bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to eggplants's comment:

                                       Without going over the entire scenario until Ells won it, he had ample opportunity to make a move. He had a rookie LH he could have chose instead of Smith the RH'er, or he could have used Kasmir for what 2-3 pitches. Because his pitcher got hurt, he had ample time to warm up either of those LH'ers.



    You're making it sound like bringing in a lefty, any lefty, even a rookie, was the right move. 

    Ellsbury has a career BA of .295 against righties and .292 against lefties.

    Did you know that?

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    And the correct comparison for Chris Perez isn't Rivera, it's guys like Jim Johnson and Fernando Rodney.  Those two have each blown a pile of games this year while Showalter and Maddon watched from the dugout. 

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    Im of the opinion that when you bring in your closer it's do or die time. In fact that's part of the intrigue. I can remember a bunch of times Pap made things way too intetesting for my liking. Most of the time he got out of the jam he created and we won. Other times he failed. it is what it is. I don't think you approach the closer's role as you would any other relief role. 

    The only time I ever see a change (and it's a big maybe) is when a team has the next day off and has a couple lh/rh specialists available.

    Other than that rarity, they have to be challenged to see what they're made of. It's the only way to find out if they're able to be depended on. 

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                           Hfxsoxnut,  The game we're talking about happened Sunday.While Ellsbury's career stats might be what you claim them to be, this year he's about 50 percentage points weaker against LH'ers than RH'ers. For me, that's enough to ask Kazimer if he's up to throw 2-3 pitches to Ells and if not I come with the other lefty available. As far as Maddon and Showalter are concerned, same situation, I don't think either one ops for the RH'er. 8 hitters came to the plate for the Sox bottom of the ninth. The game was still winable for the Tribe. He comes with Smith, a RH'er, after  his closer throws 30+ pitches and blows his arm out and hits the DL the next day. I'm hoping he's still of the same mindset the next time the Sox/Indians get together. Is it true he's making 4MM a year? Go figure that one.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to eggplants's comment:

                                           Hfxsoxnut,  The game we're talking about happened Sunday.While Ellsbury's career stats might be what you claim them to be, this year he's about 50 percentage points weaker against LH'ers than RH'ers. For me, that's enough to ask Kazimer if he's up to throw 2-3 pitches to Ells and if not I come with the other lefty available. As far as Maddon and Showalter are concerned, same situation, I don't think either one ops for the RH'er. 8 hitters came to the plate for the Sox bottom of the ninth. The game was still winable for the Tribe. He comes with Smith, a RH'er, after  his closer throws 30+ pitches and blows his arm out and hits the DL the next day.



    So what if Smith is a right-hander?  He's got an ERA of 1.00!  Ellsbury got him this time and we won, but it doesn't mean Smith was a horrible choice.

    As for Kazmir, about the only time you would see a starter brought in is if it was a playoff game.

     

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                               If he gave it up, which he did, it was a bad choice. He must have been looking at those same career stats that you and Roy and maybe Joe were looking at.The nearest to the event stats are the more telling ones. The only stats that count are this years stats, what's he doing now. Now he's about 50 percentage points lower against LH'ers. That's the reference you go by, not career numbers. It was a unique situation where time was allowed for him,TF, to use anybody he wanted. He chose badly and cost his team a victory.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    Right, because if Tito had brought in a lefty, any lefty, even some kid with about 10 innings in the big leagues, Ellsbury was 100% guaranteed to make an out.  Too funny.

     
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    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to eggplants's comment:

     

                                           Hfxsoxnut,  The game we're talking about happened Sunday.While Ellsbury's career stats might be what you claim them to be, this year he's about 50 percentage points weaker against LH'ers than RH'ers. For me, that's enough to ask Kazimer if he's up to throw 2-3 pitches to Ells and if not I come with the other lefty available. As far as Maddon and Showalter are concerned, same situation, I don't think either one ops for the RH'er. 8 hitters came to the plate for the Sox bottom of the ninth. The game was still winable for the Tribe. He comes with Smith, a RH'er, after  his closer throws 30+ pitches and blows his arm out and hits the DL the next day.

     



    So what if Smith is a right-hander?  He's got an ERA of 1.00!  Ellsbury got him this time and we won, but it doesn't mean Smith was a horrible choice.

     

    As for Kazmir, about the only time you would see a starter brought in is if it was a playoff game.

     



    See right there is why the complaint has no credibility. No manager is going to warm up a starter, let alone bring him in, when the closer comes into a regular-season game in May with a three-run lead.

    And you're right in your other post when you say he assumes that his moves was guaranteed to be successful. That's the problem with this second-guessing. It's always coached in terms that the move that "should have been made" was guaranteed to work.

    The fact of the matter is that even if Tito started warming up a pitcher with no one on and the bases loaded, by the time the pitcher was ready, it would have been when there was two outs and the Indians still leading. In that case again -- in a regular-season game in May, no manager removes his closer like that.

    With a three-run lead, even if there are some baserunners, if he's still getting outs, the manager will let a run or two score. It came down to the two outs and the Indians still leading and managers are going to keep the closer in the game in that situation.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from eggplants. Show eggplants's posts

    Re: bet it was 2011 redux for TITO!

                                                Hfx, You're going for the oversimplification to exact some sort of credibility for your side of this arguement. I didn't say the move to a LH'er would ensure 100% victory. That's your claim. You say, "too funny", that's you laughing at your own joke, the oversimplification. You switch from one stat L/R splits for Ells to ERA for Smith to still try to justify the move. The move was a dumb move made by a dumb manager. A similar situation presented itself the day before. Bottom 8th.,2-outs , tying run on second base, Farrell pinch hits Carp for Gomes. Now Carp's splits are a lot more dramatic than Ells, something like .300/RH'ers vs .100/LH'ers. Here's what happened. Gomes' position was 4 that inning meaning that if Pistano had a clean 8th they wouldn't have to worry about Carp until the 9th. When Ciriaco doubled with 1 out that brought Carp into play in the 8th. The move, get a LH up after Ciriaco doubles because he knows Farrell is going to pinch hit Carp for Gomes. Ells K's for the second out, more than enough time to get the LH'er to face Carp. What happened? No move. He leaves Pestano in to face Carp. 1 pitch tie game. His pitcher just took a two out jolt and is working in a tie game next guy up is Pedroia another double,5-4 sox.Now TF goes to the Dugout  phone to look for some help. "T", it's over. hang up the phone. You blew another one. But hey, call Hfx,Roy and Joe they'll give you the old win some lose some routine,that'll make you feel better, right? But deep down inside, where the sun don't shine, you know you're just a babysitter, a far cry from being a manager.

     
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