Ben & Co. Since July 2012

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    I like to think to a large extent, the Sox truly became Ben's team at the deadline last year, so let's start there...

     

    Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    Shoppach> > Beato

    AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Webster, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

    Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    Signed Overbay (later released)

    Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

     

    I am not making any final judgement by providing these small sample size numbers of 2013. Judging a trade's success or failure usually involves a lot of context and a lot of time.

    The departed:

    AGon      .299  15  66  in 436 PAs (.818 OPS)

    Crawford .278  5  16 in 280 PAs (.738 OPS)

    Beckett    43.1 IP 0-5 /  5.19 / 1.500 (Out for season)

    Punto     .239  1  12 in 236 PAs (.602 OPS)

    Melancon  51.1 IP /  ERA 0.88 / WHIP 0.818

    Pimental   AAA  58.2 / 2.45 / 1.006

    J Sands     AAA  .214  7  27 in 321 PAs

    Loney      .316  10  51 in 361 PAs (.826 OPS)

    Overbay  .250  12  46 in 355 PAs (.729 OPSP)

     

    The acquired (or re-signed while not under team control) :

    Ortiz       .323  20  69  (.992) in 388 PAs

    Uehara   49.1 IP  1.71 / 0.689  9 svs

    Carp        .311   8  28  (.962) in 169 PAs

    Napoli     .257  14  64  (.800) in 414 PAs

    Victorino .284  6  31  (.739) in 324 PAs

    Breslow      39 IP   2.54 / 1.256

    Dempster  127 IP  4.54 / 1.496

    P Beato       7.1 IP  2.45 / 1.091

    Thornton    6.2 IP  2.70 / 1.650

    J Gomes  .236  8  27  (.753) in 235 PAs

    S Drew    .230  7  38  (.723) in 307 PAs

    D Ross    .185   4    6  (.674) in 75 PAs

    B Holt     .275   0    9  (.636) in 47 PAs

    Webster  26.1 IP  1-2  9.57/ 1.899

     

    Hanrahan  7.1 IP  0-1  9.82/ 2.182 (Out for the seasons)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    Trades should not be definitively judged until after all players' year's of control are gone. That being said, here are my ranking based on hindsight, cost, and 2013 numbers.

     

    A+ Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    B+ Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    B  Shoppach> > Beato

    A+ AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Web, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

     Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    D  Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    C- Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    C- Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    A+ Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    D+ Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    C- Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    F  Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    A  Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    B- Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    C  Signed Overbay (later released)

    A+ Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B  B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    ?  J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

    Sox4ever

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Trades should not be definitively judged until after all players' year's of control are gone. That being said, here are my ranking based on hindsight, cost, and 2013 numbers.

     

    A+ Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    B+ Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    B  Shoppach> > Beato

    A+ AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Web, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

     Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    D  Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    C- Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    C- Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    A+ Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    D+ Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    C- Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    F  Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    A  Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    B- Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    C  Signed Overbay (later released)

    A+ Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B  B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    ?  J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

    Sox4ever




    Are you basing your grades soley on performance? I think some intangibles should be considered too. I understand that the numbers are what most go by, but what a player brings to a team besides numbers is also factored in with GM's, so I believe it should be factored in here. If it hasnt been already of course.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Trades should not be definitively judged until after all players' year's of control are gone. That being said, here are my ranking based on hindsight, cost, and 2013 numbers.

     

    A+ Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    B+ Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    B  Shoppach> > Beato

    A+ AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Web, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

     Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    D  Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    C- Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    C- Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    A+ Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    D+ Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    C- Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    F  Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    A  Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    B- Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    C  Signed Overbay (later released)

    A+ Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B  B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    ?  J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

    Sox4ever

     




    Are you basing your grades soley on performance? I think some intangibles should be considered too. I understand that the numbers are what most go by, but what a player brings to a team besides numbers is also factored in with GM's, so I believe it should be factored in here. If it hasnt been already of course.

     



    Yes, context was not part of my grades. Injuries and missed time factored in to the grades as well. The performance vs salary cost was also a factor- fair or not.

    I counted the Papi signing as a move, since he was not under team control after 2012.

    To me, the only major good moves after the Dodger trade were Pap, Uehara, and Carp, but with Carp's minimal playing time this year, one could call that a minor deal.

    The borderline deals:

    Napoli: he will likely make $12-12.5M this year. He is close to earning that pay.

    Victorino: has missed a lot of time and not done really well when he does play. His defense has been very good, but at $13M a year, I think he could be considered as not earning his money thus far.

    Dempster: has had tough run support, but at $13.5M/yr, I think his numbers do not meet the expectations.

    Drew: at $9.5M has missed too much time to be considered a plus at that cost. He has fielded better than I expected and has heated things up a bit at the plate, so like many of these grades, they can be improved upon over the rest of the deal.

    Ross, Gomes, Hanrahan, Thornton, and the Breslow signing are probably not considered major moves. The first 3 are not net plauses so far, the last 2 look good so far.

    As I have stated several times over the years, fair or not, GMs in every sport are judged mainly in hindsight. An unforeseen injury to a normally healthy player can kill a GMs reputation and success. Many of these deals still have a way to go, before they can be definitively judges as successes or failures or somewhere inbetween.

    Quite frankly, I am a bit shocked we are in first place without any of Victorino, Napoli, Dempster, Drew, or Hanrahan really being a big net plus. I didn't think we had much of a chance even if these guys did better than they have so far. I expected better numbers from Hanrahan, Gomes, Ross, and Dempster. I expected about what we got from Napoli, Drew, and Victorino. Almost nobody picked up last winter has greatly exceeded my expectations, and yet here we are in first place, except for Carp! Uehara has done about what I expected, but since becomming the closer and is on pace for more IP that assumed, I'd say he has now exceeded expectations.

    The players that have exceeded expectations are mostly players that we had before last winter:

    Nava

    Lackey

    Doubront

    Papi

    Tazawa

    Miller

    Iggy

    Salty

    Breslow, Workman, Beato, Britton.

     

    Players close to expectations:

    Ellsbury, Pedroia, Buchholz (injury subtracted)

     

    Players under expectations:

    Middlebrooks, Lester, Bailey, Aceves, Mortensen, Morales

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I like to think to a large extent, the Sox truly became Ben's team at the deadline last year, so let's start there...

     

    Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    Shoppach> > Beato

    AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Webster, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

    Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    Signed Overbay (later released)

    Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

     

    I am not making any final judgement by providing these small sample size numbers of 2013. Judging a trade's success or failure usually involves a lot of context and a lot of time.

    The departed:

    AGon      .299  15  66  in 436 PAs (.818 OPS)

    Crawford .278  5  16 in 280 PAs (.738 OPS)

    Beckett    43.1 IP 0-5 /  5.19 / 1.500 (Out for season)

    Punto     .239  1  12 in 236 PAs (.602 OPS)

    Melancon  51.1 IP /  ERA 0.88 / WHIP 0.818

    Pimental   AAA  58.2 / 2.45 / 1.006

    J Sands     AAA  .214  7  27 in 321 PAs

    Loney      .316  10  51 in 361 PAs (.826 OPS)

    Overbay  .250  12  46 in 355 PAs (.729 OPSP)

     

    The acquired (or re-signed while not under team control) :

    Ortiz       .323  20  69  (.992) in 388 PAs

    Uehara   49.1 IP  1.71 / 0.689  9 svs

    Carp        .311   8  28  (.962) in 169 PAs

    Napoli     .257  14  64  (.800) in 414 PAs

    Victorino .284  6  31  (.739) in 324 PAs

    Breslow      39 IP   2.54 / 1.256

    Dempster  127 IP  4.54 / 1.496

    P Beato       7.1 IP  2.45 / 1.091

    Thornton    6.2 IP  2.70 / 1.650

    J Gomes  .236  8  27  (.753) in 235 PAs

    S Drew    .230  7  38  (.723) in 307 PAs

    D Ross    .185   4    6  (.674) in 75 PAs

    B Holt     .275   0    9  (.636) in 47 PAs

    Webster  26.1 IP  1-2  9.57/ 1.899

     

    Hanrahan  7.1 IP  0-1  9.82/ 2.182 (Out for the seasons)



    Either way Ben deserves a lot of credit for realizing Theo's mistakes and turning us around in such a short period of time.  That's why I never really thought Theo was a great GM.  He tweaked an already very good team and we won two championships but he never had to face the same challenge as Ben.  If anything Theo was handed an open wallet and had no clue what to do with it more often than not.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    While its definitely not too early to start judging him....only have the picture can be seen.  He has a longer term plan and every year the team becomes more his.  I love that he's not afraid to spend the money but he's also reluctant to give up top talent.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

     

    Trades should not be definitively judged until after all players' year's of control are gone. That being said, here are my ranking based on hindsight, cost, and 2013 numbers.

     

    A+ Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    B+ Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    B  Shoppach> > Beato

    A+ AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Web, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

     Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    D  Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    C- Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    C- Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    A+ Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    D+ Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    C- Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    F  Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    A  Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    B- Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    C  Signed Overbay (later released)

    A+ Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B  B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    ?  J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

    Sox4ever

     

     




    Are you basing your grades soley on performance? I think some intangibles should be considered too. I understand that the numbers are what most go by, but what a player brings to a team besides numbers is also factored in with GM's, so I believe it should be factored in here. If it hasnt been already of course.

     

     

     



    Yes, context was not part of my grades. Injuries and missed time factored in to the grades as well. The performance vs salary cost was also a factor- fair or not.

     

    I counted the Papi signing as a move, since he was not under team control after 2012.

    To me, the only major good moves after the Dodger trade were Pap, Uehara, and Carp, but with Carp's minimal playing time this year, one could call that a minor deal.

    The borderline deals:

    Napoli: he will likely make $12-12.5M this year. He is close to earning that pay.

    Victorino: has missed a lot of time and not done really well when he does play. His defense has been very good, but at $13M a year, I think he could be considered as not earning his money thus far.

    Dempster: has had tough run support, but at $13.5M/yr, I think his numbers do not meet the expectations.

    Drew: at $9.5M has missed too much time to be considered a plus at that cost. He has fielded better than I expected and has heated things up a bit at the plate, so like many of these grades, they can be improved upon over the rest of the deal.

    Ross, Gomes, Hanrahan, Thornton, and the Breslow signing are probably not considered major moves. The first 3 are not net plauses so far, the last 2 look good so far.

    As I have stated several times over the years, fair or not, GMs in every sport are judged mainly in hindsight. An unforeseen injury to a normally healthy player can kill a GMs reputation and success. Many of these deals still have a way to go, before they can be definitively judges as successes or failures or somewhere inbetween.

    Quite frankly, I am a bit shocked we are in first place without any of Victorino, Napoli, Dempster, Drew, or Hanrahan really being a big net plus. I didn't think we had much of a chance even if these guys did better than they have so far. I expected better numbers from Hanrahan, Gomes, Ross, and Dempster. I expected about what we got from Napoli, Drew, and Victorino. Almost nobody picked up last winter has greatly exceeded my expectations, and yet here we are in first place, except for Carp! Uehara has done about what I expected, but since becomming the closer and is on pace for more IP that assumed, I'd say he has now exceeded expectations.

    The players that have exceeded expectations are mostly players that we had before last winter:

    Nava

    Lackey

    Doubront

    Papi

    Tazawa

    Miller

    Iggy

    Salty

    Breslow, Workman, Beato, Britton.

     

    Players close to expectations:

    Ellsbury, Pedroia, Buchholz (injury subtracted)

     

    Players under expectations:

    Middlebrooks, Lester, Bailey, Aceves, Mortensen, Morales

     




    Ok, fair enough..

    I would give a couple better gardes. Not a big difference, but I cant give Ross a D because he has a concussion. probably an incomplete. Thats an injury that I cant hold against a player. I also think Gomes has been a big + to the clubhouse and much better on defense than I thought. C to B-Drews D is better than some here thought and Id probably do a strainght C or B- with him right now. Id give Naps a C because hes below his norms and his K rate is through the roof.

    Overall we pretty much agree on the acquisitions/moves that Ben has made. I like how hes doing things so far.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I like to think to a large extent, the Sox truly became Ben's team at the deadline last year, so let's start there...

     

    Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    Shoppach> > Beato

    AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Webster, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

    Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    Signed Overbay (later released)

    Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

     

    I am not making any final judgement by providing these small sample size numbers of 2013. Judging a trade's success or failure usually involves a lot of context and a lot of time.

    The departed:

    AGon      .299  15  66  in 436 PAs (.818 OPS)

    Crawford .278  5  16 in 280 PAs (.738 OPS)

    Beckett    43.1 IP 0-5 /  5.19 / 1.500 (Out for season)

    Punto     .239  1  12 in 236 PAs (.602 OPS)

    Melancon  51.1 IP /  ERA 0.88 / WHIP 0.818

    Pimental   AAA  58.2 / 2.45 / 1.006

    J Sands     AAA  .214  7  27 in 321 PAs

    Loney      .316  10  51 in 361 PAs (.826 OPS)

    Overbay  .250  12  46 in 355 PAs (.729 OPSP)

     

    The acquired (or re-signed while not under team control) :

    Ortiz       .323  20  69  (.992) in 388 PAs

    Uehara   49.1 IP  1.71 / 0.689  9 svs

    Carp        .311   8  28  (.962) in 169 PAs

    Napoli     .257  14  64  (.800) in 414 PAs

    Victorino .284  6  31  (.739) in 324 PAs

    Breslow      39 IP   2.54 / 1.256

    Dempster  127 IP  4.54 / 1.496

    P Beato       7.1 IP  2.45 / 1.091

    Thornton    6.2 IP  2.70 / 1.650

    J Gomes  .236  8  27  (.753) in 235 PAs

    S Drew    .230  7  38  (.723) in 307 PAs

    D Ross    .185   4    6  (.674) in 75 PAs

    B Holt     .275   0    9  (.636) in 47 PAs

    Webster  26.1 IP  1-2  9.57/ 1.899

     

    Hanrahan  7.1 IP  0-1  9.82/ 2.182 (Out for the seasons)

     



    Either way Ben deserves a lot of credit for realizing Theo's mistakes and turning us around in such a short period of time.  That's why I never really thought Theo was a great GM.  He tweaked an already very good team and we won two championships but he never had to face the same challenge as Ben.  If anything Theo was handed an open wallet and had no clue what to do with it more often than not.

     



    Excellent analysis as always Moon. I couldn't agree more Craze4sox that Theo had a wide open wallet and could literally do whatever he wanted. Many of his most blunderous boobisodes were a direct result of this largess. One lesson I hope the Red Sox learned, is that "small" $5-6 million contracts add up to big money. Every player chosen must be selected with care and with a strong expectation of positive performance. Dice rolling is for suckers! Leave the trash in the waste basket, because for every positive reclamation project there are 10 Brad Penny's and John Smoltz's. I can't help but wonder if we had used the $11 million for those two on 1 REAL starter what might have been. Next off season will tell the tale for me regarding Cherington and this ownership group. I'm hoping for some studs to be added to the mix. We shall see! 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Trades should not be definitively judged until after all players' year's of control are gone. That being said, here are my ranking based on hindsight, cost, and 2013 numbers.

     

    A+ Albers & Podsednik >> Breslow (got Podsednik back later off waivers)

    B+ Lars Anderson >> S Wright

    B  Shoppach> > Beato

    A+ AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto >> Loney (later released) , Web, DLR, Sands, & De Jesus

     Re-signed D Ortiz ($26M/2)

    D  Signed D Ross  ($6.2M/2)

    C- Signed J Gomes ($10M/2)

    C- Signed Victorino ($39M/3)

    A+ Signed Uehara ($4.25M plus one more arb year)

    D+ Signed Dempster ($26.5M/2)

    C- Signed S Drew ($9.5M/1)

    F  Melancon, Pimental, Sands, DeJesus >> Hanrahan ($7.04M) & Holt

    A  Signed Breslow ($6.25M/2)

    B- Sign Napoli (will probably make $11.5 to $13M)

    C  Signed Overbay (later released)

    A+ Cash>> M Carp ($.508M and 3 more arbs)

    B  B Jacobs >> M Thornton ($6M club option in '14/$1M buyout)

    ?  J Iglesias, Montas, Wendelken, & Rondon >> Peavy ($14.5M in '14) & Villareal

    Sox4ever




    Basically agree with your grades.

    I disagree with both Breslow grades. I give the first move for Breslow a B+ and the second a D+, which makes it tied for the 2nd worst move. Breslow is just a mediocre to good middle reliever to me.

    I give Ross a C or incomplete. And before the concussion I would have given it a B+.

    I give Drew a B+.

    Napoli a C.

    So I move 3 moves down and 2 moves up. Overall, I think the dude is doing well. Overall 10-6, with 4 A's and 1 F, D-, or D.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

     

     

    The Beginning & end of the succesful Beginning to the next 10 years of the Ben C era is the purge trade / sell off of A-Gon, Craw, & Beckett.  With one felled swoop, he purged LONG-TERM 'untradable' contracts, & unbelievably hit the re-set button, when so many thought the sox were unavoidably stuck under a gigantic bolder!  

    Perhaps the best re-set in sports history!!!!!  Certainly worlds ahead of our Russian - USA diplomacy re-set!!!!

    add JF at the helm, resigning Papi, the host of short term contracts, sticking with high quality/ no problems/ good clubhouse/ good character/ low ego guys, & being open to dipping into the minors, has helped create a positive fun loving 'TEAM CHEMISTRY' that is impossible to deny.  

    Forget his role as GM, the guy is a WORLD CLASS chemist!!!!   :)

    He's gonna make mistakes over the next 10 years, but he hits close to .600 & wins us at least one, I say 2, World  Series Titles.  :). :). 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    Overall.....     A PLUS PLUS PLUS so far.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

     

    The Beginning & end of the succesful Beginning to the next 10 years of the Ben C era is the purge trade / sell off of A-Gon, Craw, & Beckett.  With one felled swoop, he purged LONG-TERM 'untradable' contracts, & unbelievably hit the re-set button, when so many thought the sox were unavoidably stuck under a gigantic bolder!  

    Perhaps the best re-set in sports history!!!!!  Certainly worlds ahead of our Russian - USA diplomacy re-set!!!!

    add JF at the helm, resigning Papi, the host of short term contracts, sticking with high quality/ no problems/ good clubhouse/ good character/ low ego guys, & being open to dipping into the minors, has helped create a positive fun loving 'TEAM CHEMISTRY' that is impossible to deny.  

    Forget his role as GM, the guy is a WORLD CLASS chemist!!!!   :)

    He's gonna make mistakes over the next 10 years, but he hits close to .600 & wins us at least one, I say 2, World  Series Titles.  :). :). 



    Great take. The intangibles do not show up on this report card. Also, the drafts are still graded "incomplete".

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

     

     

    The Beginning & end of the succesful Beginning to the next 10 years of the Ben C era is the purge trade / sell off of A-Gon, Craw, & Beckett.  With one felled swoop, he purged LONG-TERM 'untradable' contracts, & unbelievably hit the re-set button, when so many thought the sox were unavoidably stuck under a gigantic bolder!  

    Perhaps the best re-set in sports history!!!!!  Certainly worlds ahead of our Russian - USA diplomacy re-set!!!!

    add JF at the helm, resigning Papi, the host of short term contracts, sticking with high quality/ no problems/ good clubhouse/ good character/ low ego guys, & being open to dipping into the minors, has helped create a positive fun loving 'TEAM CHEMISTRY' that is impossible to deny.  

    Forget his role as GM, the guy is a WORLD CLASS chemist!!!!   :)

    He's gonna make mistakes over the next 10 years, but he hits close to .600 & wins us at least one, I say 2, World  Series Titles.  :). :). 

     



    Great take. The intangibles do not show up on this report card. Also, the drafts are still graded "incomplete".

     



    Agreed!  I might give Naps a B-, as without his high early RBI total, the Sox don't jump out to a great start?  Still, good job on grading.  Oh, I'd give Vic a B

     

     

    What a great new beginning!  What a great year, with a hodgepodge of great guys!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    Agreed!  I might give Naps a B-, as without his high early RBI total, the Sox don't jump out to a great start?  Still, good job on grading.  Oh, I'd give Vic a B

    At $13M, I think his grade is correct. Missing so much time also hurts his grade. While the .737 OPS is better than last year, it's his second lowest of his career.

    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Agreed!  I might give Naps a B-, as without his high early RBI total, the Sox don't jump out to a great start?  Still, good job on grading.  Oh, I'd give Vic a B

    At $13M, I think his grade is correct. Missing so much time also hurts his grade. While the .737 OPS is better than last year, it's his second lowest of his career.

    Sox4ever



    Outfielders are so ridiculously over-priced!  I hated the contract when first signed.  Vic has grown on me, & is an Even better fielder than advertised. If he can stay healthy, he just might earn that contract?  BIG if though.....   I'll be pulling for him to do us proud. :)

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Agreed!  I might give Naps a B-, as without his high early RBI total, the Sox don't jump out to a great start?  Still, good job on grading.  Oh, I'd give Vic a B

    At $13M, I think his grade is correct. Missing so much time also hurts his grade. While the .737 OPS is better than last year, it's his second lowest of his career.

    Sox4ever

     



    Outfielders are so ridiculously over-priced!  I hated the contract when first signed.  Vic has grown on me, & is an Even better fielder than advertised. If he can stay healthy, he just might earn that contract?  BIG if though.....   I'll be pulling for him to do us proud. :)

     



    True. The options out there were not great this year. Hamilton cost $125M/5 and a draft pick. BJ Upton cost $75M/5 plus pick. Swisher cost $56M/4 plus pick. Bourn cost $48M/4 and a draft pick. Pagan $40M/4 was my preffered choice. T Hunter $26M/2. Cody Ross $26M/3.  M Cabrera cost $16M/2, Ludwick $15M/2.  Justin Upton, Wil Myers and Choo were available through trade, but it's hard to know what we would have had to give up to get one of them.

    2013 OPS (over 300 PAs)

    .880  Choo

    .839  M Byrd

    .830  Schierholtz

    .823  Hunter

    .802  J Upton

    .753  A Soriano

    .745  C Ross

    .737  Victorino

    .707  Bourn

    .685  Hamilton

    .682  M Cabrera

    .565  BJ Upton

     

    It's almost like this list is the inverse of the list by salary per year cost!

     

     

     

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    The grades for Victorino and Drew are too low.  Based on WAR they are much better than C-.

    Victorino 4.0 per B-R 3.6 per FG

    Drew 1.8 per B-R 2.2 per FG 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    Excellent analysis as always Moon. I couldn't agree more Craze4sox that Theo had a wide open wallet and could literally do whatever he wanted. Many of his most blunderous boobisodes were a direct result of this largess. One lesson I hope the Red Sox learned, is that "small" $5-6 million contracts add up to big money. Every player chosen must be selected with care and with a strong expectation of positive performance. Dice rolling is for suckers! Leave the trash in the waste basket, because for every positive reclamation project there are 10 Brad Penny's and John Smoltz's. I can't help but wonder if we had used the $11 million for those two on 1 REAL starter what might have been. Next off season will tell the tale for me regarding Cherington and this ownership group. I'm hoping for some studs to be added to the mix. We shall see! 

     

     

    You say spend small not big, then wonder what would have happened if we had spent large not small instead of Penny/Smoltz. It's a guess/gamble either way.

    Sox4ever

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    The grades for Victorino and Drew are too low.  Based on WAR they are much better than C-.

    Victorino 4.0 per B-R 3.6 per FG

    Drew 1.8 per B-R 2.2 per FG 



    Fangraphs has this for value...

    JE    $22M

    SV  $17.8M

    DP  $17.5M

    DO $16.3M

    SD  $10.9M

    MN  $10.4M

    JS   $10.2M

    MC  $4.9M

    JI    $4.2M

    JG   $3.3M

    DN  $3.2M

    DR  $2.8M

    RL   $0.2M

    All others are at 0 or below.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    I think Ben's hands were tied earlier in his tenure as GM. He did not want Valentine as the manager and may have not been fully behind some other moves made before the deadline last year, but here are the rest of the major moves made since Ben became the GM:

    Signed K Shoppach

    Signed N Punto

    Lowrie & Weiland for Melancon

    Reddick, M Head & R Alcantara for A Bailey & R Sweeney

    Signed C Silva, P Ciriaco, A Cook,  V Padilla, Podsednick & M Gomez

    Scutaro for Mortensen

    Signed Cody Ross

    Acquired C Carpenter & A Kurcz as compensation for losing Theo to the Cubs.

    M Bowden for Marlon Byrd and cash

    Youkilis for Z Stewart, B Lillibridge & Cash

     

    Sox4ever

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    Will Ben add another move to the list with a waiver wire deal?

    Sox4ever

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from youkillus. Show youkillus's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    Did you miss the big trade? Aviles for manager John? Aviles was an adequate defender, but his home /away splits were crazy, .254/.246, HR 7/6, RBI 42/18. What? He could not be counted on to do anything on the road. His 15 errors vs Drew's 4 (thus far) is another huge gap. Removing the mostly unproductive and leaky D at SS, and replacing it with the more balanced and steady Mr. Drew as well as adding the even keeled respected Farrell is the single biggest change. A+++

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    In response to youkillus' comment:

    Did you miss the big trade? Aviles for manager John? Aviles was an adequate defender, but his home /away splits were crazy, .254/.246, HR 7/6, RBI 42/18. What? He could not be counted on to do anything on the road. His 15 errors vs Drew's 4 (thus far) is another huge gap. Removing the mostly unproductive and leaky D at SS, and replacing it with the more balanced and steady Mr. Drew as well as adding the even keeled respected Farrell is the single biggest change. A+++



    Yes, I missed this one. Thanks.

    Aviles actually did a decent job a SS on defense, but Drew is better in every area, except maybe on offense vs LHPs.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben & Co. Since July 2012

    I wonder if Ben is trying hard for a waiverwire deal.

    Sox4ever

     
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