Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration : ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]
    UC is just trolling right now.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    What is dumber than the abritration whas only offering him 12.75 of course what ever he submits is going to win.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    Where is the Yankee forum guy from RiveraveBlues that claims the the EE is "lowballing" Gardner in arbitration? Why not input on this from our resident Yankee fans / trolls.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration : The list shows the % diff. between teams and players--Ortiz's was a 23 % raise. AGon was a great pickup for PROSPECTS. If the Sox were willing to part with Ells we would have Pineda. If the Sox were willing to part with Ells, Lav, Middlebrooks and Ranaudo we could probably have brought home Pineda and Ichiro. Obviously we are mostly all Sox fans with the same passion for our team to do well.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]
    I highly doubt the Mariners would have traded five years of 22-year-old Michael Pineda (two years at the league minimum salary) for two increasinigly expensive years of 27-year-old Jacoby Ellsbury.

    Seattle might not be a contender before Ellsbury reaches free agency following the 2013 season. The Red Sox could not match the Yankee offer of Jesus Montero, who remains under his team's control at least through the 2017 season (the 2018 season if the Mariners in April send Montero down to Triple A for six weeks to work on his catching skills).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In response to "Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration : I highly doubt the Mariners would have traded five years of 22-year-old Michael Pineda (two years at the league minimum salary) for two increasinigly expensive years of 27-year-old Jacoby Ellsbury. Seattle might not be a contender before Ellsbury reaches free agency following the 2013 season. The Red Sox could not match the Yankee offer of Jesus Montero, who remains under his team's control at least through the 2017 season (the 2018 season if the Mariners in April send Montero down to Triple A for six weeks to work on his catching skills). Posted by hill55[/QUOTE] I agree, Hill...Peter Gammons mentioned it today, but who knows how that conversation went. You know a heck of a lot more about the Mariners than I do, but I think it was good trade for both teams. The Mariners have some young pitching depth and I know if I was a free agent hitter, that would be one of the last parks I'd choose to play in. This is one of the few ways they can get some solid bats. If Smoak develops along with Ackley, Montero and some other kids, they may be good sooner rather than later...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    The renowned Ortiz basher that I am, I warned against bringing him back. Right now we could have been either inking him to an $8-9 million one year deal or letting him go. Instead he might get what should be the value of a two year deal - one year at $16 million.

    Sad reward for keeping him around for 28 homers and 85 ribbies.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    You are correct sir, and this is something I've harped upon for months now. The Red Sox were (are?) a team in disarray after the September collapse. Henry staggering around his yacht weeping over the loss of his ungrateful "son" , and hurling unjustified invectives against Luchino whom he blamed for his departure. Talk about shooting the messenger! My understanding is Papi's agent, Fernando Cuza, came early and offered the Sox a 2 yr deal at $22ish million (12/10) plus incentives, but wanted the deal done BEFORE Thanksgiving. The Sox offered the insulting publicly reported amount of $18 million, and then apparently shut off the cell phones. The man hit .309 with a .953 OPS, 40 doubles, 29 dingers, and 96 RBI, AND he's a venerated and beloved Red Sox fan favorite!! This should have been a deal a child could have gotten done but, alas, they blew it and will suffer the consequences. Ortiz will clearly win in arbitration so effectively has $16.5 million in hand for 1 yr. My advice at this point would be to offer a 3yr deal at $35 million and beg forgiveness. I'd make him a captain and publicly kiss his rump for the next 2 months to assuage his ruffled feathers. But it's going to be almost impossible to get him to agree...why should he? He's got almost half that amount coming to him already for 1 yr, and if he does what I think he's capable of next season, he will easily find a taker for a 2yr $25ish deal making the 3 yrs at $41. Would you give up $6 million for an organization that publicly dissed you? The saddest part of all this is that it was all unecessary, they came to us with a deal on a platter! Now we'll have $16.5 million towards the luxury tax cap this season, instead of the $11-12 we could have had based on an average salary of $11 (plus incentives). Arrogance and stupidity have their consequence, and this one will especially hurt because I think David has a few good yrs left. Would have been good to see him retire a Red Sox. 





    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]The renowned Ortiz basher that I am, I warned against bringing him back. Right now we could have been either inking him to an $8-9 million one year deal or letting him go. Instead he might get what shoudl be the value of a two year deal - one year at $16 million. Sad reward for keeping him around for 28 homers and 85 ribbies.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    The Sox were greedy they thought someone else would sign him and they would get the almighty "picks." The Sox misjudged the market--the DH role is changing--I think arbitrators will look at the role of the DH and award him $14.5. The Sox and Ortiz should be grateful they have each other and move on. Don't give him a multi year deal unless it's 4 years at $6---use the savings to sign better pitching.

    The Sox have more important issues like figuring out if the WC is within reach.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    He probably will get 14m.....but Boston is more likely going to let him walk after this season.  IF that the case at the same time if he have a bad year.  He will not find more than 6m a year contract for the 2013 season. 

    IF Papi is smart, try to ask Boston to give him a 2 years deal for 22m.  He ll make more money doing that way instead taking an one year deal.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]You are correct sir, and this is something I've harped upon for months now. The Red Sox were (are?) a team in disarray after the September collapse. Henry staggering around his yacht weeping over the loss of his ungrateful "son" , and hurling unjustified invectives against Luchino whom he blamed for his departure. Talk about shooting the messenger! My understanding is Papi's agent, Fernando Cuza, came early and offered the Sox a 2 yr deal at $22ish million (12/10) plus incentives, but wanted the deal done BEFORE Thanksgiving. The Sox offered the insulting publicly reported amount of $18 million, and then apparently shut off the cell phones. The man hit .309 with a .953 OPS, 40 doubles, 29 dingers, and 96 RBI, AND he's a venerated and beloved Red Sox fan favorite!! This should have been a deal a child could have gotten done but, alas, they blew it and will suffer the consequences. Ortiz will clearly win in arbitration so effectively has $16.5 million in hand for 1 yr. My advice at this point would be to offer a 3yr  deal at $35 million and beg forgiveness. I'd make him a captain and publicly kiss his rump for the next 2 months to assuage his ruffled feathers. But it's going to be almost impossible to get him to agree...why should he? He's got almost half that amount coming to him already for 1 yr, and if he does what I think he's capable of next season, he will easily find a taker for a 2yr $25ish deal making the 3 yrs at $41. Would you give up $6 million for an organization that publicly dissed you? The saddest part of all this is that it was all unecessary, they came to us with a deal on a platter! Now we'll have $16.5 million towards the luxury tax cap this season, instead of the $11-12 we could have had based on an average salary of $11 (plus incentives). Arrogance and stupidity have their consequence, and this one will especially hurt because I think David has a few good yrs left. Would have been good to see him retire a Red Sox.  In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration :
    Posted by Teakus[/QUOTE] Intersting post with some detail I hadn't heard before; but I suspect Papi is to the Sox whar Jeter was to the Yankees; in that he would only command that kind of salary from his home team. While Papi may be the best DH in baseball - no one else gets paid anywhere near $12M as a full time DH.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]The renowned Ortiz basher that I am, I warned against bringing him back. Right now we could have been either inking him to an $8-9 million one year deal or letting him go. Instead he might get what should be the value of a two year deal - one year at $16 million. Sad reward for keeping him around for 28 homers and 85 ribbies.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I have Mr. Hanky on ignore, but I bet he flips his position again and now will agree with you. If papi wins the $16M, this team will have no options to improve from where it is now without going over the tax limit.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    Exactly. I stated this exact point at the end of the season, but the Red Sox got greedy and wanted the opportunity for a first round draft pick.

    Now they are either screwed in giving him something north of $14M or a two year deal in the $20M per year range.

    Dumb, dumb, dumb.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration : I have Mr. Hanky on ignore, but I bet he flips his position again and now will agree with you. If papi wins the $16M, this team will have no options to improve from where it is now without going over the tax limit.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]


    Hi moon. I don't want to go back and look up posts but I believe his stance on Ortiz was how important it was to bring David back, and at a high rate ($12 million I think) .... of course there were race allegations against posters, fans who wanted Ortiz gone... I kept quiet but obviously 99.9% of the posters who wanted to let DO walk were basing it on baseball reasons.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    He probably will get 14m.....but Boston is more likely going to let him walk after this season.  IF that the case at the same time if he have a bad year.  He will not find more than 6m a year contract for the 2013 season.  

    Arbitrators don't split the difference: they give either/or.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]He probably will get 14m.....but Boston is more likely going to let him walk after this season.  IF that the case at the same time if he have a bad year.  He will not find more than 6m a year contract for the 2013 season.   Arbitrators don't split the difference: they give either/or.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Don't be shocked if he gets the whole thing. His numbers are going to be the only thing they will look at, nothing else. I think 15 - 16 million for Big Papi. And watch out if he matches last years numbers in 2012. Then what do the Sox do?

    What the Sox should hae done is give him a Thank You contract a couple of years ago via an extension. In the end, it would probably have cost them less.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

      ANOTHER BINGO !!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    DH market deflated over time. That is natural and normal in all markets. Every DH in the game understands this. But not Papi and not the RedSox they are over paying for him and he wants more. To be over paid and ask for more is not normal, but these are the Red Sox so normal doesn't apply. The nightmare never ends
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    Hi moon. I don't want to go back and look up posts but I believe his stance on Ortiz was how important it was to bring David back, and at a high rate ($12 million I think) .... of course there were race allegations against posters, fans who wanted Ortiz gone... I kept quiet but obviously 99.9% of the posters who wanted to let DO walk were basing it on baseball reasons.

    I'll give you a quick review:

    He called me racist for suggesting offering him an $8M base with plenty of incentives that could bring him to $13M. 8 months later he said he'd offer almost identical to what I had said. Then, when the numbers came out 6-8 weeks ago, he flipped again, and said we needed Papi and should offer him $15M.

    In short, he's been all over the map sliding his Balsawood goalposts here and there, but overall, he has been Papi's strongest board advocate, no matter what his age is, no matter that he doesn't hustle, no matter that he has undermined management publicy, no matter that he disappeared in September and hasn't been very clutch in years... He's Papi, and that is all that has mattered to softy the clown.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    Don't be shocked if he gets the whole thing. His numbers are going to be the only thing they will look at, nothing else. I think 15 - 16 million for Big Papi. And watch out if he matches last years numbers in 2012. Then what do the Sox do?

    People assume that just because you had a very good year, you will get a raise. Papi was overpayed for 2011 to begin with. If you compare his 2009-2010 numbers with other DHs, he did not deserve what he got last year (apart from his actual 2011 season numbers). Some were surprised we took the 2011 option at $12.5M. He did better than almost anyone expected, but it is not a cinch he wins the big award.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    I agree that the Sox 1.5% raise is a little low, but Ortiz submitting a 16MM dollar number may have saved them.....becuase I cannot see how an aribitrator could give him that. Ortiz number 0f 12.5 last year was given to him in 07 after 3 years where he avwergaed 47 HRs and 142 Rbis, During the 5 year deal he averaged 33 Hrs and 100 RBIs....so last year was not out of that contract norm. Plus at the time he signed the Contract , it was based upon what the DH market was getting paid.....now , even if a team has a fulltime DH, you are hard pressed to find one making over 10mm. Adam Dunns contract from last year will probably be brought up by Ortiz agent but he was 31 at the time and played 35 games in the field. Ortiz has no comparables to point to that justifies 16mm....I let it go to Arb and if he gets it....so be it..lets face if if they had offered him a 2 year deal at an average of the 12.65 they offered this year, everyone would have thought they were overpaying him, so why is that 12.65 number so outrageous.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    So if the arb ruling goes in favor of the player and he is awarded $16 M--which will not happen---but if it did, the Sox can terminate him on up to two occasions and only pay him a portion of what he is due.

    Ortiz will not get a full $4 M raise, that's outrageous. a 23 % increase. If they get to the Hearing one or the other amount will be determined by the Arbitrator, either  in favor of the player or the team. The Sox did offer an increase--if I'm the Sox I roll the dice--more hearings have been decided in favor of Management. Ortiz is not a position player--he's truly one demensional. He is being paid twice the going rate for DH's already.

    If I'm Ortiz and the Sox, it's one year at $13 M.  No way he's getting $16. Please don't give him a multi year.
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    In Response to Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration:
    [QUOTE]I asked this on another thread, what did the Yankees pay for the DH position in recent years? Where are the forum Yankee fans when you need them since they are always here loaded with RS facts and opinions on an enemy forum.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Last year - Yankees basically paid Posada's salary which was 13.1 million. 2010 - they had Nick Johnson tapped for DH at 5.5 million. Of course he got hurt and they mixed and matched.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    If the Sox have done one smart thing during this offseason it's not to go beyond a year with Ortiz.
    At his age, once he declines and loses bat speed he'll go down hill quickly.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Big Papi wants $16M, should've never offered arbitration

    I said that here many times, There is no way he's worth anyway near 16 mil, the RS could have brought in two very good starting pitchers for that amount of money. 

    What the RS will get from Ortiz is more of the same, Slow base path clogging fat as.. ortiz ruining the flow of the  of the game. 

    but he will hit home runs when thay are not needed, and drive in runs when the RS are already up by 5 runs, 

    Then they uninformed RD fools will say just how great this selish Fat As.. is.


     

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