Beckett & Ellsbury

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    In Response to Beckett & Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Beckett  17M Ellsbury 10M   =  27M Cherry had better be busy trading this. The moment Beckett puts up two decent starts, the Red Sox should shut him down and get rid of him over the winter trade season. Unfortunately, Lacky will have to pitch in 2013, before the decision is made as to how much they'll have to write off.  Ortiz most surely, and correctly, will not be offered arbitration. The Red Sox should simply tell his agent that they will match any written one year offer sheet, which will likely be no more than 7 to 10 base.  The Red Sox will need to sign two veteran OF'ers, RH and LF, to one year middle to low single digit contracts. The Red Sox will need to acquire, via trade, one replacement starter for Beckett, who is high miles and typical MLBPA member goldbricking on his contract. They will need to do the standard 1 year low single digit MLB/ML contract deals for a 2 or 3 more starters. The Red Sox will need to acquire, via trade, one young top hitting talent RH OF'er. The Red Sox have two problems: Deadbeat and/or bum talent veterans Zero middle of the order elite RH talent (Middlebrooks may or may not be up to that job/role, but should be used to make the lower half of the lineup better than it has been) Crawford has to stay, for now, of course.  
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Also Aviles has clumsy, slow and wooden feet.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    Sox have no choice except to get rid of Ellsbury...he wouldn't stay in Boston for any amount and judging from this board his support is about 50/50.  The only mistake the Sox can make is in letting him get to FA without trading him.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    In Response to Beckett & Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Beckett  17M Ellsbury 10M   =  27M Cherry had better be busy trading this. The moment Beckett puts up two decent starts, the Red Sox should shut him down and get rid of him over the winter trade season. Unfortunately, Lacky will have to pitch in 2013, before the decision is made as to how much they'll have to write off.  Ortiz most surely, and correctly, will not be offered arbitration. The Red Sox should simply tell his agent that they will match any written one year offer sheet, which will likely be no more than 7 to 10 base.  The Red Sox will need to sign two veteran OF'ers, RH and LF, to one year middle to low single digit contracts. The Red Sox will need to acquire, via trade, one replacement starter for Beckett, who is high miles and typical MLBPA member goldbricking on his contract. They will need to do the standard 1 year low single digit MLB/ML contract deals for a 2 or 3 more starters. The Red Sox will need to acquire, via trade, one young top hitting talent RH OF'er. The Red Sox have two problems: Deadbeat and/or bum talent veterans Zero middle of the order elite RH talent (Middlebrooks may or may not be up to that job/role, but should be used to make the lower half of the lineup better than it has been) Crawford has to stay, for now, of course.  
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    Too much logic here. FO despite what virtually everyone sees is in Oz. I really would like to keep Ells because he and CC are starting to click. Papi is a goner unless as you suggest, they match any one year offer. Again too logical. Beckett must go and we beg that Lester finally gets it.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    You and I are mostly in agreement here softlaw. The one exception is I would not trade Beckett over the off season. His career stats suggest that he will have at least a good year next year. I'd wait on Beckett, and if he's having the year I expect he will, trade him at the deadline for prospects.Trading Beckett this offseason would mean selling on the guy when his trade value is at an all time low. Not exactly the smartest business model.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    Beckett  17M

    Ellsbury 10M   =  27M

    Cherry had better be busy trading this. The moment Beckett puts up two decent starts, the Red Sox should shut him down and get rid of him over the winter trade season.

    No issue here.

    Unfortunately, Lacky will have to pitch in 2013, before the decision is made as to how much they'll have to write off. 

    Sounds about right.

    Ortiz most surely, and correctly, will not be offered arbitration. The Red Sox should simply tell his agent that they will match any written one year offer sheet, which will likely be no more than 7 to 10 base. 

    You've flipped and flopped on Papi more than Obama & Romney combined.

    The Red Sox will need to sign two veteran OF'ers, RH and LF, to one year middle to low single digit contracts.

    We have enough lefty OF'ers even if Jake is traded.

    The Red Sox will need to acquire, via trade, one replacement starter for Beckett, who is high miles and typical MLBPA member goldbricking on his contract. They will need to do the standard 1 year low single digit MLB/ML contract deals for a 2 or 3 more starters.

    Classic softy. This like his "offer Chen, Wang, Oswalt or Bedard $1M" from last winter. 
    1) They all signed for at least 3 times what he suggested to offer.
    2) They all stunk this year.

    The Red Sox will need to acquire, via trade, one young top hitting talent RH OF'er.

    On top of the two we got in your above suggestion? That's 3 OF'ers added to a team that used 16 this year. Just cheking the count.

    The Red Sox have two problems:

    Deadbeat and/or bum talent veterans

    Zero middle of the order elite RH talent (Middlebrooks may or may not be up to that job/role, but should be used to make the lower half of the lineup better than it has been)

    Crawford has to stay, for now, of course. 

    So, our SPs will be playoff worthy with the trade of Beckett and a pick up of a marginal pitcher at best.

    Got it.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Beckett & Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]You and I are mostly in agreement here softlaw. The one exception is I would not trade Beckett over the off season. His career stats suggest that he will have at least a good year next year. I'd wait on Beckett, and if he's having the year I expect he will, trade him at the deadline for prospects.Trading Beckett this offseason would mean selling on the guy when his trade value is at an all time low. Not exactly the smartest business model.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    What irritates me most about trade ideas (not specific to this post, but in general) is the idiotic assumption that guys on the internet make about how the Sox can add value by selling Ells before he hits FA, for example.  It is so patronising!

    Love him or loathe him, Ells' value has 3 components:
    • 2 months in the 2012 season at a fully priced wage;
    • the full 2013 season at relatively modest wage given his 2012 status;
    • 1 draft pick (not two, can we agree on that, sandwich is history)
    Whether one thinks those parts are worth 5, 10 or 85 quatloos.....shouldn't one  assume ever other team makes the same/similar judgement?








     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    Els will stay ... for 20+ mil over 5-7 years.   He doesn't look worth anywhere near that anymore.   Beckett should be our 5th starter.   We  need an ace, obtained in trade, and Lester/Buck pitching like they can all season.  

    Rh slugger is esential.  Without it, Agon won't see any good pitches in 2013. 

    Trade Els, keep Beckett, move him down the line. 

    Lackey could come back strong, beer or not.  He is tough SOB, I can see him being our #3 starter.  I wouldn't write party boy off yet.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Beckett & Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]The one exception is I would not trade Beckett over the off season. His career stats suggest that he will have at least a good year next year. I'd wait on Beckett, and if he's having the year I expect he will, trade him at the deadline for prospects.Trading Beckett this offseason would mean selling on the guy when his trade value is at an all time low. Not exactly the smartest business model. Actually, if Beckett puts up a couple of good starts, his trade value won't go any higher by pitching a few months in 2013. He has migh miles and his reputation is cemented. He got his last big contract and he chose to goldbrick on it. Every GM will know what they are getting, a high miles aging guy who can be a middle of the rotation starter.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]Which tends to be a need at the trading deadline. And history says Beckett will be good next year. I'd still put him on waivers and trade him if the deal were right, but I wouldn't just give him away. Lackey on the other hand, I would give away if someone would take him and pay his salary. I think burrito is right about him. He's an Angels saboteur.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Beckett & Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Els will stay ... for 20+ mil over 5-7 years.   He doesn't look worth anywhere near that anymore.   Beckett should be our 5th starter.   We  need an ace, obtained in trade, and Lester/Buck pitching like they can all season.   Rh slugger is esential.  Without it, Agon won't see any good pitches in 2013.  Trade Els, keep Beckett, move him down the line.  Lackey could come back strong, beer or not.  He is tough SOB, I can see him being our #3 starter.  I wouldn't write party boy off yet.
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    This is the best, most common sense post in all of softy's "trade Ellsbury" thread.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    Andrew has always liked Lackey also. Of course, that is because he initially liked the signing and he painted himself into a corner. Andrew is primarily obsessed about his BDC forum identity and ego and everything else ( such as fandom" is secondary. It's all a forum game to Andrew, no character, no honesty. logic. or reason. Just FUN.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    It would make no sense to trade Ellsbury at this point.  We're still trying to win in 2013.  You'd have to way any offer against the #1 we'd get.  I'd say, at a minimum, it would have to be a top-25 prospect if we were to trade him.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury


    I think Ortiz's achilles problem is a forecast of additional physical problems to come.  It's a slippery slope that all aging athletes fall onto.

    Machines eventually break down and, unfortunately,  I think Ortiz is about ready to.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    soft you should know as well as the rest of us Ortiz will be "insulted" and "humiliated" by a one year match offer. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    Ortiz, Beckett, Ellsbury and Bard will be gone by 2013. 

    Sox will need a SP and help in the middle of the order, some of which might come from deals for the players above...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Beckett & Ellsbury

    soft you should know as well as the rest of us Ortiz will be "insulted" and "humiliated" by a one year match offer. 

    softy called me a racist for suggesting an offer bigger than his a couple months ago.
     
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