Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't know why we're quibbling about the signing or non-signing of another mediocre outfielder, when SF has shown that it's almost all about pitching and a little bit of timely hitting.

    [/QUOTE]

    A sample size of one team proves nothing.  The 2011 WS featured two offensive teams (Cards, Rangers).

    There are many ways to win a championship.  Elite pitching / timely hitting may be the simplest way, but it certainly isnt the only way.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the real question mark is Victorino worth more than 5 million more than Ross a year x3? look at ther stats last year and tell me who was the better player.....

    gomes is insurance - i understand that....but seems like an unnecessary gamble imo letting cody walk and getting shane for 3/39

    [/QUOTE]

    Vic is a GG CF and a GG RF.  Ross is horrid defensively.

    Ross, in a neutral park, will hit about 22 HR.  Shane will hit about 17 HR (he hit 17 in 2010, 17 in 2011, throw away 2012, he had a broken hand).  Lets call batting average a wash (even though Vic's career BA is in the .270's, while Ross' is in the .260s).

    Shane is an elite baserunner (39 steals in only 45 attempts last year).

    So...

    Shane is elite defensively, Ross is a trainwreck defensively

    Shane is an elite baserunner, Ross has no speed

    Batting average is a wash.  Ross has a bit more power.

    Yes, Vic is 5M / yr better than Ross. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't know why we're quibbling about the signing or non-signing of another mediocre outfielder, when SF has shown that it's almost all about pitching and a little bit of timely hitting.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Ross turned down a QO (which his quote indicates he would have) the Sox would have got a high pick.  The Sox need as many picks as possible with the new CBA rules to produce the next 

    Matthew Thomas Cain (born October 1, 1984) ... was selected by the Giants in the first round (25th overall) in the 2002 MLB Draft

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't know why we're quibbling about the signing or non-signing of another mediocre outfielder, when SF has shown that it's almost all about pitching and a little bit of timely hitting.

    [/QUOTE]

    If Ross turned down a QO (which his quote indicates he would have) the Sox would have got a high pick.  The Sox need as many picks as possible with the new CBA rules to produce the next 

    Matthew Thomas Cain (born October 1, 1984) ... was selected by the Giants in the first round (25th overall) in the 2002 MLB Draft

    [/QUOTE]

    1-Where in his quote did he say he would've turned down the QO?

    2-There is no guarantee that AZ signs him if they are forced to give up the #15.

    It is interesting to note that only two draft picks have been surrendered thus far.  Atlanta gave up their #25 (?) for a $75M player, and LAA gave up their #21 for a $125M.  I need to be convinced that AZ would give up their #16 for a $26M player.  The likelihood is that AZ would've gone onto their next choice, and even if Ross declined the QO, he'd have been signed by someone with a protected pick.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the real question mark is Victorino worth more than 5 million more than Ross a year x3? look at ther stats last year and tell me who was the better player.....

    gomes is insurance - i understand that....but seems like an unnecessary gamble imo letting cody walk and getting shane for 3/39

    [/QUOTE]

    Vic is a GG CF and a GG RF.  Ross is horrid defensively.

    Ross, in a neutral park, will hit about 22 HR.  Shane will hit about 17 HR (he hit 17 in 2010, 17 in 2011, throw away 2012, he had a broken hand).  Lets call batting average a wash (even though Vic's career BA is in the .270's, while Ross' is in the .260s).

    Shane is an elite baserunner (39 steals in only 45 attempts last year).

    So...

    Shane is elite defensively, Ross is a trainwreck defensively

    Shane is an elite baserunner, Ross has no speed

    Batting average is a wash.  Ross has a bit more power.

    Yes, Vic is 5M / yr better than Ross. 

    [/QUOTE]

    +1 drewski. couldn't agree more

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

     


    1-Where in his quote did he say he would've turned down the QO?

    "At first I thought no, but the closer it got to the deadline I thought it was possible," said Ross when asked if he believed there was a chance the Red Sox would submit the qualifying offer. "Obviously, when it passed they didn't offer, which is actually a good thing for me because now I don't have the draft pick attached to me as a free agent. 

     



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to trouts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't know why we're quibbling about the signing or non-signing of another mediocre outfielder, when SF has shown that it's almost all about pitching and a little bit of timely hitting.

    [/QUOTE]

    A sample size of one team proves nothing.  The 2011 WS featured two offensive teams (Cards, Rangers).

    There are many ways to win a championship.  Elite pitching / timely hitting may be the simplest way, but it certainly isnt the only way.

    [/QUOTE]It's just an opinion on my part but in a post steroid era, as a GM I'd opt for elite pitching and timely hitting, especially if contracts for hitters like ARod, Pujols and Hamilton continue to be insanely high.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    1-Where in his quote did he say he would've turned down the QO?

    "At first I thought no, but the closer it got to the deadline I thought it was possible," said Ross when asked if he believed there was a chance the Red Sox would submit the qualifying offer. "Obviously, when it passed they didn't offer, which is actually a good thing for me because now I don't have the draft pick attached to me as a free agent. 

     



    [/QUOTE]

    Basically, Ross is agreeing with me, saying that the RS not making a QO helped him land a bigger contract, implying that he would've had an issue landing a contract if a QOhad been made, implying he would've accepted it.  

    It does not say, does not imply, and does not even hint at him turning it down.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ben should have made Ross a qualifying offer.

     

    Basically, Ross is agreeing with me, saying that the RS not making a QO helped him land a bigger contract, implying that he would've had an issue landing a contract if a QOhad been made, implying he would've accepted it.  

    It does not say, does not imply, and does not even hint at him turning it down.

    [/QUOTE]


    "which is actually a good thing for me"

    The opposite of a good thing is a bad thing.  Therefore, when he said it is actually a good thing it means the QO would hav been a bad thing.  

    So you are saying he didn't want the QO, but would feel forced to take it if offerred b/c of the pick problem.

    So which is it Joe, before you said:

    It wouldn't make sense to gamble on a $21M/3 contract.  The marginal gain is $7.7M/2, more than a one-year deal for $13.3M.  The downside is that he gets hurt and loses $7.7M.  The upside is that he is healthy and gets the same offer next year.

    But, before you thought he would take it because it was good offer.

    • He has gone on the record many times about wanting a three year deal and in 2012 he took less to go at FA again:
    • A big risk taking the offer b/c he could end up getting platooned with the better fielding Kalish against RHP.
    • His career has been up and down, in 2010 and 2011 he was pretty poor, he would  not want to risk an injury or down year.

    I was talking to him throughout the offseason, seeing who was interested and who wasn’t, just kind of bouncing stuff off of each other,” Ross said during the season. “He had a little better season than I did last year, and got paid — rightfully so. I knew he was going to be one of the guys to set the market as far as power-hitting right-handers. Obviously I couldn’t compare myself to him, but I was so happy for him to be able to get his deal.”

    Willingham received a three-year, $21 million free agent deal from the Twins. Ross,

    meanwhile, took a one-year, $3 million deal with the Red Sox, opting to pass on two-year offers that would have given him more than $3 million per year (but less than $5 million per year)

    in hopes of going to a favorable hitting environment (a departure from Florida and San Francisco, both of whom play in parks and divisions that tend to be hostile to big power numbers) where he could boost his numbers in anticipation of another run at free agency following the 2012 season.

    The strategy paid off, as Ross slammed 22 homers in 130 games while hitting .267 with a .326 OBP, .481 slugging mark and .807 OPS, with his OBP and OPS both ranking as career-best marks for any season in which he had at least 200 plate appearances. That line closely resembled the one that Willingham delivered with the A’s (albeit in more challenging hitting environment) prior to getting his three-year deal from Minnesota.

    “I felt like this was a perfect spot for me to get my value back up and basically I rolled the dice on a one-year deal,” Ross said of Boston. “Hopefully it pays off.”

    It seems extremely likely that Ross will secure a multi-year deal, though it remains to be seen whether it’s with the Red Sox.  http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2012/10/29/cody-ross-and-the-pursuit-of-a-josh-willingham-deal

     

     
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