacoby? What is Magadan talking about? Or why would he hype Ellsbury?
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20


    On Yaz: he hired a personal trainer in'66 and was in marine mode. Rick Miller talked about it, saying he couldn't take three days of it. Yaz was processed!  In ST of '67, from the back, Yaz looked like a completely different player.
    Lynn did similar.

    That and weight shift/mechanical adjustments could explain Bautista. Granderson has a venue conducive to his swing. But more importantly, he isn't a sucker for the breaking stuff away as he once was.
    People like to point fingers of cheating without researching properly.

    As for Magadan/Bagwell, hitting coaches/players generally have differing view points. Magadan was not a power hitter.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bettersoftthanlaw. Show bettersoftthanlaw's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:09 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    For those of you who do not think Bautista is on something, may I remind you that in the history of baseball there are only 2-3 players who have ever gone from zero to hero at this level of magnitude EVER. It is EXTREMELY likely that it is chemical enhanced.  Look at all of his DR compatriots who suddenly emerged as some of the leading power hitters in baseball ( some appear to have started with steroids in HS ). I'm not saying all are on some sort of chemical enhancement of course but considering that steroids are still legal in the DR, and most of them either went to or still go to the same GYM in Santo Domingo, all of these guys are under suspicion: Arod Manny Ortiz Hanley Sosa I could easily list 10 more.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom

    Stop with the racist drivel. No poster has ever been wrong so many times as you.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prknsdnld. Show prknsdnld's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:17 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury : On Yaz: he hired a personal trainer in'66 and was in marine mode. Rick Miller talked about it, saying he couldn't take three days of it. Yaz was processed!  In ST of '67, from the back, Yaz looked like a completely different player. Lynn did similar. That and weight shift/mechanical adjustments could explain Bautista. Granderson has a venue conducive to his swing. But more importantly, he isn't a sucker for the breaking stuff away as he once was. People like to point fingers of cheating without researching properly. As for Magadan/Bagwell, hitting coaches/players generally have differing view points. Magadan was not a power hitter.
    Posted by harness

      Nonsense !! Steroids.
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulLaCourse. Show PaulLaCourse's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/3/2011 10:24 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury:
    In Response to Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury :  Yaz is one of them, averaged 16 HR for his first 6 full seasons, then launched 44. Do you think the swing can make a difference?
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20


    It had been noted that Yaz bulked up prior to 1967 by lifting weights.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxcorpseman. Show redsoxcorpseman's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/4/2011 3:45 AM EDT

    Wastefield was an All-star. LOL!

    Harness = idle minded idiot
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Bautista, Granderson and Ellsbury

    posted at 7/4/2011 4:15 AM EDT

    Careful corpse, you may lose your handle prematurely.
    A few hundred more posts and you'll have to come back from the grave again.