Ben do we really need Papi to return?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    I, too, think it would be better to let him walk.  There are much cheaper options that will be nearly as productive.  The two draft picks cannot be dismissed from the calculation either.
    Posted by parhunter1


    I am waiting for you to name them.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    He did not hit 30 homers in 2011, and has only hit 30+ once in 4 years.... please tell us what is so FREAKING great about that? Stop FREAKING acting like Ortiz is the 35/115 guy of days long GONE.
    Posted by BurritoT


    Oh please! Name another DH in the league that was as productive as Ortiz.
    You can't!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    Papi was not a leader this year and even seemed selfish.  He feels he has not been treated well even though Francona showed incredible patience with him as he struggled in 2009 and early 2010.  I think what he offers is not particularly essential, the days of him being a defining player on the Red Sox are over. I would let him go. He is not happy and will not be most likely next year.
    Posted by concord27


    He hit .329 vs LHP this year! That's right .329. Everyone used to say that he needed to platoon against LHP, then he goes out and proves everyone wrong. Yet moronic posters on the forum think the team is better off with Youk (who can't stay on the field) or DH by committee.
    Ortiz should have been extended before the season ended. Chances are he will end up in Baltimore or Toronto, and be our worst nightmare.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return? : Should he only stay so he can retire as a Sox? That is not good baseball is it? Papi within the last few years has really shot off his mouth, got paid big bucks, really had no leadership qualities (this year for sure on the field), can't play D, and lacks any effort runwise.  Papi will always be remembered for his Sox career and his heroics regardless of whether or not he retires in a Sox uni. But those heroics left years ago. The Sox should not offer him any more overpriced contracts. Reality is, he would have already been offered something if teams were interested. The Sox will survive without Papi, and the Sox can't afford to keep players just so they can retire in a Sox uniform. Otherwise, there are 2 other players then that have to be kept: V-tek and Wake.
    Posted by antiqueman1


    Amazing how you twist my words. I didn't say the reason we should keep is to retire a Sox. The reason to keep him is that he is the best DH in the AL, and the most productive. As far as shooting off his mouth, be specific. And for the record, only he, Wake and Tek have earned the right to say what they want as they have been the most loyal of players, and have the longest tenure.
    Tell me antiqueman, who will replace his production?
    Overpriced contract for a guy who hit 29 HRs, BA of .300+, drove in close to 100, had an OBP of .398 and hit LHP at a .329 clip?
    I thought you were supposed to be one of the smarter guys here but you are letting your emotions control your judgement.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingOSmakk. Show KingOSmakk's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    What if I come back in really good shape?


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    Vlad is definitely an option Last four years:  --Average--.297  --139 games per year --Hits 154 per --21 doubles --21 HR's --80 RBI --30 walks --62 K's --Salary 2011--$8 M 2011 Just 13 HR's--no protection compared to 2010 with Texas --29 HR's If I'm signing a DH FA I would go with Papi but for no more than $8 since I could probably sign Vlad for $5 plus incentives.
    Posted by MadMc44


    Sure. His number s aren't even close to Ortiz, especially the OBP....it's in the tank. Yup, you could probably get Vlad for $5M, given an OPS 0f .733.
    Ortiz had an OPS of .953, lifetime .922. He is worth all of $10M, at least. We are paying a mediocre SS $6M, and you think Papi is only worth $8M? Man, I'm glad you are not the GM of this team.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from KingOSmakk. Show KingOSmakk's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    I am Ben but please call me "Benji", or BenDover.

    Or Theo Lite.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Name another team that chooses to sit their "DH" in inter-league play rather than put him in the field.  Name another DH who waddles down the first base line, only hustling if the ball clears the fences. Name another DH who questions management and makes a scene during press conference, and then tell us how such actions in no way contributed to the clubhouse/team collapse. Tell us how many other DH's in 2009, and 2010 essentially batted -.220 for an entire half year.  Tell us how many other teams are willing to to sign a 36 year old one dimensional player to a 3 year deal because they "deserve it".

    Do tell.

    If we can aquire a thirdbaseman I am certain Youk can easily hit 25 homers and drive in 90 runs... and play three defensive positions if called upon.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    Name another team that chooses to sit their "DH" in inter-league play rather than put him in the field.  Name another DH who waddles down the first base line, only hustling if the ball clears the fences. Name another DH who questions management and makes a scene during press conference, and then tell us how such actions in no way contributed to the clubhouse/team collapse. Tell us how many other DH's in 2009, and 2010 essentially batted -.220 for an entire half year.  Tell us how many other teams are willing to to sign a 36 year old one dimensional player to a 3 year deal because they "deserve it". Do tell. If we can aquire a thirdbaseman I am certain Youk can easily hit 25 homers and drive in 90 runs... and play three defensive positions if called upon.
    Posted by BurritoT


    Phillies.  Ibanez.

    Game. Set. Match....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    I doubt the Sox go heavy after Ortiz.  They'll offer him arbitration, and if anyone wants him more they get a draft pick.

    If he accepts, they can live with him as a one year commitment...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return? : Phillies.  Ibanez. Game. Set. Match....
    Posted by notin


    lolSurprised
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    I doubt the Sox go heavy after Ortiz.  They'll offer him arbitration, and if anyone wants him more they get a draft pick. If he accepts, they can live with him as a one year commitment...
    Posted by notin

    I heard on WEEI early last night that the Sox are planning to offer Ortiz 6 million a year..since they feel that is what his market value is. Considering that no one is beating down the door with offers..it appears this could be correct. One of the WEEI clowns was saying that offering him 6 million is disrespectful and that he should be offered more. They also talked about how emotional Ortiz is and that if he only makes 6 million then he will spend all of next year sulking and be basically useless.
    If any of that is true..it sounds to me like the Sox should just walk away from Ortiz. He has had some good years..thanks for the memories..and so on..but probably time to move on.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Name another team that chooses to sit their "DH" in inter-league play rather than put him in the field. 

    The key word here is "chooses". The Red Sox could play Ortiz at 1B, but choose not to. Tough call to replace Agon in the line-up.

     Name another DH who waddles down the first base line, only hustling if the ball clears the fences.

    While I agree that Papi doesn't run out the balls in play like he should, many other Sox players do the same, even Ells. To say that he only hustles when he hits it out is rediculous.

    Name another DH who questions management and makes a scene during press conference, and then tell us how such actions in no way contributed to the clubhouse/team collapse.

    This is pure speculation on your part, and I'm sure players question management all the time. Perhaps he used poor judement in making it public but you and I don't have all the facts as to why.

    Tell us how many other DH's in 2009, and 2010 essentially batted -.220 for an entire half year. 

    Better than batting .220 for an entire year.....we had a few of those.
    Sure he struggled early in those two seasons, but finished strong which is what counts. 


     Tell us how many other teams are willing to to sign a 36 year old one dimensional player to a 3 year deal because they "deserve it".

    Nobody said he deserved a 3 year deal. Has he earned one? IMO, yes. No one player has done what he has done for this team for the past 8 seasons.
    Would I offer him 3 years? No. But I'd give him 2 with a club option for a 3rd

     
    If we can aquire a thirdbaseman I am certain Youk can easily hit 25 homers and drive in 90 runs... and play three defensive positions if called upon.

    Maybe. But can he stay on the field? since 2004, Papi has averaged 145 games a season, and that was with the bad wrist year where he only played 109 games in '08. Youk, on the other hand, has averaged 114 games. That's 31 games with no production.
    Youk's 162 game avg for HRs and RBIs over his career is 23 and 98 respectively. For 114 games, it's 16 and 68, which is much more realistic.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Didn't Papi have the 3rd highest BA among DH's last year? 

    As long as Papi stays on the juice, then sign him to a 2 year contract.  If he goes off the juice, then he's not worth a cent.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Add this to the talk about rebuilding team culture. Big Papi played a signifciant role in the last team, Theo's team, culture. Love big Papi, but allow him to walk.

    Move Yuk to DH. He will thrive with limted injury opportunites. He stays there for the remainder of his contract. Give 3rd to Jed, but rest him every four days and play Mark there. 

    Let one of the kids play RF. 

    THe team is still way productive...  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return? : I heard on WEEI early last night that the Sox are planning to offer Ortiz 6 million a year..since they feel that is what his market value is. Considering that no one is beating down the door with offers..it appears this could be correct. One of the WEEI clowns was saying that offering him 6 million is disrespectful and that he should be offered more. They also talked about how emotional Ortiz is and that if he only makes 6 million then he will spend all of next year sulking and be basically useless. If any of that is true..it sounds to me like the Sox should just walk away from Ortiz. He has had some good years..thanks for the memories..and so on..but probably time to move on.
    Posted by miscricket


    deal done! perfect

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:

    Who is Mark?????


    Add this to the talk about rebuilding team culture. Big Papi played a signifciant role in the last team, Theo's team, culture. Love big Papi, but allow him to walk. Move Yuk to DH. He will thrive with limted injury opportunites. He stays there for the remainder of his contract. Give 3rd to Jed, but rest him every four days and play Mark there.  Let one of the kids play RF.  THe team is still way productive...  
    Posted by proftom


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    If he wants to sign a one year dealmfor $8 million I would approve that in a second.... if only that were an option.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    1 deal for 6-8 with club option for second year, that becomes player option if 500 PA.....Yes.  2-3 year deal at $12m...no.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    yes, papi did play a significant role in last years team.  His one homer and few extra base hits in september, was a big reason for the team's collapse.

    Ortiz can barely make it to first wihout getting winded. He is not capable of playing first base.

    Already ortiz is playing the respect card.  He should realize that hitting 29 homers in the middle of the season, is not a big deal any longer.  Save the money for jacoby, who I think hit more homers then ortiz, and plays a position and steals more bases.

    The team is going younger and if david wants a place, then here is an idea for him.  Home town discount.

    Has any one seen david in boston in the off season before?  amazing how players behave when they are begging for a contract.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Hands down I give the decisive edge to Alibiike in this debate. Ortiz is the best pure DH in the game. He's a beloved Red Sox figure who can help the new manager tremendously with turning around the poor morale on the team. He deserves and will be offered at least a 2 yr $10 million per yr deal with incentives. There may or may not be a 3rd yr team or player option, but I'd rather not unless absolutely necessary. Letting Ortiz walk would be a stupid mistake, especially in light of last seasons debacle and the sour impact on the fanbase. Stop dawdling Ben and pay the man!@!!!!




    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    Name another team that chooses to sit their "DH" in inter-league play rather than put him in the field.  The key word here is "chooses". The Red Sox could play Ortiz at 1B, but choose not to. Tough call to replace Agon in the line-up.  Name another DH who waddles down the first base line, only hustling if the ball clears the fences. While I agree that Papi doesn't run out the balls in play like he should, many other Sox players do the same, even Ells. To say that he only hustles when he hits it out is rediculous. Name another DH who questions management and makes a scene during press conference, and then tell us how such actions in no way contributed to the clubhouse/team collapse. This is pure speculation on your part, and I'm sure players question management all the time. Perhaps he used poor judement in making it public but you and I don't have all the facts as to why. Tell us how many other DH's in 2009, and 2010 essentially batted -.220 for an entire half year.  Better than batting .220 for an entire year.....we had a few of those. Sure he struggled early in those two seasons, but finished strong which is what counts.   Tell us how many other teams are willing to to sign a 36 year old one dimensional player to a 3 year deal because they "deserve it". Nobody said he deserved a 3 year deal. Has he earned one? IMO, yes. No one player has done what he has done for this team for the past 8 seasons. Would I offer him 3 years? No. But I'd give him 2 with a club option for a 3rd   If we can aquire a thirdbaseman I am certain Youk can easily hit 25 homers and drive in 90 runs... and play three defensive positions if called upon. Maybe. But can he stay on the field? since 2004, Papi has averaged 145 games a season, and that was with the bad wrist year where he only played 109 games in '08. Youk, on the other hand, has averaged 114 games. That's 31 games with no production. Youk's 162 game avg for HRs and RBIs over his career is 23 and 98 respectively. For 114 games, it's 16 and 68, which is much more realistic.
    Posted by Alibiike

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Ortiz help the team? Like when he burst into theo's press conference. I doubt if the new manager will be looking to Ortiz for advice. Time is getting short and if Ortiz does not take the offer soon, he will have to wait until after the winter meetings. Once again just because other players may jog to first, it does not make it right for papi.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Ahhh yes. The too often whined about snapshot in time some use to falsely portray Ortiz as some bad clubhouse guy. The fact is that anyone with knowledge of the subject know that Ortiz has been known as a GREAT clubhouse guy for his entire career. He's a cheerful guy who's gone out of his way to take rookies under his wing,etc. Just this season past he worked tirelessly with Salty, for instance. If you want to attack Ortiz, you'd better look for another angle because no reasonable person would buy that one. This was a crazy, depressing season for many Red Sox players and fans. I'd give the guy a mulligan if he whined once.




    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    Ortiz help the team? Like when he burst into theo's press conference. I doubt if the new manager will be looking to Ortiz for advice. Time is getting short and if Ortiz does not take the offer soon, he will have to wait until after the winter meetings. Once again just because other players may jog to first, it does not make it right for papi.
    Posted by jackbu

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    Ah yes all too often we rewind to a snapshot of Ortiz carying the team on his back as if it is all too common these past 3 years... yes all too often.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?

    In Response to Re: Ben do we really need Papi to return?:
    Ah yes all too often we rewind to a snapshot of Ortiz carying the team on his back as if it is all too common these past 3 years... yes all too often.
    Posted by BurritoT


    The man had a .953 OPS this year - 7th best in all of baseball.  If the rest of the offense had been struggling, you would have had the sense that he was putting the team on his back.  He looked like Babe Ruth next to Jason Kubel.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share