bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    To be fair his team is doing pretty well. I don't think he saw the situation like you did. 

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    same francona - watching the game slip away by doing nothing and reacting instead of being proactive....i dont care who your closer is, if they are in danger of losing the game, you remove him

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    Difference yesterday was 2 pitches, thats it.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    About time it was someone else besides the Sox that were getting squeezed. Some tough calls for the tribe in the 9th.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    Was at a BBQ yesterday listening to the game on the radio outside. Crazy! Most Everyone was going in to eat, 'cause it was cold... Me? : "yeah, i'll be w/ you in a minute. Go ahead & eat. I'll be right there". Ha! What a game! 

     

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to georom4's comment:

    same francona - watching the game slip away by doing nothing and reacting instead of being proactive....i dont care who your closer is, if they are in danger of losing the game, you remove him



    And again, this is no different from what other managers do.  Jim Johnson has blown 4 saves in the least week or two and Showalter hasn't done a thing about it.  Ditto with Rodney and Maddon.

    At least realize that Francona is far from alone in doing this... 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    same francona - watching the game slip away by doing nothing and reacting instead of being proactive....i dont care who your closer is, if they are in danger of losing the game, you remove him

     



    And again, this is no different from what other managers do.  Jim Johnson has blown 4 saves in the least week or two and Showalter hasn't done a thing about it.  Ditto with Rodney and Maddon.

     

    At least realize that Francona is far from alone in doing this... 



    Was Perez actually hurt or?

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    Perez was hurt, yes.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    same francona - watching the game slip away by doing nothing and reacting instead of being proactive....i dont care who your closer is, if they are in danger of losing the game, you remove him

     



    And again, this is no different from what other managers do.  Jim Johnson has blown 4 saves in the least week or two and Showalter hasn't done a thing about it.  Ditto with Rodney and Maddon.

     

    At least realize that Francona is far from alone in doing this... 



    I know it's frustrating as a fan, but there's probably a bunch of reasons to leave your crowned closer in. Especially this early in the season. 

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to emp9's comment:

    I know it's frustrating as a fan, but there's probably a bunch of reasons to leave your crowned closer in. Especially this early in the season. 



    That's right.  And it might also be pointed out that the guy who replaced Perez yesterday faced one batter and gave up a rope for the game-winning two-run double.  

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                         It's called"feel", good managers are good because among other things, they  have a "feel" for the game at hand. Each game presents differently. Managers that pay attention to the nuanced changes within each game as the game progresses are better than the those that don't. One of the criticisms I had when he was here was that he had no feel for the game. The last two games against the Indians when he had Lefty/Righty matchups, he neglected to matchup. These 2 games went critical mass late and he goes with RH Pestano against LH Carp on Saturday and RH Smith against LH Ellsbury yesterday. He lost both games. After 8 yrs.+ of watching things like this happen when he was here and listening to the  lame excuses about saving the BP, I found it refreshing watching these games unfold with our ex-manager now managing elsewhere. I'm glad we've got JF as our manager. He has a "feel" for the game. I'ts evident when you watch him work.           An example of what I'm talking about when I mention "feel" is not Carp pinch hitting for Gomes, that's Book,It's  letting Iggy hit instead of pinch hitting for him. That was big time "feel". That move sucked all the crowd energy and dugout energy and focused it on Iggy's at bat. When he walked it was just as good as a hit. It also sent another message to the team. JF is not afraid of being wrong ......and he will be sometimes, he's not afraid of losing a game ....and he will lose some sometimes. That move said, Follow me, I will lead you. ...and they will.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to eggplants' comment:

                                         It's called"feel", good managers are good because among other things, they  have a "feel" for the game at hand. Each game presents differently. Managers that pay attention to the nuanced changes within each game as the game progresses are better than the those that don't. One of the criticisms I had when he was here was that he had no feel for the game. The last two games against the Indians when he had Lefty/Righty matchups, he neglected to matchup. These 2 games went critical mass late and he goes with RH Pestano against LH Carp on Saturday and RH Smith against LH Ellsbury yesterday. He lost both games.



    As far as yesterday's game is concerned, though, Francona had already used Rich Hill, so the only lefty he had was Barnes who was recently called up.  And Barnes had pitched 3 innings of mopup on May 23.  The right-hander that Francona brought in yesterday, Joe Smith, has an ERA of 1.06.  Plus Ellsbury doesn't have big L-R splits.  So using Smith in that situation was not a big surprise.

     

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to eggplants' comment:

     

                                         It's called"feel", good managers are good because among other things, they  have a "feel" for the game at hand. Each game presents differently. Managers that pay attention to the nuanced changes within each game as the game progresses are better than the those that don't. One of the criticisms I had when he was here was that he had no feel for the game. The last two games against the Indians when he had Lefty/Righty matchups, he neglected to matchup. These 2 games went critical mass late and he goes with RH Pestano against LH Carp on Saturday and RH Smith against LH Ellsbury yesterday. He lost both games.

     



    As far as yesterday's game is concerned, though, Francona had already used Rich Hill, so the only lefty he had was Barnes who was recently called up.  And Barnes had pitched 3 innings of mopup on May 23.  The right-hander that Francona brought in yesterday, Joe Smith, has an ERA of 1.06.  Plus Ellsbury doesn't have big L-R splits.  So using Smith in that situation was not a big surprise.

     

     



    All the posters who criticized Tito didn't even bother to consider what his options were.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to eggplants' comment:

     

                                         It's called"feel", good managers are good because among other things, they  have a "feel" for the game at hand. Each game presents differently. Managers that pay attention to the nuanced changes within each game as the game progresses are better than the those that don't. One of the criticisms I had when he was here was that he had no feel for the game. The last two games against the Indians when he had Lefty/Righty matchups, he neglected to matchup. These 2 games went critical mass late and he goes with RH Pestano against LH Carp on Saturday and RH Smith against LH Ellsbury yesterday. He lost both games.

     



    As far as yesterday's game is concerned, though, Francona had already used Rich Hill, so the only lefty he had was Barnes who was recently called up.  And Barnes had pitched 3 innings of mopup on May 23.  The right-hander that Francona brought in yesterday, Joe Smith, has an ERA of 1.06.  Plus Ellsbury doesn't have big L-R splits.  So using Smith in that situation was not a big surprise.

     

     

     



    All the posters who criticized Tito didn't even bother to consider what his options were.

     

     




    I thought, considering what he had out there, he did what most managers would have done. Stick with your closer, then put in a guy who I believe did well against us in game 2 instead of the rookie who already thre 3+IP recently.

     

    With that said, I like Farrells approach tp the game and his pitchers much better.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    What's stupid about the criticism of Francona about yesterday's game is that he couldn't bring anyone in when things were going bad because there was no one warming up. And no manager -- NO MANAGER -- is going to warm up another pitcher when the closer comes in the game with a three-run lead.

    By the time it was apparent another pitcher might be needed, there were two outs. By the time a pitcher got warmed up, the game would be over one way or another. 

    And that walk to Iggy -- it every easily could have been a strikeout.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                  royf19, I'll get back to you on your above post later. I'm out the door to work. Hold those thoughts a little while longer.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    And no manager -- NO MANAGER -- is going to warm up another pitcher when the closer comes in the game with a three-run lead.

    The hateres know nothing about BB.  Like you said, that's just the way it goes.  You bring your closer in, and if he blows it, he blows it.  I don't remember Girardi having anyone warming up when Mo blew the game yesterday.  It's amazing that the haters don't understand even this simple point.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                           royf19, & Joebreidy............Let's have a three-way on this point. I'm still working so hold those good TF thoughts a little longer. I promise I'll get back to you.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    how many times are we going to have to hear that Francona had "no other choice or options?"  

    it never ends I guess...

    unless he was down to no pitchers, he had a choice...but the choice he made was to spit sunflower seeds and do nothing...which is his forte

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                       Geo., welcome aboard, Roy, Joe......thanks for hanging in there with me. First of all Geo and I don't hate TF, we're critical of the way he manages, thats all there is to it. Now getting back to Sundays game against the Indians, a 6-5 RS victory. Score at end of the top half of the 9th. was 5-2 Indians. Roy your comment about no manager is going to warm up another pitcher when his closer enters the game with a 3-run lead....I'll agree with that point. But when the tying run comes to the plate with no outs, it's  time to get someone up if you're still thinking about wining the game. When Napoli made an out, Coma breathed a sigh of relief, he thought it was over.  Without going over the entire scenario until Ells won it, he had ample opportunity to make a move. He had a rookie LH he could have chose instead of Smith the RH'er, or he could have used Kasmir for what 2-3 pitches. Because his pitcher got hurt, he had ample time to warm up either of those LH'ers. 8 guys came to the plate for the Sox. You point out that he had no one warming up, that's why he couldn't bring anyone in. Whose fault is that? He has no feel for the games. He never had. He is unable to sense dangerous situations arising and defend against them.  Hey Joe, you still with us ? You trying to compare Mariano Rivera  with Chris Perez? For Mariano he faced 3 hitters. They all reached. One with a little help from his defense. Joe the only thing they have in common is that they lost a game.

     
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