Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : Fair enough about your opinion that Seattle should trade Felix to fortify their team offensively. It makes sense. However, I am very much bothered by this statement: "Finding pitchers that can go 12-10 - which is King Felix's record sans his 2009 season" although I think I understand what your point is. As far as Beckett goes, I don't think anyone has declared him a top pitcher for this season. We're just saying that he is pitching better than his W-L record indicates. He hasn't pitched as badly as many people would have you believe. Yes, sometimes stats can be deceptive as to what is really happening on the field. Beckett's W-L record is a perfect example. As far as his attitude and bad clubhouse presence go, I'm not sure that is as bad as some people portray it either, but I agree that he needs to step it up and start exhibiting some of those intangibles.
    Posted by RedSoxKimmi[/QUOTE]all fair points rsk - we'll leave the Hernandez stuff aside for a moment, because I don't think we disagree all that much and it may not be germaine to beckett.

    I have no idea what beckett's effect is on the clubhouse. I'm a yankee fan anyway; so I like the crawford and lackey signings. But if there is something wrong with the chemistry of the team; some personell would have to be moved. 
    You're right though; only management knows for sure if beckett is part of the problem. nice talking to you.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]The Beckett loyalists are starting to sound like the Wakefield loyalists of last year.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Denny, what's your analysis of Beckett's 2011 season?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : Beckett had a good season last year, but that has not been in the norm during his career in Boston.  This is his 7th season.  Of the previous 6 he's had 2 undeniably terrible seasons (2006, 2010), 2 decent seasons (2008, 2009) and 2 high level seaons (2007, 2011).  This year so far is at best somewhere in between his terrible seasons and his decent ones.  He has not been a consistent pitcher in Boston which is why he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from last season (ignoring his decreased velocity and strikeout numbers this year).
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    Fair, except I think you are underrating his 2008 season a bit.  Very good WHIP, career high K/BB...got shelled a couple of times that inflated his ERA.  Also not sure "terrible" applies to his 2006 season unless you mean relative to expectations.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : Beckett had a good season last year, but that has not been in the norm during his career in Boston.  This is his 7th season.  Of the previous 6 he's had 2 undeniably terrible seasons (2006, 2010), 2 decent seasons (2008, 2009) and 2 high level seaons (2007, 2011).  This year so far is at best somewhere in between his terrible seasons and his decent ones.  He has not been a consistent pitcher in Boston which is why he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from last season (ignoring his decreased velocity and strikeout numbers this year).
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    2009 was better than a decent season, decent doesn't get you to the all-star game.  I pointed to this success last year b/c another poster was trying to make a Wakefield comparison, which is ridiculous.

    The point of the thread was a discussion on bashing Beckett for his W/L and if Beckett picks up wins in games where he goes 7IP 3ER, 7IP 2ER, 8IP 2ER, he is 8-7 right now and the heat on him is a lot less. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    ROY GREAT POST HOWEVER BECKETT'S HATERS WILL HAVE NONE OF IT. I HAVE TRIED TELLING GUYS LIKE BILL 806 OUR BELOVED NAVY GUY THE SAME STUFF.THEY WILL HAVE NONE OF IT.
    HE SUKS AND THOSE THAT SHOW OTHERWISE BE DAMNED...


    DID I SAY GREAT POST

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : Fair, except I think you are underrating his 2008 season a bit.  Very good WHIP, career high K/BB...got shelled a couple of times that inflated his ERA.  Also not sure "terrible" applies to his 2006 season unless you mean relative to expectations.
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    In 2008 his era was 4 and he only pitched 174 innings because he only started 27 games.  He gave up 4 or more runs in 10 of his starts.  Sure he got shelled a few times, but there were plenty of merely average starts.

    In 2006 his era was 5.  How is that not terrible exactly? 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    Never mind the won / loss record. Never mind the ERA. Never mind the off the field stuff. Just watch Beckett pitch. His fastball has diminished tremendously. He is trying to re-invent himself.  It is not working. 2011 is over. This is about right now. Josh has become very hittable. Isn't that obvious ?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : In 2008 his era was 4 and he only pitched 174 innings because he only started 27 games.  He gave up 4 or more runs in 10 of his starts.  Sure he got shelled a few times, but there were plenty of merely average starts. In 2006 his era was 5.  How is that not terrible exactly? 
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    Well he won 16 games in 2006. Isn't that what some posters have been saying -- all that matters is wins.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : 2009 was better than a decent season, decent doesn't get you to the all-star game.  I pointed to this success last year b/c another poster was trying to make a Wakefield comparison, which is ridiculous. The point of the thread was a discussion on bashing Beckett for his W/L and if Beckett picks up wins in games where he goes 7IP 3ER, 7IP 2ER, 8IP 2ER, he is 8-7 right now and the heat on him is a lot less. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    The all-star game is based on half a season.  Hell Matt Clement made the damn all star game when he was here.  Beckett was not nearly as good in the 2nd half.  The point here is that it was closer to the middle of the spectrum of his performance in Boston than anythng else when you look at the full season.

    My point here is that this argument about the W-L is a strawman.  There are plenty of compelling arguments that Beckett has not pitched that well this year that don't rely on bashing his W-L record even if some of the Beckett critics incorrectly argue as such.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]" Hopefully, his detractors will understand what you are saying here. Hopefully the opponent GMs won't see this. Excellent post. I'm in favor of keeping him." Loved how Bobby V left Beckett in last start long enough to twist in the wind and blow the game. Hope you criticized him for that to the same extent you relentlessly bashed Francona...
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]
    I did not critisize him because I respect his abilities to make sound baseball decisions. As I said before, I had and have zero respect for Francona's managerial abilities. BV knew why he left Beckett in the game. Given the exact same circumstances and situation, if Frasncona made the exact same move, he would NOT know why he did.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]Never mind the won / loss record. Never mind the ERA. Never mind the off the field stuff. Just watch Beckett pitch. His fastball has diminished tremendously. He is trying to re-invent himself.  It is not working. 2011 is over. This is about right now. Josh has become very hittable. Isn't that obvious ?
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    he has to reinvent himself, gale. Until now, he could always depend on his  velocity and just throw, now he has to learn how to pitch. How long that reasonably takes, IDK.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]Never mind the won / loss record. Never mind the ERA. Never mind the off the field stuff. Just watch Beckett pitch. His fastball has diminished tremendously. He is trying to re-invent himself.  It is not working. 2011 is over. This is about right now. Josh has become very hittable. Isn't that obvious ?
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    He doesn't look to have the stuff or command he once did, why is anyone's guess, but I agree it is causing him to have to re-invent the way he pitches somewhat.





     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : The all-star game is based on half a season.  Hell Matt Clement made the damn all star game when he was here.  Beckett was not nearly as good in the 2nd half.  The point here is that it was closer to the middle of the spectrum of his performance in Boston than anythng else when you look at the full season. My point here is that this argument about the W-L is a strawman.  There are plenty of compelling arguments that Beckett has not pitched that well this year that don't rely on bashing his W-L record even if some of the Beckett critics incorrectly argue as such.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    Your point about All-star games is valid and Clement is a good example but it doesn't really apply to Beckett in 2009, when his low ERA mark was in mid August. 

    Anyone would have to agree that Beckett has been inconsistent during his tenure in Boston, I just don't think he has been as awful this year as some want me to believe.



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    More on 2006.

    This is why you have to look in deeper at stats. Some posters will scoff at his 16 wins by pointing out his high ERA. But if you look deeper, Beckett was a legitimate 16-game winner. In all his wins except two, he pitched strong and wasn't bailed out by a lot of runs. He had one bad start (6 IP, 5 ER) and one mediocre start (6 IP, 3 ER) where he earned wins because of strong run support. But that is offset by him getting losses in two games where he pitched very good (both games 7 IP, 3 ER, 7 IP, 2 ER).

    And yes, he could have lost  couple of more games when he got a ND because he stunk, but he also could have won two more games.

    If you look at his 2006 season, he actually really as more of a 16-win pitcher than a 5-ERA pitcher. His ERA was skewed by some wretched performances in losses seven times allowing seven or more runs. 

    I'm not excusing those performances. But to me, if a pitcher starts 30 games good pitchers will pitch at least 20 strong ones (games with ERAs under 4.00). (Great pitchers will have more). So often times the difference between two pitchers simply is in the 10 games when they were bad, one might have simply been bad while the other was horrible.

    ERA to me is a great stat, especially when it's low. But high ERAs can be skewed when an off night is a disaster, rather than just a bad game. (WHIP stats can have the same problem).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]More on 2006. This is why you have to look in deeper at stats. Some posters will scoff at his 16 wins by pointing out his high ERA. But if you look deeper, Beckett was a legitimate 16-game winner. In all his wins except two, he pitched strong and wasn't bailed out by a lot of runs. He had one bad start (6 IP, 5 ER) and one mediocre start (6 IP, 3 ER) where he earned wins because of strong run support. But that is offset by him getting losses in two games where he pitched very good (both games 7 IP, 3 ER, 7 IP, 2 ER). And yes, he could have lost  couple of more games when he got a ND because he stunk, but he also could have won two more games. If you look at his 2006 season, he actually really as more of a 16-win pitcher than a 5-ERA pitcher. His ERA was skewed by some wretched performances in losses seven times allowing seven or more runs.  I'm not excusing those performances. But to me, if a pitcher starts 30 games good pitchers will pitch at least 20 strong ones (games with ERAs under 4.00). (Great pitchers will have more). So often times the difference between two pitchers simply is in the 10 games when they were bad, one might have simply been bad while the other was horrible. ERA to me is a great stat, especially when it's low. But high ERAs can be skewed when an off night is a disaster, rather than just a bad game. (WHIP stats can have the same problem).
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    True.  ERA doesn't allow for seperation of starts but a guy who wins 16 games obvsiously provided a number of quality starts.

    2006 Beckett couldn't keep the ball in the park, 30+ HR's. 

    This year Beckett hasn't allowed a HR in his last 10 starts.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    beckett couldve been clemens, but he lacks the work-ethic and drive to improve his game to that level...he simply is happy with what he can do and if it fails, he still gets paid...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years) : The all-star game is based on half a season.  Hell Matt Clement made the damn all star game when he was here.  Beckett was not nearly as good in the 2nd half.  The point here is that it was closer to the middle of the spectrum of his performance in Boston than anythng else when you look at the full season. My point here is that this argument about the W-L is a strawman.  There are plenty of compelling arguments that Beckett has not pitched that well this year that don't rely on bashing his W-L record even if some of the Beckett critics incorrectly argue as such.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    No one is saying he has pitched great this year. The point of this thread IS SPECIFICALLY aimed at those who have throw W-L records out there as an end-all stat.

    If a person doesn't like the guy, fine, but it shouldn't prevent them from doing an honest analysis. That's the point of my post on the 2006 season. Too many have mindlessly stated that yeah, he won 16 games but that was because he got a lot of run support. 

    That wasn't the case. I didn't look at his run support, but the fact is, he pitched well enough in those games to earn those wins. The Sox were 18-15 when he pitched that year, and he pitched well enough for them to be about 20-13.

    And it is worth looking into ERA and how they're compiled.

    Let's take two pitchers. Pitcher A has a 4.50 ERA in 10 starts by going 6 IP, 3 ER every start. Pitcher B goes 8 IP, 2 ER in eight starts and in his last two starts combines for 2 IP, 20 ER for a 4.90 ERA.

    Who do you want? I'd rather have Pitcher B.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]beckett couldve been clemens, but he lacks the work-ethic and drive to improve his game to that level...he simply is happy with what he can do and if it fails, he still gets paid...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Look that might be the case, and if it is, it certainly is a reasonable criticism. 

    I hate trying to guess what someone's drive is and what their work ethic is, so I hate going down that road. If I am, I'd guess that he does try to improve his game and isn't happy when he doesn't perform well and I'll go one step further and say on the mound, he does try to compete. 

    However, his worth ethic, especially in the offseason, might not be strong enough, which if true, is a big flaw.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    Rocket´s "drive" was a shot in the butt.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    Go back and look at the RS that Greg Maddux got and still managed 15 wins in 15 straight seasons. Then present your argument again.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    Maddux is a Hall of Famer, unfair comparison.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    beckett's on again off again success is proof enough that the only problem with his pitching resides in his fat head...
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    In Response to Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years):
    [QUOTE]Go back and look at the RS that Greg Maddux got and still managed 15 wins in 15 straight seasons. Then present your argument again.
    Posted by harv53[/QUOTE]


    Also he was playing for a talent Atlanta Braves where they won like 9 east titles in a row.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Beckett Can't Catch a Break (Or Why He Could be 35-8 Over The Last Two Years)

    Again, ridiculous comparison.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share