Big Rays Royals trade

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to traven's comment:
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    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to traven's comment:
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    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to traven's comment:
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    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to traven's comment:
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    Agree, the Sox just don't have the horses available to pull off a major deal like that.  Ells is the best they are willing to let go and he isn't worth that much since the gaining team only has control of him for 1 yr.  Not much in the minors to deal either since the Sox showcased all of them this past year due to the huge amount of injuries and none of them really looked that great.  I think their best bet is to try to sign FA Lohse for whatever it takes and hope he can pitch in the AL East.

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    the sox didn't showcase any of our prospects...our best prospects are not even ready for the bigs...what are you talking about?are you in your own world or somthing? 

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    They brought the whole Paw Sox team up at some point during the season...aren't any of them considered prospects?  What do you call them?

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    who?

    carpenter?

    nava?

    kalish?

    gomez?

    mortensen?

    lavarnway?

    are you for real? prospects? did i miss anyone?

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    You missed the two best that the Sox brought up...are you for real???

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    because we are not trading tazawa..and iglesias? ok whatever you say...you lost boy...silly to think you are for real..my bad..you are in your own world..i'll leave you alone...

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    Middlebrooks was a prospect...and so was Ciriaco..I guess you really don't follow the Sox that much do you?

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    ciriaco is not a prospect..come on..middlebrooks is our 3B i don't think he is a prospect anymore? do you?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to traven's comment:
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    I think the Sox believe that their dream acquisitions are already in the Sox system and it is just a matter of watching them progress from A and AA to the Paw Sox and then on to the big team and they are more than willing to wait rather than take a chance trading any of their current players for MLB ready prospects.

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    right now i agree with you...but we need starting pitching right now,

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    ...and I agree with you on this point...SP is the major need for the current Sox team.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to traven's comment:
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    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    In response to traven's comment:
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    Agree, the Sox just don't have the horses available to pull off a major deal like that.  Ells is the best they are willing to let go and he isn't worth that much since the gaining team only has control of him for 1 yr.  Not much in the minors to deal either since the Sox showcased all of them this past year due to the huge amount of injuries and none of them really looked that great.  I think their best bet is to try to sign FA Lohse for whatever it takes and hope he can pitch in the AL East.

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    the sox didn't showcase any of our prospects...our best prospects are not even ready for the bigs...what are you talking about?are you in your own world or somthing? 

    [/QUOTE]

    They brought the whole Paw Sox team up at some point during the season...aren't any of them considered prospects?  What do you call them?

    [/QUOTE]
    who?

    carpenter?

    nava?

    kalish?

    gomez?

    mortensen?

    lavarnway?

    are you for real? prospects? did i miss anyone?

    [/QUOTE]

    You missed the two best that the Sox brought up...are you for real???

    [/QUOTE]
    because we are not trading tazawa..and iglesias? ok whatever you say...you lost boy...silly to think you are for real..my bad..you are in your own world..i'll leave you alone...

    [/QUOTE]

    Middlebrooks was a prospect...and so was Ciriaco..I guess you really don't follow the Sox that much do you?

    [/QUOTE]

    ciriaco is not a prospect..come on..middlebrooks is our 3B i don't think he is a prospect anymore? do you?

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    it sure looks to me that i do follow the sox more than you...because you are sounding more silly each time you post.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    i'm not here to fight or make trouble..maybe you are tired and need sleep?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    i'm not here to fight or make trouble..maybe you are tired and need sleep?

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    My original point was that the Sox do not have the horses to pull off a trade like the Rays did with the Royals because they don't have what the Rays had to trade -- front line pitching and they don't have anyone in the minors the Royals would have taken either for Wil Myers.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to raider3524's comment:
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    i'm not here to fight or make trouble..maybe you are tired and need sleep?

    [/QUOTE]

    My original point was that the Sox do not have the horses to pull off a trade like the Rays did with the Royals because they don't have what the Rays had to trade -- front line pitching and they don't have anyone in the minors the Royals would have taken either for Wil Myers.

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    ok..sorry..i'm going sleep...have a goodnight.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    No apology necessary...just one fan's disagreement with another fan.  Have a great day tomorrow.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from smuldy84. Show smuldy84's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    I keep hearing about the Red Sox and a need for pitching. Doesn't anyone follow the good teams in this town? Namely the Patriots and Celtics? When do good teams ever, ever take need over talent. Bottom line is if you could ship Lester & Dubront for that package you are crazy not to. Centerpiece bats are rarer than sub 3 ERA pitchers in post steroid ball, and clearly more talent went to the Rays than went to the Royals. You sacrifice 2013 for that if need be and if you can't replace  Lester with Sanchez. It isn't likely the Red Sox will be legitimate contenders this coming season anyway, and even if just 2 of the 4 players in that haul stick, so long as Myers is one of them, that just made the Rays a whole lot better in terms of pure talent for the next 6 years. And it would have made the Red Sox a whole lot better in terms of talent too.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Agreed .... 2013 is a wash and that is okay with me if we are bringing in long-term players to help make this team great for the next decade

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from smuldy84. Show smuldy84's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
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    Agreed .... 2013 is a wash and that is okay with me if we are bringing in long-term players to help make this team great for the next decade

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    Or even just have some kind of direction other than 'we hope we hit on other people's leftovers cause that worked in Oakland at the turn of the millenium before teams other than the Royals discovered metrics that properly evaluate player's worths' combined with 'don't worry every prospect we have in A/AA is going to be succesful cause that always happens like with our franchise 1b Lars Andersen and hall of famer Frankie Rodriguez'

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Tampa robbed K.C.

     

    Although, the deal is making me wonder if there is something about Wil Myers we don't know about. You don't trade a top 3 prospect and a top 20 prospect for 2 years of James Shields and a middle reliever. Hard to understand.

     

    I view Lester and Shields as equal in value. Yes, Shields has been the better pitcher over the last two seasons. However, Lester was better 3-4-5 years ago. He is more then 3 years younger. He is a lefty. He has had worse defense behind him. He has had a much better hitters park to pitch in, especially for a lefty. Career road ERA's....Lester 3.64....Shields 4.54. Change that. I think Lester has a bit more value.

     

    K.C. are idiots.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    If KC were to have signed Greinke to go along with Shields then it is a great trade.... but as it stands now Shields will not be able to carry them to the play-offs.

    I am anxious to see if Myers starts April in Tampa, probably at #6 in that line-up? They are as desperate for power as KC was (is) for pitching.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from xxxcrwn. Show xxxcrwn's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

     Tampa gambled on trading 2 pretty good ML starters for pontential. One of them would have left soon as a FA, but the other one was const controlled for at least a couple more seasons. They have 2 holes in their rotation, so the Sox now have competition for the remaining decent FA starters. What if Wil Myers turns out to be the next Clint Hurdle? The chance of that happening are greater than him being the next Griffey Jr.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    If Myers were somehow to average even 25/100 for 6 years then it is a good trade. They were going to let Shields go either way... and it sounds like there is a good pitching prospect (Odorizzi) coming in from KC to so he may be the silver lining for Tampa.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    End of the day this trade is about moneys owed to Shields, nothing more nothing less. In trading Shield and Davis. The pitching rich Ray's just traded away Shields a 200 plus innings top of the roation pitcher and Davis 100 plus innings who served as thier long man/spot starter last year. Innings that they're going to have to get from someone else in 2013. I can't see how this trade makes the Rays better?...The team that got the haul was the Royals. Wil Meyer though a very good prospects has yet to put up numbers at the big league level. History suggest that these types of deals never bare fruit for the team trading away pitching...

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:
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    Looks great for the Rays, they will miss Shields though, sort of their staff anchor for a while, dependable and pretty consistently good.

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    Agree. This trade will hurt Rays in short term, but will be a great trade in the long term. Posters can tell me all they want about all the young pitching the Rays have in minors, but they will not replace what Shields and Davis would have given them next year. 200 IP pitchers don't grow on trees, and there is a reason he was called Big Game James, Davis was a quality arm who provided great depth for rotation. That leaves Price / Hellickson as 2 big arms at top of rotation, and will need Moore to take that next big step more than ever. This move really puts a lot of pressure on guys like Moore and Cobb, not always a good thing at this level. But Rays would have had Shields for at most the next 2 years anyways, and don't sleep on the other guys Rays received in deal, Montgomery had terrible year but was one of their top prospects, and the other pitcher would probably have pitched for Royals this year and a 19 yr old 3B prospect a great haul with Myers probably the no brainer of the prospects. If Myers becomes what most think he will, this could be the next Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell type deal.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
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    End of the day this trade is about moneys owed to Shields, nothing more nothing less. In trading Shield and Davis. The pitching rich Ray's just traded away Shields a 200 plus innings top of the roation pitcher and Davis 100 plus innings who served as thier long man/spot starter last year. Innings that they're going to have to get from someone else in 2013. I can't see how this trade makes the Rays better?...The team that got the haul was the Royals. Wil Meyer though a very good prospects has yet to put up numbers at the big league level. History suggest that these types of deals never bare fruit for the team trading away pitching...

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    thanks BT

    due to my lack of love for prospects

    I thought I was the only one who wasn't on the

    '' rays are the clear winners'' band wagon

    if payroll wasn't in play, I would have wanted some one

    with a little mlb experience that would be more likely to help this yr

    that said, looking at recent history

    it's kind of hard to imagine that KC management

    got the better of TB

    [/QUOTE] I feel the same way Zac.

                   Prospects are defined as players who have'nt accomplished anything at the MLL.

                   The one exception being in TWM's dictionary.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    End of the day this trade is about moneys owed to Shields, nothing more nothing less. In trading Shield and Davis. The pitching rich Ray's just traded away Shields a 200 plus innings top of the roation pitcher and Davis 100 plus innings who served as thier long man/spot starter last year. Innings that they're going to have to get from someone else in 2013. I can't see how this trade makes the Rays better?...The team that got the haul was the Royals. Wil Meyer though a very good prospects has yet to put up numbers at the big league level. History suggest that these types of deals never bare fruit for the team trading away pitching...

    [/QUOTE]


    thanks BT

    due to my lack of love for prospects

    I thought I was the only one who wasn't on the

    '' rays are the clear winners'' band wagon

    if payroll wasn't in play, I would have wanted some one

    with a little mlb experience that would be more likely to help this yr

    that said, looking at recent history

    it's kind of hard to imagine that KC management

    got the better of TB

    [/QUOTE]


    Morning Zac and happy holidays...

    As with all trades you have to wait a few years to fully evaluate, who got the better of the deal...Question, do you remember whom the indians recieved for Sabathia or the Twins for Santana? It is from this perspective that I generally want to be on the side of the team aquiring the pitcher vs the team that gets the boat load of prospects...200 quality innings is hard to find and when you a have that guy who also pitches big in big games it's invaluable. In this case Shield's was seen as the veteren leader of the Rays staff and what can't be meaured by statistics is the intangable of leadership...

    I'd also be wary of underestimating the Royal's front office and or the effect that adding a guy like Shield will haver on this team. End of the day they have a very strong nucleaus of young hitters and a couple of plus young arms too.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    The Sox could not have made the same trade even if they wanted to.   They are looking for pitchers like Shields and Davis much more than they can give them up at this point.

    The Sox also have not shown the willingness to insert such young guys like Myers right into their starting lineup like the Rays and the Royals have.  When was the last young guy who did well in the minors placed directly into the starting lineup to begin a season for Boston?  They probably would have put Myers at Pawtucket anyway for at least the beginning of the season, and that could be where Tampa puts him as well if he struggles in spring training.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to raider3524's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Agree, the Sox just don't have the horses available to pull off a major deal like that.  Ells is the best they are willing to let go and he isn't worth that much since the gaining team only has control of him for 1 yr.  Not much in the minors to deal either since the Sox showcased all of them this past year due to the huge amount of injuries and none of them really looked that great.  I think their best bet is to try to sign FA Lohse for whatever it takes and hope he can pitch in the AL East.

    [/QUOTE]

    the sox didn't showcase any of our prospects...our best prospects are not even ready for the bigs...what are you talking about?are you in your own world or somthing? 

    [/QUOTE]

    They brought the whole Paw Sox team up at some point during the season...aren't any of them considered prospects?  What do you call them?

    [/QUOTE]

    Typically you keep your prospects in AA and fill AAA with career minor leaguers and journey man. Other than Lin and possibly Kalish you could describe everyone the Sox shuttled back and forth that way. The Ciracios and Navas of the world are there to save other higher ceiling players options.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to charliedarling's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Sox could not have made the same trade even if they wanted to.   They are looking for pitchers like Shields and Davis much more than they can give them up at this point.

    The Sox also have not shown the willingness to insert such young guys like Myers right into their starting lineup like the Rays and the Royals have.  When was the last young guy who did well in the minors placed directly into the starting lineup to begin a season for Boston?  They probably would have put Myers at Pawtucket anyway for at least the beginning of the season, and that could be where Tampa puts him as well if he struggles in spring training.

    [/QUOTE]

    Granted he didn't start the season in Boston, but Will Middlebrooks didn't spend very long in Pawtucket. I don't think he even played a full season for the PawSox.

     
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