Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    What grade would you give Ben C on the signings:

    1. David Ross - B Gives team flexibility if they make a trade. If they don't trade Salty, then they are letting Lavarnway fade away to a non-prospect, assuming he is one.

    2. Johnny Gomes - C Good 4th OF, but way overpaid. He only made $1M last year and there was no justification for giving him $5M per year. If they end up signing Cody Ross, then they have a very expensive 4th outfielder and there is no room on the team for any prospect who may do well in spring training.

    3. Mike Napoli - F Way overpaid for a guy who obiously is not a multidimensional player and who is obviously injured. Anytime you want to get out of a contract you offered, you deserve a failing grade.

    4. Shane Victorino - B-/C+ Not happy with the money he shelled out for this guy, but after all of the other singings, this one doesn't look too bad. If they end up keeping Ellsbury after 2013, then this signing could prevent JBJ or Brentz from playing time.

    5. Dempster - C+ Good 5th starter, but age and a lifetime NL pitcher are major causes for concern.

    6. Drew - D Giving a guy who hit .223 a raise from $8M to $9.5M? Cherry got used by Boras on this one.

     

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to EdithBRTN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You really can't fault Kim for wanting Red Sox fans to be able to police their forum instead of the way that it has become. Why attack for having those wishes. The forum SOSH is moderated and is not run by Yankee fans and imposters. Ben Cherrington has now joined the ranks of the J-Bay fraternity and is immune from being banned. Wimp.

    [/QUOTE]


    You realize SOSH is an extremely negative place right? They are never happy and you have to be selected to join.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I am a member of SOSH, and it's more vapid than this site.

    [/QUOTE]


    You Should Spend All Your Time On It Then, Not Here.....

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    Looking at BDC fan support of Ben's moves, none fell below the 50% treshhold:

     

    90% Uehara/Papi

    75% Gomes

    61% D Ross

    60% Victorino

    52% Dempster/Napoli

     

    63% gave Ben a rating of C or below. (82% C or above)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    You guys crack me up with the "good value" stuff. In terms of free agents, the majority of the time the only players who will be a "good value" is the Beltres and maybe the Cody Rosses of the world. And when the Sox sign these type players in the off season they get blased with crap like "we never sign top talent."

    What a lot of posters seem to not realize is that Ben is trying to make the team just good enough to watch and maybe stay within a few games out of a wildcard spot in Sept. He hasn't given one prospect away in the process and hasn't signed anyone over 3 years. I'm not defending all these moves, but last year was an absolute mess. If you know baseball you know it wasn't his fault- he was given a mess. And if you know baseball it should take more than a year to go from worst to first. The point? Let it play out a little bit.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    You need to ask two questions in general.  1) Did they spend alot of money?  Yep.  2) Did they improve the product on the field?  I dont see it.  I'd of rather gone with kids and had the same record give or take 5-7 wins.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to Wolfpack13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You guys crack me up with the "good value" stuff. In terms of free agents, the majority of the time the only players who will be a "good value" is the Beltres and maybe the Cody Rosses of the world. And when the Sox sign these type players in the off season they get blased with crap like "we never sign top talent."

    What a lot of posters seem to not realize is that Ben is trying to make the team just good enough to watch and maybe stay within a few games out of a wildcard spot in Sept. He hasn't given one prospect away in the process and hasn't signed anyone over 3 years. I'm not defending all these moves, but last year was an absolute mess. If you know baseball you know it wasn't his fault- he was given a mess. And if you know baseball it should take more than a year to go from worst to first. The point? Let it play out a little bit.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Beltre & Ross signings never won us a ring: the Manny one did. The Papi one did.  The Schill and Beckett trades did.

    We realize Ben is "trying to make the team good...", we just disagree with his methodology and choices.

    I never blamed Ben for "the mess" of 2012. I praised him for breaking the paradigm of "you can't fire the team" with the brilliant Dodger trade. He wiped the slate clean, but in my opinion, he smudged it back up again, but at a lesser longterm timeframe.

    Yes, let the games be played and his brilliance, or incompetanc,e or somewhere inbetween be proven.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to mthomas43's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You need to ask two questions in general.  1) Did they spend alot of money?  Yep.  2) Did they improve the product on the field?  I dont see it.  I'd of rather gone with kids and had the same record give or take 5-7 wins.

    [/QUOTE]


    Five to seven wins is a big spread. Five to seven wins could be an 88- to 90-win season instead of an 83-win season. With the extra wild card, 88 to 90 wins can get you in.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    You have to grade him based on their plan, not yours,  and if he accomplished it. not just your opinion of the move.

    The plan was to keep their prospects and not sign any long term deals. The "kids" arent ready yet and it would be real incompetence if BC allowed them to field a team of prospects that need to improve more.

    To do this they had to sign more FA than they probably wanted to. They had to overpay to get guys to sign for less years. FA are overpaid as it is, especially since BJ Upton makes 15M per for 5 years. Get used to high prices for FA and quit whining about overpaying.

    BC said he wanted to have a competitive team, which I think he has done. Are they a lock for the playoffs or even the WS? No. But anyone who expected this team to go from last to first was just kidding themselves.

    For what BC and Co. were trying to accomplish and what was available, they did good. Spend more $$ than Id like, but I understand how things work. Unlike some here.

    Cant give a final grade yet because its not over yet. Ill do that when ST is here.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    If his plan was to buy time for the prospects, his signings should have been structured so that when the prospects are ready, the signed players we still have are still in their prime, and not 80+.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If his plan was to buy time for the prospects, his signings should have been structured so that when the prospects are ready, the signed players we still have are still in their prime, and not 80+.

    [/QUOTE]


    seriously Moon? Most FA are about 30-34 years old. You know this. Very rarely is there a Manny out there. We have to be realistic. And if there is, it has to be a good fit. SV, MN, JG will all be 33-34 when their done. Sorry bro, thats not old. What it is is the backend of their prime. 27-32 are prime years.

    Usually your more realistic than this Moon.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If his plan was to buy time for the prospects, his signings should have been structured so that when the prospects are ready, the signed players we still have are still in their prime, and not 80+.

    [/QUOTE]


    seriously Moon? Most FA are about 30-34 years old. You know this. Very rarely is there a Manny out there. We have to be realistic. And if there is, it has to be a good fit. SV, MN, JG will all be 33-34 when their done. Sorry bro, thats not old. What it is is the backend of their prime. 27-32 are prime years.

    Usually your more realistic than this Moon.

    [/QUOTE]

    There were younger FAs than who we signed, and some were for 3 or less years. That is real.

    While you are right about these signings not being longterm and blocking our prospects, none will help us greatly in 2014 or 2015 when it seemed maybe with proper planning, we could have touched on being serious contneders.

    Also, nothing said we had to sign FAs just because they are there and can be signed for the highest price. I get the reasoning by Ben to make us appear to be a contending team, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I wouldn't mind some short bridge players for that purpose, but guys like Dempster and Victorino are going to decline in performance and take up budget space when we really need it: 2014 and 2015.

    As for prime, Dempster is beyond even the beginning of post-prime. Victorino should be worse by 2014-2015, and Naps is alredy showing sign of needing a walker soon. That's $39M a year until the end of 2015. I am certain that $39M will be needed in 2015, and these guys will likely be no more than bit role players.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to mthomas43's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You need to ask two questions in general.  1) Did they spend alot of money?  Yep.  2) Did they improve the product on the field?  I dont see it.  I'd of rather gone with kids and had the same record give or take 5-7 wins.

    [/QUOTE]

    You don't get it do you...the questions everyone should be asking is 1) did they go out and sign major league players to improve the product on the field? Yep. 2) Would paying Sox fans at Fenway PArk want to absorb the highest ticket prices in baseball for the rag-o-muffins that ended the season last year?? ABSOLUTELY NOT!


    Now my thoughts on the OP...grading the players so negatively before any of them have even taken the field is ludicrous...let's at least give these guys a chance to show what they can do here?

    • Ross - was acquired to serve as a BACKUP catcher...period!
    • Gomes - I'm not sure about why they acquired him when Ross would have been a better fit, but he'll hurt the wall at home when he's in there.
    • Napoli - although not in the fold, is likely the best 1B on the free agent market, although some might argue about LaRoche...but if healthy Napoli could do some damage at Fenway, plain and simple.
    • Victorino - Solid major league player who experienced a down year. The Sox had no intent to sign Hamilton or Upton so he was probably the next best fit for RF on the market.
    • Dempster - I don't understand the hate spewed at this guy...he has been an effective starter in the majors for years and he fills a hole in the rotation that needed to be filled. Any free agent starter would come with some level of baggage so I don't get it.
    • Uehara - a strong add for the bullpen which may provide additional flexibility if a trade is in the works.

    All in all, my guess is that no matter what players were brought in the naysayers here would criticize the move for the player being overpaid, too old, not experienced for Boston, he's not an ace/5 tool player, etc.

    There will be plenty of time to rake Cherington over the coals if these moves don't provide results but I'm sure the most common gripers here already have there comments queued up and ready to spew once any of these guys fails in a game situation.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If his plan was to buy time for the prospects, his signings should have been structured so that when the prospects are ready, the signed players we still have are still in their prime, and not 80+.

    [/QUOTE]


    seriously Moon? Most FA are about 30-34 years old. You know this. Very rarely is there a Manny out there. We have to be realistic. And if there is, it has to be a good fit. SV, MN, JG will all be 33-34 when their done. Sorry bro, thats not old. What it is is the backend of their prime. 27-32 are prime years.

    Usually your more realistic than this Moon.

    [/QUOTE]

    There were younger FAs than who we signed, and some were for 3 or less years. That is real.

    While you are right about these signings not being longterm and blocking our prospects, none will help us greatly in 2014 or 2015 when it seemed maybe with proper planning, we could have touched on being serious contneders.

    Also, nothing said we had to sign FAs just because they are there and can be signed for the highest price. I get the reasoning by Ben to make us appear to be a contending team, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I wouldn't mind some short bridge players for that purpose, but guys like Dempster and Victorino are going to decline in performance and take up budget space when we really need it: 2014 and 2015.

    As for prime, Dempster is beyond even the beginning of post-prime. Victorino should be worse by 2014-2015, and Naps is alredy showing sign of needing a walker soon. That's $39M a year until the end of 2015. I am certain that $39M will be needed in 2015, and these guys will likely be no more than bit role players.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree there wasnt  much as far as FA this year, but not too many young ones that wouldve fit well or even wanted to come here.

    We can unload any of these guys if need be. I dont think they will be as bad as you think Moon. Im not sure Naps will sign either. Have to wait and see. These moves do fit into the Sox plan for the immediate and future of the team.

    I was very happy to see they didnt throw away the "kids" in the system. Cant field a team every year with FA.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

    Really, when you get down to it, the real key as far as the offense is concerned is Napoli -- if he turns out to be the No. 3 hitter. If he can be a solid No. 3 hitter 25 HRs, 80-plus RBIs then the rest of the key to the offense, assuming Ellsbury and Pedroia are at the top, is if Ortiz and Middlebrooks hit like they did last year before their injuries at the 4 and 5 spot. If that happens, then the top of the offense will be very strong, and the bottom of the order should be competetent.

    Then it comes down to pitching. The key again is more of the returning players -- Lester, Buchholz and Lackey all bouncing back strong.

    In both cases for the pitching and the offense, the most important keys to next year has always been the returning players bouncing back strong or picking up where they left off (Ortiz and Middlebrooks).

    I have mixed feelings about the signings.

    I would have rathered had LaRoche over Napoli, but I understand not wanting to lose the draft pick.

    I'm not big fan of Gomes, but he's a good guy and maybe he'll be a creature of Fenway. I would rather have Cody Ross back.

    Drew's as good as anyone else for SS because Iggy simply isn't ready. Like I posted before, he's just 22. If it takes two years, he'll still be just 24.

    Victorino's fine, but I'm hoping that Kalish rakes in spring training and gets off to a strong start where it's hard to keep him off the field.

    I like the idea of having short-term fixes and not rushing guys like Bradley, Bogarts and Brentz, but I also hope that the Sox don't get too cautious with bringing these guys up. As soon as any of them along with others like Barnes some of the other pitchers look to be ready -- bring them up regardless of the contract status' of anyone in front.

    And maybe Salty gets traded and Lavarnway hits in the majors like he did in the minors in 2010.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from baddad. Show baddad's posts

    Re: Ben Cherington Incompetence and Grades

     lets keep it simple ben is an idiot and his moves were idiotic   wake up people

     
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