Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    In Response to Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M:
    [QUOTE]Bell for 3/27 is about what I think the Sox should have paid.  That would have been a good deal, IMO. I like the idea of Aardsma, Cordero, and Zumaya (if he'll sign an incentive laden deal).  Lots of potential there, along with Jenks and Morales, and Hill/Doubront/Bowden and Weiland.  Might even allow Bard AND Aceves to move to the rotation (as I think at least one of them should). But I just have this feeling that the Sox are going to sign Madson for a year less and about 10-15 million less than Papelbon, thus trading pitchers, but saving money.  Just my hunch at this point.
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]

    Aardsma is out until probably August or so.

    Zumaya shouldn't get anything more than a minr league deal or a spring training invite.

    Cordero is in play.

    If the Sox are thinking about moving Bard to the rotation, wouldn't it simply make more sense to trade him for a starting pitcher?  The guy is young, cheap, controllable and could fill a closer role for even the tightwaddiest of GMs.

    If Bard could get moved for a cheap controllable battle-tested SP like Bud Norris or Mike Leake, it would make more sense than Jobafying Bard into jelly-armed uselessness....
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    In Response to Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M:
    [QUOTE]if im ben cherington there is one guy i would go after and he is not a free agent. i would not mind if the sox signed fracisco rodriguez but i hope they stay away from madson etc. (though madson would be a good set up man) Bard should not be the closer for 2012. he cant even handle the pressure of the set up role. he blew many saves and took many losses last year and needs to stay as a set up man. The guy the sox need to get is andrew bailey. he is by far the best option at this point. oakland is motivated to move him and i dont think the cost would be that high. maybe the sox can pull of a deal for both bailey and gio gonzalez. kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. Bailey is young (27) and has been dominant. He is the guy who could be our closer for many years to come. Get bailey. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    Oakland only wants to move Bailey to get as much as possible for him.  That is how Beane operates. 

    And the Sox don’t have the prospects to pull off getting Bailey or Gonzalez, let alone getting both.  The only way they could pull that off would be to send prospects for Bailey, and then send Bailey with additional prospects back to Oakland for Gonzalez.  None of these situations are going to happen.  They are right up there with the “trade Lowrie, Reddick and Lars Anderson for Matt Garza” posts.

    Bailey will cost Middlebrooks or Renaudo, plus others.  Which do you want to give up for someone to handle the most overrated position in sports?  Gonzalez will cost both plus others, and was destroyed by AL East teams last year (5.53ERA).

    The Red Sox would be smarter to look at San Francisco and Atlanta as trade partners.  Both are built to win now, unlike Oakland, and therefore willing to take major leaguers in return.  Both have serious bullpen depth, and both desperately need a shortstop.  If the Sox could deal Lowrie for Sergio Romo, Jeremy Affeldt (SF would do it, but he has a $5mill pricetag for 2012), Santiago Casilla, Eric O’Flaherty, Kris Medlen or Pete Moylan, it would be a step in the right direction.  Though Moylan and Medlen have health risks.

    No one likes a good bullpen more than me, but people do have to stop re-writing history to say the Cardinals had a good one.  Their closer role was changing weekly, with the team getting saves from 8 different pitchers, 5 of whom had more than one.  The bullpen was the reason they got into the hole that required their comeback, and it really did not improve until August, when they picked up a few complimentary arms.

     

     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    notin, i do not think that the price in terms of prospects for bailey would be that high. he is a closer after all so oakland cannot expect to get as much for him as a front end starter. i think if the sox want him which they should, the could get a deal done at a reasonable cost. one thing i forgot to mention in my last post is that bailey also would be a lot cheaper than any of the other options the sox have. he would be the most cost efficient option and would not require an expensive long term deal. 
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    In Response to Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M:
    [QUOTE]notin, i do not think that the price in terms of prospects for bailey would be that high. he is a closer after all so oakland cannot expect to get as much for him as a front end starter. i think if the sox want him which they should, the could get a deal done at a reasonable cost. one thing i forgot to mention in my last post is that bailey also would be a lot cheaper than any of the other options the sox have. he would be the most cost efficient option and would not require an expensive long term deal. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]
    Which is why the Athletics can ask for a substantial return in a trade of Andrew Bailey.

    By the same token, Seattle could make All Star closer Brandon League available in a trade, but the Mariners and Red Sox don't match up well (and League remains under his team's control for only one more season as opposed to Bailey's three seasons).
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    Bell had  decent numbers in Petco     weren't we told that  at Fenway Agons   numbers would increase  because of the smaller park and   wall ?  Bell's  numbers would not translate  equally  to Fenway.

    Bard was a starter in college and in the minors.. His best work is out of the pen.
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    In Response to Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M:
    [QUOTE]notin, i do not think that the price in terms of prospects for bailey would be that high. he is a closer after all so oakland cannot expect to get as much for him as a front end starter. i think if the sox want him which they should, the could get a deal done at a reasonable cost. one thing i forgot to mention in my last post is that bailey also would be a lot cheaper than any of the other options the sox have. he would be the most cost efficient option and would not require an expensive long term deal. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    And what do you think the Sox would have to give up for a ROY closer with 3 years of control left?  It won't be Lowrie, Reddick and Lars Anderson.  Any trade package would have to be good enough to get Daniel Bard, so bear in mind what Sox prospects you would think of as a good return if you were dealing Bard.

    For Gonzalez, mlbtr reported they wanted a Dan Haren package.  The A's got Carlos Gonzalez and Brett Anderson for Haren, among others.  So forget about him; the Sox cannot match that offer...
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    Trading Bard straight up for a starter sounds ok, but what would you get?  Bard has electric stuff.  He is unproven as a starter.  An 8th inning reliever, even with a 100 mph fastball is not going to get you a decent 3rd or 4th starter.  However, Bard has the potential to be a #3 or even #2 starter, IMO.  That is why I wouldn't think trading Bard for a starter would bring as much value, and would not be a good idea.
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    redsoxpride,

    I have to take it back on Aardsma, thanks to you.  I guess I was really confusing him in my mind with David Riske.  Aardsma has only had success with Seattle.  Probably the park helped him a lot.  His problems in Boston were due to too many walks and too many HRs.  These were also problems that plagued him in Chicago.  And he had TJ surgery in July, so he will not return until later than Hill and Dice-K. 

    So, yes...he's a pass.  
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    You guys asking for Coco Cordero don't know what you're getting into.
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    I would not be asking Cordero to be my closer.  I'd expect him to be another 7th/8th inning option along with Jenks and Morales.  Bard would be my closer, unless Madson is signed. 
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    In Response to Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M:
    [QUOTE]redsoxpride, I have to take it back on Aardsma, thanks to you.  I guess I was really confusing him in my mind with David Riske.  Aardsma has only had success with Seattle.  Probably the park helped him a lot.  His problems in Boston were due to too many walks and too many HRs.  These were also problems that plagued him in Chicago.  And he had TJ surgery in July, so he will not return until later than Hill and Dice-K.  So, yes...he's a pass.  
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]

    Aardsma is also unlikely to pitch before August, 2012.  There is a reason he was let go...
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    In Response to Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M:
    [QUOTE]Trading Bard straight up for a starter sounds ok, but what would you get?  Bard has electric stuff.  He is unproven as a starter.  An 8th inning reliever, even with a 100 mph fastball is not going to get you a decent 3rd or 4th starter.  However, Bard has the potential to be a #3 or even #2 starter, IMO.  That is why I wouldn't think trading Bard for a starter would bring as much value, and would not be a good idea.
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]

    The real problem with trading Bad for a starter is finding a team to match up with.  how many teams have expendable starters but need bullpen help?

    Bard as a starter won't be the same pitcher.  He won't be throwing 100mph, or at least not nearly as often.   In fact it is doubtful he is as successful as people seem to want him to be, since he will be allowing for more adjustments adialing it back to pace himself for greater pitch counts (and probablyu still falling apart in  September).

    There is a reason very few make the jump for closer to starter, and even fewer make it successfully.

    It is tough to match up a decent deal for Bard.  I'd like to see him get Bud Norris or Mike Leake (two players of comparable age and salary and experience on a team missing a closer), but I really dobt the Astros or Reds go that.

    In the end, I think the Sox sign one starter, make Aceves the other, deal Jed for a RP (Atl or SF?), and maybe sign one last releiver, but not likely....
     
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    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    Notin, do you think Oakland would take several low level but good prospects for Bailey or Gio? The Sox seem to be loaded in that area.

    We also have a few higher level players with 4+ years of team control besides Bard... something Oakland loves:

    Lavarnway
    Tazawa
    Atchison
    Doubront
    Anderson
    Bowden
    Exposito
    Kalish
    Weiland

    Players with just 3 years of team control (arbs):
    Aceves
    Aviles
    Miller
    Reddick
    Lowrie
    Morales


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Bell agreed to sign with Marlins 3 yrs 27 M

    The answer is as easy as you expect.

    There are several teams interested in Bailey. Texas, San diego, Cincinncati, Toronto.  Can the Sox put together the best package, and should they?
     

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