Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    Looking at our big contracts, many here feel we are in a bind until 2015 when we lose most of them. I, myself, said we would be "crippled" financially for 7 years once we signed CC. While I have not been proven wrong, we can still compete for a ring between now and 2017 (CC's last year) or 2018 (AGon's last year). I figure we will have about $28M to spend this winter (not counting Papi). That may be enough to fill enough holes for us to compete in 2013, but having more would increase our odds. Dumping salary is generally not the way to do it, as with the Youk trade, but let's look at each big contract and see what can/should/might be done (contract cost listed is avg salary or luxury tax number):

    AGon: $22M to 2018- Along with most posters on this site, I was all for this trade and extension, but I did mention the fact that paying a top 6 1Bman$22M to be just marginally better than the #14-16 1Bman is not financially defendable, and that moving Youk to 3B at his age and increased fragility was a gamble. (I advocated trading Youk coming off his best OPS year of his career- while his stock was high.) That being said, I seriously doubt AGon is traded soon. We do have Mauro Gomez, Travis Shaw and numerous 3B & SSprospects that could be converted to 1Bmen, but none of these guys, except for maybe Gomez,  will be ML ready for 2013. AGon stays for the time being.

    Crawford: $20.3M to 2017- "Glorified platoon player", over-rated fielder and base-runner, overpaid by $8-12M a year depending on how you see his future? Many here say CC is "untradable".  "Nobody wants him." This is not true. Nobody wants him at $20M/yr, but many teams would like CC on their team, especially NL teams or teams with OF needs, both immediate and/or long term. The 3 questions are:
    1) How much of his contract do we have to pay another team to take him?
    2) Is CC worth the differential of the above question? 
    3) Do we have a replacement LF'er in house, or can we find one on the market for less cost, and be a plus over keeping Crawford. 
    I think CC's need for surgery makes any trade unlikely. He probably should just get the surgery now, so he can recover earlier. I have mentioned trading CC to other teams in exchange for their shorter term salary dump player(s) like Barry Zito and pay part of CC's deal up to the end. Personally, I think we're better off paying someone $10-11M a year to take CC. We save $9-10M a year, and can easily find an inhouse solution that is not a drop off from what CC has given us thus far, but if CC rebounds might be worse. I say, try hard to move this guy, but don't pay over $13-14M a year. His future potential is worth more than $6-7M a year.

    Beckett: $17M to 2014- Everyone seems to be jumping on the trade Josh bandwagon, but as with the CC situation, we need to weigh how much we will have to pay towards his deal with how much his future potential is (the 17 Million dollar question), and how can we replace him. With Lackey? With another high-priced FA that could be our next longterm bust? I think not.
    Josh's attitude, conditioning, injury issues, and up and down seasons have been discussed enough already, but the fact is, Josh has has very decent to great seasons every other year coming into MLB in 2001. Is the odd-even year thing going to continue? If so, we should keep him for 2013 and trade him before 2014. He may still not earn $17M with a good season in 2013, but paying someone $7-10M/yr to take him off our hands, means we have to find someone at $7-10M who can match Beckett's odd year numbers, which to me, is highly unlikely. We don't really have any MLB ready prospects for 2013, and if anyone thinks this is a World Series rotation, think again:
    1) Lester
    2) Buchholtz
    3) Lackey
    4) Morales
    5) Doubront
    6) Mortensen
    I'd look to get good return in trade for Josh. I wouldn't give him away. I mentioned something like a Beckett, Ellsbury, Melancon, and Ranaudo (plus some cash to offset Beckett's deal) for Cuerto & Marshall deal, but who knows who wants Josh. I think management will look hard to dump Beckett, and he will rebound next year. Josh's replacement will not do better. Just my opinion.
     
    Lackey: $13.8M to 2015 (counting $500K for 2015's injury option)  With the injury option kicked in, Lackey is an interesting player going forward. He has a lot to prove, but I said the same about Beckett after last September and looking to 2012. I even wonder if he might retire rather than play for the minimum wage in 2015. Maybe a re-structuring of his deal this winter might help both parties. Lackey is not going to be traded this winter. Long shot for next ST, if he looks good, but if he looks good, we'll probably keep him. I'd certainly keep any trade door open, but it is highly unlikely he is dealt before 2013.

    Ortiz: ($15.575M in 2012) Arb? Extension? Walk? This is at the top of the Sox off-season flowchart of moves along with possibly the keep or trade Ellsburydecision. With only about $28M to spend and so many holes to fill, an argument has been made by several posters that spending over half of our 2013 acquisition budget on a DH is foolhardy, especially when we have guys like Lavarnway, Gomez, Nava, and maybe a returning Ross who fit the DH profile wonderfully. The lack of clutch hitting by Papi over the last 3-4 years is also an issue, although many blame the lack of proper line-up protection as the main reason. Clutch or not, Papi is a big driving force of our offense, and replacing his numbers is near impossible. The question is, is a step down from Papi to Lava worth a $15M savings that can be applied to other positional upgrades? If we were able to get a Braun or Upton (via trade) or FA Josh Hamilton instead, would that make it worthwhile to let Papi walk or offer arb and hope he declines (getting draft picks)? I can see both sides to this argument, and it may end up being Ben's first big defining choice.

    Dice-K: Free Agent. Nothing more to be said.

    Pedey: $6.75M to 2014 w/ $11M option for '15 ($0.5M buyout)- His cost is minimal, even if he never regains his MVP form. Pedey's not going anywhere before 2013 and probably ever. Moving a 3B or SS prospect to 2B could be a future option, but I think Pedey is a 2B fixture in Boston.

    Ellsbury: ($8.05M in 2012): Last arb this winter. The big decision. I happen to think there is close to a zero chance Ellsbury plays for Boston in 2014. If my psoition is valid, it comes down to this: how much is 1 year of Ellsbury and likely 2 comp picks after he walks worth? How much will he get in his last arb year? Not having a big 2012 will help keep that cost down, but I think the Sox have to look at total value:
    Ellsbury + his 2013 contract cost+ 2 draft picks in 2014
    or
    Whatever we can get in trade, possibly in a bigger package deal.
    I'm thinking the latter might make more sense, but it would probably mean lessening our chances for 2013, but improving our chances beyond 2013, unless we involve a 3rd team in the trade and bring back a MLB ready player who helps us at another position, such as starting pitcher (#1-2 slot type) or a RH'd clean-up hitter type. Hard to guess what Ben will do, but I think Ellsbury will be traded before next season begins (when the comp pick value would be lost).

    Lester: $6M to 2013 w/ $13M option for '14 ($0.25M buyout)- Before this season, I seriously doubt anyone thought Lester's $13M option for 2014 was going to be too high. Now, it's a real possibility we decline the option after we see what Lester gives us in 2013. Trading Lester could happen, but I think moving Josh is a higher liklihood. Lester has more trade value, especially because of the 2014 option and not Josh's guaranteed money. I think Jon stays in Boston next year, but chances are good either him or Josh is gone.

    Buchholtz: $7.5M to 2015 2/$13M option for '16 ($0.25M buyout)- Buch is not going anywhere, unless in a package deal that nets us a bonafide ace. His cost is low, His upside is big. He needs to stay healthy. Not going anywhere soon.

    Others who may get big arb raises in the near future:
    Salty: ($2.5M in 2012) Last arb this winter. Could see Salty traded, especially if Papi returns. If Papi walks, we could see a Lava (DH/C), Salty (C), and Shoppach (C) roster.
    Bailey: ($3.9M in 2012) 2 arb year left. Bailey should be our closer next year, which will improve our pen by returning Aceves to his rightful role: short-mid set-up man.

    Overall: say we save 
    $10M/yr x 2 by dumping Beckett
    $10M/yr x 5 by dumping CC
    and not bring Papi back, we'd have about $50M to spend and this for a beginning roster:

    C: Salty
    DH/C: Lava (Gomez/Nava)
    1B: AGon
    2B: Pedey
    3B: Middlebrooks
    SS: Iggy/Ciriaco
    IF: Aviles
    IF: Punto (Ciriaco if not the FT SS)
    LF: _____ (Nava)
    CF: Ellsbury
    RF: ______
    OF: Sweeney
    OF: Kalish (Bradley/Brentz?)

    SP: _______
    SP: Lester
    SP: Buchholtz
    SP: Lackey
    SP: Doubront
    SP: Morales/Mortensen (Stewart)

    Cl: Bailey
    RP: Aceves
    RP: Breslow
    RP: Bard
    RP: Melancon
    RP: Hill
    RP: Atchison
    RP: Miller (Mortensen if not SP) (Carpenter)

    If we trade Ellsbury and fill in one of these gaps, we'd have about $60M (depending on how much the player we get for Jacoby costs) to fill these holes plus the new CF hole caused by Jacoby's departure. Maybe we could take a chance and try Bradley in CF to open the 2013 season. That would allow us much more money to spend on filling the other open slots.

    All is not lost for 2013 and beyond, but with these big contracts and the new CBA rules, we will have to get more creative, be more pro-active, and take some chances on fast-tracking prospects.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]Looking at our big contracts, many here feel we are in a bind until 2015 when we lose most of them. I, myself, said we would be "crippled" financially for 7 years once we signed CC. While I have not been proven wrong, we can still compete for a ring between now and 2017 (CC's last year) or 2018 (AGon's last year). I figure we will have about $28M to spend this winter (not counting Papi). That may be enough to fill enough holes for us to compete in 2013, but having more would increase our odds. Dumping salary is generally not the way to do it, as with the Youk trade, but let's look at each big contract and see what can/should/might be done (contract cost listed is avg salary or luxury tax number): AGon: $22M to 2018- Along with most posters on this site, I was all for this trade and extension, but I did mention the fact that paying a top 6 1Bman$22M to be just marginally better than the #14-16 1Bman is not financially defendable, and that moving Youk to 3B at his age and increased fragility was a gamble. (I advocated trading Youk coming off his best OPS year of his career- while his stock was high.) That being said, I seriously doubt AGon is traded soon. We do have Mauro Gomez, Travis Shaw and numerous 3B & SSprospects that could be converted to 1Bmen, but none of these guys, except for maybe Gomez,  will be ML ready for 2013. AGon stays for the time being. Crawford: $20.3M to 2017- "Glorified platoon player", over-rated fielder and base-runner, overpaid by $8-12M a year depending on how you see his future? Many here say CC is "untradable".  "Nobody wants him." This is not true. Nobody wants him at $20M/yr, but many teams would like CC on their team, especially NL teams or teams with OF needs , both immediate and/or long term. The 3 questions are: 1) How much of his contract do we have to pay another team to take him? 2) Is CC worth the differential of the above question?  3) Do we have a replacement LF'er in house, or can we find one on the market for less cost, and be a plus over keeping Crawford.  I think CC's need for surgery makes any trade unlikely. He probably should just get the surgery now, so he can recover earlier. I have mentioned trading CC to other teams in exchange for their shorter term salary dump player(s) like Barry Zito and pay part of CC's deal up to the end. Personally, I think we're better off paying someone $10-11M a year to take CC. We save $9-10M a year, and can easily find an inhouse solution that is not a drop off from what CC has given us thus far, but if CC rebounds might be worse. I say, try hard to move this guy, but don't pay over $13-14M a year. His future potential is worth more than $6-7M a year. Beckett: $17M to 2014- Everyone seems to be jumping on the trade Josh bandwagon, but as with the CC situation, we need to weigh how much we will have to pay towards his deal with how much his future potential is (the 17 Million dollar question), and how can we replace him. With Lackey? With another high-priced FA that could be our next longterm bust? I think not. Josh's attitude, conditioning, injury issues, and up and down seasons have been discussed enough already, but the fact is, Josh has has very decent to great seasons every other year coming into MLB in 2001. Is the odd-even year thing going to continue? If so, we should keep him for 2013 and trade him before 2014. He may still not earn $17M with a good season in 2013, but paying someone $7-10M/yr to take him off our hands, means we have to find someone at $7-10M who can match Beckett's odd year numbers, which to me, is highly unlikely. We don't really have any MLB ready prospects for 2013, and if anyone thinks this is a World Series rotation, think again: 1) Lester 2) Buchholtz 3) Lackey 4) Morales 5) Doubront 6) Mortensen I'd look to get good return in trade for Josh. I wouldn't give him away. I mentioned something like a Beckett, Ellsbury, Melancon, and Ranaudo (plus some cash to offset Beckett's deal) for Cuerto & Marshall deal, but who knows who wants Josh. I think management will look hard to dump Beckett, and he will rebound next year. Josh's replacement will not do better. Just my opinion.   Lackey: $13.8M to 2015 (counting $500K for 2015's injury option)  With the injury option kicked in, Lackey is an interesting player going forward. He has a lot to prove, but I said the same about Beckett after last September and looking to 2012. I even wonder if he might retire rather than play for the minimum wage in 2015. Maybe a re-structuring of his deal this winter might help both parties. Lackey is not going to be traded this winter. Long shot for next ST, if he looks good, but if he looks good, we'll probably keep him. I'd certainly keep any trade door open, but it is highly unlikely he is dealt before 2013. Ortiz: ($15.575M in 2012) Arb? Extension? Walk? This is at the top of the Sox off-season flowchart of moves along with possibly the keep or trade Ellsburydecision. With only about $28M to spend and so many holes to fill, an argument has been made by several posters that spending over half of our 2013 acquisition budget on a DH is foolhardy, especially when we have guys like Lavarnway, Gomez, Nava, and maybe a returning Ross who fit the DH profile wonderfully. The lack of clutch hitting by Papi over the last 3-4 years is also an issue, although many blame the lack of proper line-up protection as the main reason. Clutch or not, Papi is a big driving force of our offense, and replacing his numbers is near impossible. The question is, is a step down from Papi to Lava worth a $15M savings that can be applied to other positional upgrades? If we were able to get a Braun or Upton (via trade) or FA Josh Hamilton instead, would that make it worthwhile to let Papi walk or offer arb and hope he declines (getting draft picks)? I can see both sides to this argument, and it may end up being Ben's first big defining choice. Dice-K: Free Agent. Nothing more to be said. Pedey: $6.75M to 2014 w/ $11M option for '15 ($0.5M buyout)- His cost is minimal, even if he never regains his MVP form. Pedey's not going anywhere before 2013 and probably ever. Moving a 3B or SS prospect to 2B could be a future option, but I think Pedey is a 2B fixture in Boston. Ellsbury: ($8.05M in 2012): Last arb this winter. The big decision. I happen to think there is close to a zero chance Ellsbury plays for Boston in 2014. If my psoition is valid, it comes down to this: how much is 1 year of Ellsbury and likely 2 comp picks after he walks worth? How much will he get in his last arb year? Not having a big 2012 will help keep that cost down, but I think the Sox have to look at total value: Ellsbury + his 2013 contract cost+ 2 draft picks in 2014 or Whatever we can get in trade, possibly in a bigger package deal. I'm thinking the latter might make more sense, but it would probably mean lessening our chances for 2013, but improving our chances beyond 2013, unless we involve a 3rd team in the trade and bring back a MLB ready player who helps us at another position, such as starting pitcher (#1-2 slot type) or a RH'd clean-up hitter type. Hard to guess what Ben will do, but I think Ellsbury will be traded before next season begins (when the comp pick value would be lost). Lester: $6M to 2013 w/ $13M option for '14 ($0.25M buyout)- Before this season, I seriously doubt anyone thought Lester's $13M option for 2014 was going to be too high. Now, it's a real possibility we decline the option after we see what Lester gives us in 2013. Trading Lester could happen, but I think moving Josh is a higher liklihood. Lester has more trade value, especially because of the 2014 option and not Josh's guaranteed money. I think Jon stays in Boston next year, but chances are good either him or Josh is gone. Buchholtz: $7.5M to 2015 2/$13M option for '16 ($0.25M buyout)- Buch is not going anywhere, unless in a package deal that nets us a bonafide ace. His cost is low, His upside is big. He needs to stay healthy. Not going anywhere soon. Others who may get big arb raises in the near future: Salty: ($2.5M in 2012) Last arb this winter. Could see Salty traded, especially if Papi returns. If Papi walks, we could see a Lava (DH/C), Salty (C), and Shoppach (C) roster. Bailey: ($3.9M in 2012) 2 arb year left. Bailey should be our closer next year, which will improve our pen by returning Aceves to his rightful role: short-mid set-up man. Overall: say we save  $10M/yr x 2 by dumping Beckett $10M/yr x 5 by dumping CC and not bring Papi back, we'd have about $50M to spend and this for a beginning roster: C: Salty DH/C: Lava (Gomez/Nava) 1B: AGon 2B: Pedey 3B: Middlebrooks SS: Iggy/Ciriaco IF: Aviles IF: Punto (Ciriaco if not the FT SS) LF: _____ (Nava) CF: Ellsbury RF: ______ OF: Sweeney OF: Kalish (Bradley/Brentz?) SP: _______ SP: Lester SP: Buchholtz SP: Lackey SP: Doubront SP: Morales/Mortensen (Stewart) Cl: Bailey RP: Aceves RP: Breslow RP: Bard RP: Melancon RP: Hill RP: Atchison RP: Miller (Mortensen if not SP) (Carpenter) If we trade Ellsbury and fill in one of these gaps, we'd have about $60M (depending on how much the player we get for Jacoby costs) to fill these holes plus the new CF hole caused by Jacoby's departure. Maybe we could take a chance and try Bradley in CF to open the 2013 season. That would allow us much more money to spend on filling the other open slots. All is not lost for 2013 and beyond, but with these big contracts and the new CBA rules, we will have to get more creative, be more pro-active, and take some chances on fast-tracking prospects.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon - If the latest rumors on Lackey are true, then they should just eat his contract. He's a clubhouse cancer if he was double holding beer after last night's loss.

    Secondly, they should try and ship Beckett out, even if they have to eat 50% or more. Again, if rumors of him being at a bar until 2AM on Monday night are true, then he really doesn't care.

    There is such a thing as addition by subtraction and getting rid of these guys may help.

    I would advocate the following:
    - Trade Josh Beckett. Assuming you have eat 50% of the contact so be it. It would save $8M per year.
    - Do not resign David Ortiz. As much as he helps the lineup, he can be replaced by players already on the roster by giving them a day off.
    - Try and resign Ross. Not sure what he will demand, but why not give him $20M/3. He can always serve as DH if the time comes.
    - Look for a $10M starter.

    Your rotation would be:
    Buchholz
    Lester
    Morales
    TBD 4th Starter
    Aceves/Doubront
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    Are you posting a resume'?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

      Moonman......  Son, you are a hard worker.....  I get tired just reading your threads !!!!   All goooood !!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond... : Moon - If the latest rumors on Lackey are true, then they should just eat his contract. He's a clubhouse cancer if he was double holding beer after last night's loss. Secondly, they should try and ship Beckett out, even if they have to eat 50% or more. Again, if rumors of him being at a bar until 2AM on Monday night are true, then he really doesn't care. There is such a thing as addition by subtraction and getting rid of these guys may help. I would advocate the following: - Trade Josh Beckett. Assuming you have eat 50% of the contact so be it. It would save $8M per year. - Do not resign David Ortiz. As much as he helps the lineup, he can be replaced by players already on the roster by giving them a day off. - Try and resign Ross. Not sure what he will demand, but why not give him $20M/3. He can always serve as DH if the time comes. - Look for a $10M starter. Your rotation would be: Buchholz Lester Morales TBD 4th Starter Aceves/Doubront
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]

    Lackey would be your TBD 4th starter...hes not getting traded this offseason...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond... : Lackey would be your TBD 4th starter...hes not getting traded this offseason...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    ..Or released.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    A $10M FA starter is not going to lead us to a ring.

    We need to trade for a young stud or get lucky somehow.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]  Moonman......  Son, you are a hard worker.....  I get tired just reading your threads !!!!   All goooood !!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    Thanks BILL.  We have to address these big contract issues, or at least some of them.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In response to "Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...": [QUOTE]A $10M FA starter is not going to lead us to a ring. We need to trade for a young stud or get lucky somehow. Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]yanks signed Kuroda for 10m, a rotation of bucholz, lester, and Kuroda would be a very good foundation. Guys who know how to pitch, really know how to pitch ... Like a colon for example could also be back of the rotation help.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...": yanks signed Kuroda for 10m, a rotation of bucholz, lester, and Kuroda would be a very good foundation. Guys who know how to pitch, really know how to pitch ... Like a colon for example could also be back of the rotation help.
    Posted by pri360[/QUOTE]

    ...and no longterm risk either.

    I bet they wish they kept Burnett had he pitched this well for them this year.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    On waiver deals, what could we get for Ross, Shoopach and Cook?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    Shead the dead (wood).
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...


    I sometimes believe that Lackey is a spy sent by the Angels to haunt us. 
    Perhaps the playoff loses to us in 1986, 2004, 2007 and 2008 has led to the Angels to seek payback (although they finally got it in the 2009 ALDS). 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattb5fon. Show mattb5fon's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    moon how would you feel about sheets on a low guarenteed $ deal with incentives? i think it would be worth a shot
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]I sometimes believe that Lackey is a spy sent by the Angels to haunt us.  Perhaps the playoff loses to us in 1986, 2004, 2007 and 2008 has led to the Angels to seek payback (although they finally got it in the 2009 ALDS). 
    Posted by Ice-Cream[/QUOTE]


    I called him a "trojan horse" the other day based more or less off that line of thinking.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond... : I called him a "trojan horse" the other day based more or less off that line of thinking.
    Posted by EnchiladaT[/QUOTE]

    To make matters worse, the Red Sox outbid the Angels for Carl Crawford. 

    I am starting to hate the Angels as much as the Yankees.  lol
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    DID YOU EVER WONDER HOW THE YANKEE FRONT OFFICE COMES
    UP BETTER THAN BOSTON WHEN IT COMES TO THE LATEST TRADES.
    THEY GOT SWISHER, NIX, CHAVEZ, JONES, AND ICHIRO TO FILL
    IN THE GAPS AT MINIMAL COST.  CHAVEZ, I KNOW, HAS A HISTORY
    OF GETTING DINGED UP, BUT BOSTON SURE COULD HAVE USED
    A FULL SEASON OF HIM AS COMPARED TO YOUKILIS. THE SWISHER
    DEAL WAS A REAL COUP....AND WE MIGHT STILL LOOK AT HIM IF
    THE YANKEES DON'T RE-SIGN HIM IN 2013.. ALTHOUGH WE HAVE
    ROSS.  GUYS LIKE SWEENEY, PUNTO, AND SHOPPACH WERE
    AWFUL SIGNS. HOW COME WE COULDN'T GET CHRIS STEWART OR
    JAYSON NIX WHO SEEM TO BE REAL PLAYERS ?  THE YANKEE
    SCOUTING AND FO SEEM TO BE MUCH MORE SAVVY THAN BOSTON'S.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]moon how would you feel about sheets on a low guarenteed $ deal with incentives? i think it would be worth a shot
    Posted by mattb5fon[/QUOTE]

    I don't mind taking long shots on a guy like Sheets, but I'd still want us to get an ace or potential ace/top 2 slot type as well. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    Then, they went out and got Wells.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    Speaking of big contracts, I think it would help the Red Sox to adopt a new FA policy. No deals longer than 3 years. Of course you could make exceptions for an Adrian Gonzalez, an in his prime Papi, or a similar type player, but if you think about it why is the team in the trouble it is now? To me the number one factor is long term contracts for players who have questionable value or fit to the Red Sox. It would have the added benefit of keeping us out of things like the Carl Crawford and John Lackey sweepstakes. And as much as I like Crawford, he was always a questionable fit at Fenway. The press would, of course, hate it. Or maybe they wouldn't, they'd still have something to rail on the team about. They'd have plenty of "Why Can't we Get Top Free Agents?" type headlines.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]Speaking of big contracts, I think it would help the Red Sox to adopt a new FA policy. No deals longer than 3 years. Of course you could make exceptions for an Adrian Gonzalez, an in his prime Papi, or a similar type player, but if you think about it why is the team in the trouble it is now? To me the number one factor is long term contracts for players who have questionable value or fit to the Red Sox. It would have the added benefit of keeping us out of things like the Carl Crawford and John Lackey sweepstakes. And as much as I like Crawford, he was always a questionable fit at Fenway. The press would, of course, hate it. Or maybe they wouldn't, they'd still have something to rail on the team about. They'd have plenty of "Why Can't we Get Top Free Agents?" type headlines.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    FAs yes, but deals like Buch, Pedey, and other players before they reach free agency- yes.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond... : FAs yes, but deals like Buch, Pedey, and other players before they reach free agency- yes.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]Even then, I'd like to see anything beyond 3 years as club or mutual options. Possibly vesting if certain incentives are reached.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond... : Even then, I'd like to see anything beyond 3 years as club or mutual options. Possibly vesting if certain incentives are reached.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    We've had pretty good luck with these types of 4+ year deals:

    Pedey  $40.5M / 6 yrs to 2014 plus 2015 option.
    Lester  $30M / 5 yrs to 2013 plus 2014 option.
    Buch    $29.95M / 4 yrs to 2015 plus options for 2016 & 2017.

    Even with Lester's struggles, he was worth $30M from 2009-2011 alone.
    Pedey was certainly worth $6.7M a year, and still is worth way more on the open market.
    Buch is still a question mark, but at less than $8M a year, I'll take it.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond... : We've had pretty good luck with these types of 4+ year deals: Pedey  $40.5M / 6 yrs to 2014 plus 2015 option. Lester  $30M / 5 yrs to 2013 plus 2014 option. Buch    $29.95M / 4 yrs to 2015 plus options for 2016 & 2017. Even with Lester's struggles, he was worth $30M from 2009-2011 alone. Pedey was certainly worth $6.7M a year, and still is worth way more on the open market. Buch is still a question mark, but at less than $8M a year, I'll take it.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]You do have a point there. I'd certainly like to see no more 4+ year contracts for free agents, except in the truly exceptional cases like Manny and AG.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Contracts, 2013, and Beyond...

    Never say never, but in theory, I agree with a 3 year limit. It might mean we never sign another big name FA again.

    Do you consider Hamilton(31 years old) "a Manny or AG"?
      He's got 31 jacks in just 450 PAs so far this year!

    How about Greinke (age 28)?
    25-10 from 2011 to today.

    Melky Cabrera (age 28)?
      Batting .348 this year with a .392 OBP.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share