Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac. Show pinstripezac's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    Ben is on target for building one of the top minor league organizations in all of baseball. Yes...the draft is one way....the other, IMO, is. Sign players to rich contracts on short deals and then deal them along with some more cash to contending teams at the deadline for top fLight prospects. He now has acquired some serious, very appealing trade chips if we are not in the hunt at the deadline. Ells, Hanafan, Salty, Bailey, Drew, Napoli, Gomes,and Lester if he bounces back. I think it is brilliant what he has done, if his goal is to build a top flight organization...from top to bottom. After all.....that was Theo,s plan all along before these owners got sidetracked. Great job Ben....keep it up



    other than lester

    U R definitely overreaching with the 'top fLight prospects ' talk

    but your point has merit

    he could trade them for a sleeper who turns out to be a top player

     
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    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    Ben is on target for building one of the top minor league organizations in all of baseball. Yes...the draft is one way....the other, IMO, is. Sign players to rich contracts on short deals and then deal them along with some more cash to contending teams at the deadline for top fLight prospects. He now has acquired some serious, very appealing trade chips if we are not in the hunt at the deadline. Ells, Hanafan, Salty, Bailey, Drew, Napoli, Gomes,and Lester if he bounces back. I think it is brilliant what he has done, if his goal is to build a top flight organization...from top to bottom. After all.....that was Theo,s plan all along before these owners got sidetracked. Great job Ben....keep it up



    Also, it's possible Drew and Napoli could perform well enough to get a QO and a contract from another team, which would deliver more picks.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    Ben spent another $150M?

    Some was spent by Theo and carried over.

    Much was dumped by Ben. Does that count for anything?

    Under Ben's watch (numbers are rounded off & not counting '12 contract savings):

    Saved:

    AGon $132+M

    Craw $102+M (-$12M in payments)= $90M

    Beckett $34+M

    Punto  $1.5+M

    That's about $258+M saved.

    Spent:

    Victorino $39M/3

    Dempster $26.5M/2

    Gomes  $10M/2

    S Drew  $9.5M/1

    D Ross   $6.2M/2

    Napoli  $5M+M/1

    Uehara $4.25M/1

    From last winter:

    Cody Ross $3M/1

    Padilla  $1.5M/1

    Shoppach $1.35M/1

    Total : $106M spent on FAs.

    (More was spent on arbs, trades for higher priced players like Hanrahan.) 

     

    While I am not supporting Ben's signings this winter, he has saved the team more money than he has newly spent.

     
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    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac. Show pinstripezac's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    in response to makonikyman's comment:

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     

     




    in other words

    billy beane on steroids

     

    nothing wrong with that but

    once again U R overreaching with the ' brilliant ' talk

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     



    1) You are assuming these guys will do well and be wanted later this year. While it could be true, spending over $100M on FAs this year in hopes of getting a few prospects is pretty sketchy to say the least.

    2) How about just spending the $100+M on a FA who is actually good enough to help us for the next 5 years? Wow, there is a novel idea.

    3) How about trading our players that will be FAs the next year or two (Ellsbury, Salty, and some of the 2014 FAs to be) for some good prospects? 

    4) He might be able to get a prospect here or there for some of these FAs, but do you really think this is the best way to use $100+M for at most a handful of decent but not top prospects? "Brilliant"?

     

    I hope you are right, because I do not see anything else too good about these signings. I really did not think 2 summers of dumping salary was going to be the plan, and I am not sure Ben sees it that way either.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.



    No, I think the best we can say about them is that they are making us a playoff contender.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    in response to makonikyman's comment:

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     

     




    in other words

    billy beane on steroids

     

    nothing wrong with that but

    once again U R overreaching with the ' brilliant ' talk



    These things don't usually work.  Beane used to be accused of that, but none of the guys he signed got much back in return.  There is probably more value from the QO perspective than the trade perspective.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac. Show pinstripezac's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:



    These things don't usually work.  Beane used to be accused of that, but none of the guys he signed got much back in return.  There is probably more value from the QO perspective than the trade perspective.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    maybe more value JB

    but even more a longshot to get a draft pick

    compared to getting an ex prospect

    no thoughts or didn't U C my joba question 2U last night

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     



    No, I think the best we can say about them is that they are making us a playoff contender.

     



    I meant  "best" and realistic.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    150 million plus and the comment is "should make us a playoff contender". Embarrassing.

    As for "he's spending money and I don't care". You will care when a boat load of money is sucking the 2014 and 2015 budget away from much younger, better values and fits.




    you whine a lot

     
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    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In that vein, Ben Cherington will have competition from the Mariners, who this offseason added single-season commitments to Kendrys Morales, Mike Morse, Raul Ibanez and Jason Bay. Seattle GM Jack Zduriencik has a reputation for acquiring assets with an eye for flipping them for a net gain. Zduriencik will have opportunities at the trade deadline in the likely event that the Mariners are not in contention.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     

     



    1) You are assuming these guys will do well and be wanted later this year. While it could be true, spending over $100M on FAs this year in hopes of getting a few prospects is pretty sketchy to say the least.

     

    2) How about just spending the $100+M on a FA who is actually good enough to help us for the next 5 years? Wow, there is a novel idea.

    3) How about trading our players that will be FAs the next year or two (Ellsbury, Salty, and some of the 2014 FAs to be) for some good prospects? 

    4) He might be able to get a prospect here or there for some of these FAs, but do you really think this is the best way to use $100+M for at most a handful of decent but not top prospects? "Brilliant"?

     

    I hope you are right, because I do not see anything else too good about these signings. I really did not think 2 summers of dumping salary was going to be the plan, and I am not sure Ben sees it that way either.



    Moon I'm surprised you have fallen to Softy's normal comment. If you put all your eggs on Hamilton's plate with nothing around him--it's a recipe for disaster. Yes nothing--we have no idea whether Ortiz comes back and in what playing condition. WMB--no guarantee. Was Salty  power surge a flash in the pan, etc--I like multiple signings--we need a Left Handed bat like Jones or Carp to alternate at 1 b and LF.

    In addition BenC--should the Sox crash early, will be able to move ShaVic and Nap and Ue and Hanny for prospects. I think it was a great offseason for BenC and the Sox. If we crash and burn we do get to see some of our prospects for the second half--if not we see a competitive team down the stretch. I don't know about you all but I don't see an AL East team running away with the division.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     

     



    1) You are assuming these guys will do well and be wanted later this year. While it could be true, spending over $100M on FAs this year in hopes of getting a few prospects is pretty sketchy to say the least.

     

    2) How about just spending the $100+M on a FA who is actually good enough to help us for the next 5 years? Wow, there is a novel idea.

    3) How about trading our players that will be FAs the next year or two (Ellsbury, Salty, and some of the 2014 FAs to be) for some good prospects? 

    4) He might be able to get a prospect here or there for some of these FAs, but do you really think this is the best way to use $100+M for at most a handful of decent but not top prospects? "Brilliant"?

     

    I hope you are right, because I do not see anything else too good about these signings. I really did not think 2 summers of dumping salary was going to be the plan, and I am not sure Ben sees it that way either.

     



    Moon I'm surprised you have fallen to Softy's normal comment. If you put all your eggs on Hamilton's plate with nothing around him--it's a recipe for disaster. Yes nothing--we have no idea whether Ortiz comes back and in what playing condition. WMB--no guarantee. Was Salty  power surge a flash in the pan, etc--I like multiple signings--we need a Left Handed bat like Jones or Carp to alternate at 1 b and LF.

     

    In addition BenC--should the Sox crash early, will be able to move ShaVic and Nap and Ue and Hanny for prospects. I think it was a great offseason for BenC and the Sox. If we crash and burn we do get to see some of our prospects for the second half--if not we see a competitive team down the stretch. I don't know about you all but I don't see an AL East team running away with the division.



    I have never said we should have signed ha,ilton-- only that it would have been better than what we did. Of all the high-priced FAs, I'd have gone after Sanchez, but frankly, I'm glad we got none of them. I only wish we'd have gotten one guy who will help us significantly in 2014 and beyond.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     

     



    1) You are assuming these guys will do well and be wanted later this year. While it could be true, spending over $100M on FAs this year in hopes of getting a few prospects is pretty sketchy to say the least.

     

    2) How about just spending the $100+M on a FA who is actually good enough to help us for the next 5 years? Wow, there is a novel idea.

    3) How about trading our players that will be FAs the next year or two (Ellsbury, Salty, and some of the 2014 FAs to be) for some good prospects? 

    4) He might be able to get a prospect here or there for some of these FAs, but do you really think this is the best way to use $100+M for at most a handful of decent but not top prospects? "Brilliant"?

     

    I hope you are right, because I do not see anything else too good about these signings. I really did not think 2 summers of dumping salary was going to be the plan, and I am not sure Ben sees it that way either.

     



    Moon I'm surprised you have fallen to Softy's normal comment. If you put all your eggs on Hamilton's plate with nothing around him--it's a recipe for disaster. Yes nothing--we have no idea whether Ortiz comes back and in what playing condition. WMB--no guarantee. Was Salty  power surge a flash in the pan, etc--I like multiple signings--we need a Left Handed bat like Jones or Carp to alternate at 1 b and LF.

     

    In addition BenC--should the Sox crash early, will be able to move ShaVic and Nap and Ue and Hanny for prospects. I think it was a great offseason for BenC and the Sox. If we crash and burn we do get to see some of our prospects for the second half--if not we see a competitive team down the stretch. I don't know about you all but I don't see an AL East team running away with the division.

     



    I agree...it,s a win/win. If we strike lightning in a bottle and we stay healthy then we,re in the hunt. If not, we will have the option of adding more prospects to the stable. There was nobody out there ( Hamilton etc..) this year to sign that would have put us at or near the top on paper. Way too many question marks for this team. We are at least 2 yrs away from making a splash in free agency for a player that could be the missing piece imo. In the meantime, fill the roster with higcharacter er players with something left in the tank who have something to prove and let the young players learn from them. I,m going to rather enjoy watching the next couple of years seeing the young guys come up. Rather that than hear Agon whine, or Beckett mumble,etc...

     



    Great points....The Sox Front Office didn't panic or succumb to the "monster" this off season for what seems like the first time in a while.  They put together a team that can compete if relatively healthy, they maintained future financial flexibility, they kept their farm system intact and they cleaned up a truly toxic clubhouse environment.  It may not have been "Plan A," but when you consider the alternatives and what players were actually available this offseason, I would say the offseason has been a success.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ben has done a great job buying prospects ....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to makonikyman's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    I do think it is pretty sad that the best we can say about Ben's signings is that we might be able to get something for them in trade this July or next winter/July for the 2-3 year players.

     



    Why is that? There are a lot of ways to build an entire organization. A TRUE...deep farm system. A team cannot just buy a prospect off of another team, but what they can  do is sign Lot of players that they feel other teams in contention may want come the trading deadline and trade them to them ( along with picking up some of the contract ) in return for a pretty darn good prospect . I see it as a solid stradegy. Only a hand full of the wealthiest teams could pull it off....I think it is brilliant

     

     



    1) You are assuming these guys will do well and be wanted later this year. While it could be true, spending over $100M on FAs this year in hopes of getting a few prospects is pretty sketchy to say the least.

     

    2) How about just spending the $100+M on a FA who is actually good enough to help us for the next 5 years? Wow, there is a novel idea.

    3) How about trading our players that will be FAs the next year or two (Ellsbury, Salty, and some of the 2014 FAs to be) for some good prospects? 

    4) He might be able to get a prospect here or there for some of these FAs, but do you really think this is the best way to use $100+M for at most a handful of decent but not top prospects? "Brilliant"?

     

    I hope you are right, because I do not see anything else too good about these signings. I really did not think 2 summers of dumping salary was going to be the plan, and I am not sure Ben sees it that way either.

     



    Moon I'm surprised you have fallen to Softy's normal comment. If you put all your eggs on Hamilton's plate with nothing around him--it's a recipe for disaster. Yes nothing--we have no idea whether Ortiz comes back and in what playing condition. WMB--no guarantee. Was Salty  power surge a flash in the pan, etc--I like multiple signings--we need a Left Handed bat like Jones or Carp to alternate at 1 b and LF.

     

    In addition BenC--should the Sox crash early, will be able to move ShaVic and Nap and Ue and Hanny for prospects. I think it was a great offseason for BenC and the Sox. If we crash and burn we do get to see some of our prospects for the second half--if not we see a competitive team down the stretch. I don't know about you all but I don't see an AL East team running away with the division.

     



    I have never said we should have signed ha,ilton-- only that it would have been better than what we did. Of all the high-priced FAs, I'd have gone after Sanchez, but frankly, I'm glad we got none of them. I only wish we'd have gotten one guy who will help us significantly in 2014 and beyond.

     



    Moon--I thought you were referring to JHam when you threw out the $100 M number. 

    I would love to have all your comments going back to October---I could have sworn I saw the mention of Ham in a Sox Uni...more than once... any other posters remember seeing that? A little support...anybody...

    I'm glad to see he was not on your Sox signings list.

     

     
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