Big Rays Royals trade

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    they royals got shields (who is money) and davis (long relief/starter) for a slew of prospects. at the end of the day your getting 2 known commodities for a series of unknowns. won't know for sure "who won" until those prospects step foot into the mlb.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well said.  The Rays are now one pitcher injury away from needing pitching.  Meanwhile, the expectation is that Myers does not play at the MLB level this year, except after July.  That being the case, the Rays have not improved their offense at all...at least for 2013.  As Sox fans we should be happy the Rays made this deal.  They just gave up some ground to the Sox, who can still sign Sanchez and end up with depth and quality in their rotation.  Maybe not quite as good as the Rays, but almost as good.  And with much better offense.

     

    Even after this trade, the Rays have a way better roation than ours...

    1) Price

    2) Hellickson

    3) Niemann

    4) Moore

    5) Cobb

    6) Archer/Ordorizzi (KC's AAA pitcher of the year in 2012) or Montgomery (Was KC's #1 prospect before an off year in '12)

     

    The Rays may not be quite as strong next year, but they always find a way to pick up marginal players to fill the gaps until the proaspects are ready.

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to bobbysu's comment:

    This was Moore's first year, expected up and down season. Starts pitching with his head, this kid has all the talent, to be dominant. Can you imagine if he ever picks up the Change-up that Hellickson has, whew.



    And he has a very team freindly contract to boot!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to mef429's comment:

    Ithey royals got shields (who is money) and davis (long relief/starter) for a slew of prospects. at the end of the day your getting 2 known commodities for a series of unknowns. won't know for sure "who won" until those prospects step foot into the mlb.



    This is a horrible trade by the Royals because they're trading away their furure for a couple of good veterans...but not good enough to make them serious contenders. Shields is 30 years old. This writer hits the nail on the head, in accessing this deal:  

    My first take was that this was a “big, big gamble.” Now that we know we know that the Royals have thrown in Jake Odorizzi, it goes from “gamble” to “malpractice.”

    Odorizzi pitched two games in Kansas City in 2012, but his work on the farm has been quite nice. In 145 total innings across Double and Triple-A in 2012, Odorizzi posted a 3.03 ERA and 135/50 K/BB ratio. And he’s just 22.

    To sum up: the Royals gave up a top slugging prospect and a guy who figures to be a number three starter — each of whom are under team control for six years — for a veteran starter who is under team control for two years max, and a swingman who, one would assume, the Royals want to start again.

    I think it’s quite possible that this trade makes the Royals better in the short term and, likewise, may make the Rays worse in the short term. But it’s not going to make the Royals good enough to seriously contend in that short term and really kills them in the long term.

    Not liking this deal from the Royals perspective. Not liking it at all: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/09/rays-and-royals-blockbuster-royals-trade-will-myers-to-tampa-bay-for-james-shields-and-wade-davis/

    Meanwhile, from the standpoint of the Rays:  http://www2.tbo.com/news/rays/2012/dec/09/11/rays-trade-shields-davis-to-royals-for-four-prospe-ar-580359/#poll_620

    The Sox should take lessons from the Oakland A'a and Rays on how to build your team through the minor league system, and cheap free agents. Then, when the opportunity presents itself to land that stud pitcher, someone like a Pedro Martinez...you augment, and strike. The Sox have the money to  add a great player or two. The A's and Rays don't. There needs to be a balance. But, the corp of a great team must be home grown.        

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    they royals got shields (who is money) and davis (long relief/starter) for a slew of prospects. at the end of the day your getting 2 known commodities for a series of unknowns. won't know for sure "who won" until those prospects step foot into the mlb.




    Well said.  The Rays are now one pitcher injury away from needing pitching.  Meanwhile, the expectation is that Myers does not play at the MLB level this year, except after July.  That being the case, the Rays have not improved their offense at all...at least for 2013.  As Sox fans we should be happy the Rays made this deal.  They just gave up some ground to the Sox, who can still sign Sanchez and end up with depth and quality in their rotation.  Maybe not quite as good as the Rays, but almost as good.  And with much better offense.

     

    Even after this trade, the Rays have a way better roation than ours...

    1) Price

    2) Hellickson

    3) Niemann

    4) Moore

    5) Cobb

    6) Archer/Ordorizzi (KC's AAA pitcher of the year in 2012) or Montgomery (Was KC's #1 prospect before an off year in '12)

     

    The Rays may not be quite as strong next year, but they always find a way to pick up marginal players to fill the gaps until the proaspects are ready.

     




    Granted.  On paper, it looks like the Rays still have us.  But let's say Lester gets straightened out and Buchholz pitches uninjured, the way he did in 2010.  If the Sox were to sign Sanchez and he pitches as he has over the last 3 seasons, then the Sox top three all compete very well with the Rays's top three.  Then it comes to the bottom of the rotation.  Lots of ifs there, especially for Sox.  but if Moore comes into his own, well then the Rays will definitely have the better rotation.  Perhaps the best in all baseball. 

    The Sox still have the offense over them, though.  Myers is not scheduled to be an offensive help to the Rays in 2013.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    they royals got shields (who is money) and davis (long relief/starter) for a slew of prospects. at the end of the day your getting 2 known commodities for a series of unknowns. won't know for sure "who won" until those prospects step foot into the mlb.




    Well said.  The Rays are now one pitcher injury away from needing pitching.  Meanwhile, the expectation is that Myers does not play at the MLB level this year, except after July.  That being the case, the Rays have not improved their offense at all...at least for 2013.  As Sox fans we should be happy the Rays made this deal.  They just gave up some ground to the Sox, who can still sign Sanchez and end up with depth and quality in their rotation.  Maybe not quite as good as the Rays, but almost as good.  And with much better offense.

     

    Even after this trade, the Rays have a way better roation than ours...

    1) Price

    2) Hellickson

    3) Niemann

    4) Moore

    5) Cobb

    6) Archer/Ordorizzi (KC's AAA pitcher of the year in 2012) or Montgomery (Was KC's #1 prospect before an off year in '12)

     

    The Rays may not be quite as strong next year, but they always find a way to pick up marginal players to fill the gaps until the proaspects are ready.

     




    Granted.  On paper, it looks like the Rays still have us.  But let's say Lester gets straightened out and Buchholz pitches uninjured, the way he did in 2010.  If the Sox were to sign Sanchez and he pitches as he has over the last 3 seasons, then the Sox top three all compete very well with the Rays's top three.  Then it comes to the bottom of the rotation.  Lots of ifs there, especially for Sox.  but if Moore comes into his own, well then the Rays will definitely have the better rotation.  Perhaps the best in all baseball. 

    The Sox still have the offense over them, though.  Myers is not scheduled to be an offensive help to the Rays in 2013.



         What difference does it make if the Sox are better than the Rays, if they can't beat Toronto, Baltimore, or the Yankees? This team needs to forget this "bridge" BS, and stop looking for quick fixes. Fans won't mind a couple of down seasons, so long as the Red Sox have a plan, and have some good prospects on the farm to impliment the plan.

     

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    they royals got shields (who is money) and davis (long relief/starter) for a slew of prospects. at the end of the day your getting 2 known commodities for a series of unknowns. won't know for sure "who won" until those prospects step foot into the mlb.




    Well said.  The Rays are now one pitcher injury away from needing pitching.  Meanwhile, the expectation is that Myers does not play at the MLB level this year, except after July.  That being the case, the Rays have not improved their offense at all...at least for 2013.  As Sox fans we should be happy the Rays made this deal.  They just gave up some ground to the Sox, who can still sign Sanchez and end up with depth and quality in their rotation.  Maybe not quite as good as the Rays, but almost as good.  And with much better offense.

     

    Even after this trade, the Rays have a way better roation than ours...

    1) Price

    2) Hellickson

    3) Niemann

    4) Moore

    5) Cobb

    6) Archer/Ordorizzi (KC's AAA pitcher of the year in 2012) or Montgomery (Was KC's #1 prospect before an off year in '12)

     

    The Rays may not be quite as strong next year, but they always find a way to pick up marginal players to fill the gaps until the proaspects are ready.

     




    Granted.  On paper, it looks like the Rays still have us.  But let's say Lester gets straightened out and Buchholz pitches uninjured, the way he did in 2010.  If the Sox were to sign Sanchez and he pitches as he has over the last 3 seasons, then the Sox top three all compete very well with the Rays's top three.  Then it comes to the bottom of the rotation.  Lots of ifs there, especially for Sox.  but if Moore comes into his own, well then the Rays will definitely have the better rotation.  Perhaps the best in all baseball. 

    The Sox still have the offense over them, though.  Myers is not scheduled to be an offensive help to the Rays in 2013.



    Sorry, I've been hearing these same 'what ifs" for 5 years now.

    One could just as easily say, "what of Moore blossums this year?" or "What if hellickson get even better?" or "What if Price goes 20-5 with a 2.56 ERA?" Ooops, he just did that, and his WHIP has improved for2 straight years.

    Yes, if we get Sanchez, we can compete, but I still think TB's starting 5 or 6 beats ours with Sanchez. Pitching wins when it counts. 

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    What I found interesting was that the Tampa Bay Rays, who have averaged 91.8 wins the last five seasons, apparently are building for the future while the Kansas City Royals, who have averaged 92 losses over the same period, apparently are in a win-now mode.

    I've come to like the trade for each side.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to hill55's comment:

    What I found interesting was that the Tampa Bay Rays, who have averaged 91.8 wins the last five seasons, apparently are building for the future while the Kansas City Royals, who have averaged 92 losses over the same period, apparently are in a win-now mode.

    I've come to like the trade for each side.



         Again...as a Royals fan, why do you want this deal, if it doesn't make your team appreciably better? I don't see the acquisition of the 30 year old Shields making the Royals much better than a .500 team. I'd rather go with the kids and, once the kids develop  into a .500 team, perhaps then pull the trigger on this type of trade. 

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to hill55's comment:

    What I found interesting was that the Tampa Bay Rays, who have averaged 91.8 wins the last five seasons, apparently are building for the future while the Kansas City Royals, who have averaged 92 losses over the same period, apparently are in a win-now mode.

    I've come to like the trade for each side.



    TB has always looked to build for the future: see the Kazmir, Garza, Bartlett, and other deals. They are in a constant cycle of trading players about to get their big payday for a slew of prospects. Since the cycle never seems to be broken, they continue to win.

    Perhaps no other team in MLb could afford to trade 2 pitchers like Shields and Davis and still have such a fine rotation on paper.

    KC has had one of the top farm systems for years and years. It's about time they made a push for temporary excellence. They still have a good amount of prospects and young players on their roster to look forward to.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    Again...as a Royals fan, why do you want this deal, if it doesn't make your team appreciably better? I don't see the acquisition of the 30 year old Shields making the Royals much better than a .500 team. I'd rather go with the kids and, once the kids develop  into a .500 team, perhaps then pull the trigger on this type of trade.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb--royals-bet-big-james-shields-blockbuster-trade-with-rays-092108961.html

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/big-leaguers-prospects-and-uncertainty/

    The Royals will need big contributions from Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Alcides Escobar, Salvador Perez, Jeff Franceour, Lorenzo Cain and especially Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas. But the core is there.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Sorry, I've been hearing these same 'what ifs" for 5 years now.

    LOL...I remember 3 or 4 years ago some poster claimed we had "six aces" (which I think at that time included Wakefield) and that became a running joke all season long.

    But I know what you mean. In theory, Beckett/Lester/Lackey/Buchholz/Dice-K could have been an awesome rotation for the past several seasons; in practice, it didn't work out that way. Lester/Buch/Lackey/Doubront/whoever also has the potential to be a very good group next year if everyone stays healthy and puts it all together at once, but we should have learned by now not to count on that.

    TB is much better right now based on results. Their pitching depth is almost awe-inspiring.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to hill55's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    Again...as a Royals fan, why do you want this deal, if it doesn't make your team appreciably better? I don't see the acquisition of the 30 year old Shields making the Royals much better than a .500 team. I'd rather go with the kids and, once the kids develop  into a .500 team, perhaps then pull the trigger on this type of trade.

     

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb--royals-bet-big-james-shields-blockbuster-trade-with-rays-092108961.html

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/big-leaguers-prospects-and-uncertainty/

    The Royals will need big contributions from Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Alcides Escobar, Salavador Perez, Jeff Franceour, Lorenzo Cain and especially Eric Hosmer and Mike Moustakas. But the core is there.



         The Royals lost 92 games last year. They are far from being a .500 team:

    http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/mlb_trade_did_rays_fleece_royals_by_trading_james_shields_and_wade_davis_for_wil_myers/12402970

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Personally, I think KC did just fine in this deal....anytime you can get two Quality proven ML pitchers for prospects. Wil Myers may end up being phenomenal, but he is still an unknown, an unknown who k'd 140 times in the minors last year.....so depsite being #3 rated prospect, no one can be sure how he will translate to the ML level, not evryone ends up Mike Trout. Lars Anderson was the 19th rated prospect in all of Baseball once.....think the sox don;t wish they had cashed in that chip earlier.....Carl Pavano was considered a Top prospect.....was it is mistake to trade him to get Pedro....a guy alot of scouts thought for sure would have a short career because he was so slight. KC has a young core of offensive talent.....they desperately needed to get some pitching to support it.....and a guy like Shields could rub off alot of good on Hochever. The Al Central is a winnable division.....good for them for going for it.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    The Royals lost 92 games last year. They are far from being a .500 team:


    What does that say about an aging team that lost 93 games last year?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    It says if they don't get some pitching help soon, they may lose 94 games this year.  The Sox finished 26 games behind the aging Yanks, and 21 games behind the Orioles and Rays.  They finished 4 games behind the Blue Jays who are now favored to win the division next year. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    I think the FO is either sleeping at the wheel, or just not interested in thinking outside the box if their original plan fails.  We missed on Myers, Haren, Grienke and McCarthy yet we wanted Dempster and signed Gomes?

    I hope the original plan "whatever that may be" works because pretty soon there won't be much left but to trade.

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Question, do you remember whom the indians recieved for Sabathia or the Twins for Santana?

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Do you remember who the 5th player was in the Tex from Texas to Atlanta trade was? Beau Jones! Of course the Rangers also got Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Elvis Andrus. Sometimes those prospects turn out just fine.

     

    As for the Santana and Sabathia trades, neither team got one single player ever ranked in the top 20 of the BA top prospect rankings. Its very possible that in a few weeks when the new BA rankings come out, the Rays will have gotten THREE players ranked in the top 20 atleast once. With Wil Myers likely ranked about 3rd.

     

    Myers is not Matt Laporta or Carlos Gomes. Not to mention that Shields is not Santana or Sabathia. For me its a bewildering trade.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Myers has hype. And MINOR LEAGUE accomplishments. None of you would like shields and davis added to the blosox staff? Plz.

    Shields has an a hole attitude i like.

    Guess the sox prospects are just talk. Is ellsbury the only real trade bait?

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to BMav's comment:

    Do you remember who the 5th player was in the Tex from Texas to Atlanta trade was? Beau Jones! Of course the Rangers also got Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Elvis Andrus. Sometimes those prospects turn out just fine.


    Beau Jones:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=jones-001bea

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

      The Tampa Bay Welfare Rays strike again.  They refuse to spend and thus sabotage their revenue because the rest of MLB subsidizes them.  There should be salary cap and a salary floor.  Welfare should not be a way of life.  Get a job TB.  I don't care if  Medicaid, Welfare Check, Section 8 Housing and Food Stamps pay more than work.  If Bill and Newt took over MLB, the Rays would  have burned through their 5 year limit long ago.

     
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