Big Rays Royals trade

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i know people have been bashing chris capauno lately but i could see him as a trade target. last season he pitched 198 innings with a 3.72 ERA and a 1.22 WHIP (better than anyone on our staff last season). he cant cost anymore than "farm scraps" as softy would call them because LA has 8 starters on their roster.

    i also wouldn't be opposed to signing loshe for 3 years or trading for johan santana. the mets say they're willing to eat most of that money but its safe to say we could give up considerably less prospects and take on most/all of the remaining contract. we certainly have the space to do that and it would keep our farm system intact.

    [/QUOTE]

    Loshe, Dempster, capuano etc., are all NL pitchers...CC has a high WHIP, gives up a lot of longballs and a lot of hits.  FB and GB rates are both about 40%.

    If he comes cheap, then I guess Ok, but no way on Dempster at 12M for 3 years. Thats borderline insanity.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the deal was great for both teams.  KC needed SP - they have hitting.  Rays needed hitting - they have SP.  Teams were well matched for that trade.  It remains to be seen who faired better.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree, but going by past histories, Shields will get hurt or decline sharply, and the 4 prospects may or may not help the Rays in the future, but the sheer stockpiling of massive quantities of other team's top prospects, their own picks and the unprecedented accumulation of supplemental comp picks over the last few years has set this team up well to compete for the near, mid and longterm.

    [/QUOTE]

    Fortunately the Rays don't have the money to spend on a few good FAs or they would be pretty tough to beat in the AL East.  It will be interesting to see what happens to Price when the time comes to offer him a contract.  Will they do like they did with Longoria or will they cave and let him go FA?

    [/QUOTE]


    Unless they move (I suggested NC as the best slot), my guess is the same cycle will repeat itself. As the prospects of this years trades and recent year drafts become solid players, they will take the places of price and Longoria as they are exited before they reach their big payday years.

    TB would rarely let a guy like Ellsbury walk for just one measly sandwich comp pick.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    TB would rarely let a guy like Ellsbury walk for just one measly sandwich comp pick.

    In 2010, they let the following CC, Soriano, and 7 other players walk for draft pick.  They only traded Shields and Garza if I'm not mistaken.  They usually let guys just play through, though every case is different.  Using Upton as the closest comp to Ellsbury, I beleive they only get one measly comp pick.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    TB would rarely let a guy like Ellsbury walk for just one measly sandwich comp pick.

    In 2010, they let the following CC, Soriano, and 7 other players walk for draft pick.  They only traded Shields and Garza if I'm not mistaken.  They usually let guys just play through, though every case is different.  Using Upton as the closest comp to Ellsbury, I beleive they only get one measly comp pick.

    [/QUOTE]


    In 2010 they could get 2 picks with a type-A and 1 from type-b. Now they HAVE to offer a qualifying offer and only get 1 sandwich round pick for each qualifying offer made. The draft picks arent as valuable nowadays. They still have value, dont get me wrong. Just not nearly as much.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the deal was great for both teams.  KC needed SP - they have hitting.  Rays needed hitting - they have SP.  Teams were well matched for that trade.  It remains to be seen who faired better.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree, but going by past histories, Shields will get hurt or decline sharply, and the 4 prospects may or may not help the Rays in the future, but the sheer stockpiling of massive quantities of other team's top prospects, their own picks and the unprecedented accumulation of supplemental comp picks over the last few years has set this team up well to compete for the near, mid and longterm.

    [/QUOTE]

    Fortunately the Rays don't have the money to spend on a few good FAs or they would be pretty tough to beat in the AL East.  It will be interesting to see what happens to Price when the time comes to offer him a contract.  Will they do like they did with Longoria or will they cave and let him go FA?

    [/QUOTE]


    Unless they move (I suggested NC as the best slot), my guess is the same cycle will repeat itself. As the prospects of this years trades and recent year drafts become solid players, they will take the places of price and Longoria as they are exited before they reach their big payday years.

    TB would rarely let a guy like Ellsbury walk for just one measly sandwich comp pick.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree there.  Unfortunately it took many years of last place finishes to achieve what they have achieved with their minor league system.  I also think that their manager has the ability to get the absolute most from any young player.  They tend to hold their medium to good players for the arbitration time and sign the great players to the first long term contract that takes them to about age 30 and then cut them loose.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    I dont believe in NL vs AL pitchers.  I understand that the game is slightly different; however, I disagree that a pitcher can be better suited for one of the two leagues.

    I just think that we see a lot of D grade pitchers getting buy in the NL because its easier to pitch in.  I wouldnt call these guys NL pitchers though.  Id call them bad pitchers who need the guise of pitching in the NL. 

    I wouldnt put Ryan Dempster in this category, for whatever thats worth (not to imply that I want him at anything above 2/20)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I dont believe in NL vs AL pitchers.  I understand that the game is slightly different; however, I disagree that a pitcher can be better suited for one of the two leagues.

    I just think that we see a lot of D grade pitchers getting buy in the NL because its easier to pitch in.  I wouldnt call these guys NL pitchers though.  Id call them bad pitchers who need the guise of pitching in the NL. 

    I wouldnt put Ryan Dempster in this category, for whatever thats worth (not to imply that I want him at anything above 2/20)

    [/QUOTE]


    NL is better to pitchers because the AL have a bunch of smaller parks and the NL has some big parks. Thats what people mean by saying a certain guy is an "NL Pitcher" I think.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    I agree there.  Unfortunately it took many years of last place finishes to achieve what they have achieved with their minor league system. 

    I strongly disagree here. While the top overall picks from long ago have helped and continue to influence this team now and into the future, since some of those players have been dealt for prospects that are still with the rays or have been traded for more prospects...., many of the Rays players were drafted in later rounds, the rays were never able to draft players that wanted big money, so they passed on many players to take lesser talents, and their farm now is stocked mostly with players they got in recent drafts loaded with comp picks from nontop draftees.

    The famous 2011 draft with 12 of the top 89 picks (but none above 24) is a prime example of the adjustments they made to the changing system.

    #24 from BOS for CC

    31 from NYY for Soriano (obtained by trade)

    38) sandwich for Soriano

    41) sand for CC

    42) sand Balfour

    52) sand for Hawpe (a brillianty midseason trade just to get this pick)

    56) san for Benoit

    59) sand for Choate

    60) sand for Qualls

    75) from Oak for Balfour

    Other than the CC picks, the rest were picks gained from Soriano and some scrap heap pitchers that could mostly be replaced from within their system or with replacement value players.

    In 2010, they got extra picks for LeVon Washington, Greg Zaun and K Diekroger

    I also think that their manager has the ability to get the absolute most from any young player. 

    Totally agree, plus he instills loyalty.

    They tend to hold their medium to good players for the arbitration time and sign the great players to the first long term contract that takes them to about age 30 and then cut them loose.

    and they have a knack for getting career best years from journeymen type players- see Rodney, Keppinger, Farnsworth, Kotchman, Soriano, ....

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    I dont believe in NL vs AL pitchers.  I understand that the game is slightly different; however, I disagree that a pitcher can be better suited for one of the two leagues.

    I just think that we see a lot of D grade pitchers getting buy in the NL because its easier to pitch in.  I wouldnt call these guys NL pitchers though.  Id call them bad pitchers who need the guise of pitching in the NL. 

    I totally agree and fine id absurd that some clowns think anyone from the NL who has no experience vs the AL East can never be a great pitcher for us.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree there.  Unfortunately it took many years of last place finishes to achieve what they have achieved with their minor league system. 

    I strongly disagree here. While the top overall picks from long ago have helped and continue to influence this team now and into the future, since some of those players have been dealt for prospects that are still with the rays or have been traded for more prospects...., many of the Rays players were drafted in later rounds, the rays were never able to draft players that wanted big money, so they passed on many players to take lesser talents, and their farm now is stocked mostly with players they got in recent drafts loaded with comp picks from nontop draftees.

    The famous 2011 draft with 12 of the top 89 picks (but none above 24) is a prime example of the adjustments they made to the changing system.

    #24 from BOS for CC

    31 from NYY for Soriano (obtained by trade)

    38) sandwich for Soriano

    41) sand for CC

    42) sand Balfour

    52) sand for Hawpe (a brillianty midseason trade just to get this pick)

    56) san for Benoit

    59) sand for Choate

    60) sand for Qualls

    75) from Oak for Balfour

    Other than the CC picks, the rest were picks gained from Soriano and some scrap heap pitchers that could mostly be replaced from within their system or with replacement value players.

    In 2010, they got extra picks for LeVon Washington, Greg Zaun and K Diekroger

    I also think that their manager has the ability to get the absolute most from any young player. 

    Totally agree, plus he instills loyalty.

    They tend to hold their medium to good players for the arbitration time and sign the great players to the first long term contract that takes them to about age 30 and then cut them loose.

    and they have a knack for getting career best years from journeymen type players- see Rodney, Keppinger, Farnsworth, Kotchman, Soriano, ....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I yield to your insight on the Rays picks of recent history.  It is just amazing how a team with a payroll of 1/3 to 1/2 of the largest payrolls manages to contend year after year.  My hat's off to them but do feel sorry that the real weakness of that team is a failure of the fans to support them in that dimly lit stadium they play in.  That is about all that keeps them from being solid frontrunners year after year.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree there.  Unfortunately it took many years of last place finishes to achieve what they have achieved with their minor league system. 

    I strongly disagree here. While the top overall picks from long ago have helped and continue to influence this team now and into the future, since some of those players have been dealt for prospects that are still with the rays or have been traded for more prospects...., many of the Rays players were drafted in later rounds, the rays were never able to draft players that wanted big money, so they passed on many players to take lesser talents, and their farm now is stocked mostly with players they got in recent drafts loaded with comp picks from nontop draftees.

    The famous 2011 draft with 12 of the top 89 picks (but none above 24) is a prime example of the adjustments they made to the changing system.

    #24 from BOS for CC

    31 from NYY for Soriano (obtained by trade)

    38) sandwich for Soriano

    41) sand for CC

    42) sand Balfour

    52) sand for Hawpe (a brillianty midseason trade just to get this pick)

    56) san for Benoit

    59) sand for Choate

    60) sand for Qualls

    75) from Oak for Balfour

    Other than the CC picks, the rest were picks gained from Soriano and some scrap heap pitchers that could mostly be replaced from within their system or with replacement value players.

    In 2010, they got extra picks for LeVon Washington, Greg Zaun and K Diekroger

    I also think that their manager has the ability to get the absolute most from any young player. 

    Totally agree, plus he instills loyalty.

    They tend to hold their medium to good players for the arbitration time and sign the great players to the first long term contract that takes them to about age 30 and then cut them loose.

    and they have a knack for getting career best years from journeymen type players- see Rodney, Keppinger, Farnsworth, Kotchman, Soriano, ....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I yield to your insight on the Rays picks of recent history.  It is just amazing how a team with a payroll of 1/3 to 1/2 of the largest payrolls manages to contend year after year.  My hat's off to them but do feel sorry that the real weakness of that team is a failure of the fans to support them in that dimly lit stadium they play in.  That is about all that keeps them from being solid frontrunners year after year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I imagine they could get a good tv deal soon. They cant put people in that cave they call a ball field, but they get good ratings on TV. More folks watch the games on TV down there.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    I imagine they could get a good tv deal soon. They cant put people in that cave they call a ball field, but they get good ratings on TV. More folks watch the games on TV down there.

    One major problem is that many people who live in Florida are transplants who already have strong team loyalty bonds with other teams. 

    Here in Sugar Land, TX, it's almost the same;  I see Red Sox, Yankee, and various other team logos more than the Astros.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    I yield to your insight on the Rays picks of recent history.  It is just amazing how a team with a payroll of 1/3 to 1/2 of the largest payrolls manages to contend year after year.  My hat's off to them but do feel sorry that the real weakness of that team is a failure of the fans to support them in that dimly lit stadium they play in.  That is about all that keeps them from being solid frontrunners year after year.

    One truly amazing thing beyond how so many players have great seasons when they come to TB, is how many of the players they deal drop off quickly. Here is a selected few big trades they have made before the Shields/Davis deal.:

    Soriano: He easily had his best career year in his only season with the Rays. They got 2 draft picks when he bolted, and he got hurt and played worse with the Yanks ever since.

    Garza: While his ERA has improved with the Cubs, I think pitching in the NL might adjust him to about even. However, he brought back to the Rays several players that are parts of their team now and in the near future: Chris Archer (rated #1 prospect), Kak-Ju Lee (a top 3 prospect now), R Chirinos, Sam Fuld, and B Guyer.

    Jason Bartlett: Has basically dropped off the planet in SD soon after the trade. (.752 OPS with TB to .591 with SD). He's only 32, so what's up here? The Rays got B Gomes, C Ramos, A Russell and C Figeroa in return.

    Scott Kazmir: Many were shocked that the Rays traded him in the middle of a playoff push, but have a looksee: TB ERA 3.92/ LAA ERA 5.31. The Rays got Sean Rodriguez, Alexander Torres and Matt Sweeney in return.

    Delmon Young: 1st pick overall in the 2003 draft. He now has a career OPS of .742 in over 3500 PAs. The Rays got garza and bartlett in return (see what they then got for those 2 in the above trades and work out all that they got for Young overall! WOW!)

    Their other top rated prospectsbefore the KC trade besides, Archer, Lee, Guyer and :

    2) Guerreirri (1st rd from Soxfor CC)

    4) Romero: Intl FA

    5) Sale: rays top pick in 2010 (17th)

    6) Colome: Int'l FA

    7) Vettleson: supp pick for G Zaun

    8) Mahtook: supp pick for Soriano

    9) Shaffer: Rays top pick in 2012 (24th)

    10) Goeddel: supp pick for CC

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Can't they just rip the roof off the stadium? Man anything to liven that place up

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can't they just rip the roof off the stadium? Man anything to liven that place up

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you EnchiladaT.    :)

    Tropicana Field is so depressing.  I felt like being inside a cage at a zoo.   LOL

    The stadium was only 1/3 full and the security guy let us sit closer to the field. 

    There was NO line to use the bathroom.  At Fenway, you have to wait in line for AT LEAST ten minutes.  But not at Tropicana Field.  LOL  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Can't they just rip the roof off the stadium? Man anything to liven that place up

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with you EnchiladaT.    :)

    Tropicana Field is so depressing.  I felt like being inside a cage at a zoo.   LOL

    The stadium was only 1/3 full and the security guy let us sit closer to the field. 

    There was NO line to use the bathroom.  At Fenway, you have to wait in line for AT LEAST ten minutes.  But not at Tropicana Field.  LOL  

    [/QUOTE]


    i have a buddy who lives just outside tampa and says you can buy tickets to devilrays games for CHEAP. also since nobody ever goes to them you can -more often than not- end up right on top of the field. Thinking about going down to florida this summer to visit some friends from HS and hitting up a sox/devilrays game while i'm down there. certainly would be less expensive than getting into fenway!

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    They could have the best stadium in the world right next door to every person who lives in the area, and they would not draw well. Almost everybody who lives there is a Yankke, Sox or other team's fan.

    I ask you this, if you moved to the TB area, would you switch from being a Sox fan to a Rays fan?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    Now that we signed Dempster as a sham of a message to the fans that we will compete in 2013, I'd have just as soon have not signed anyone and traded a combination of Ellsbury, Lester, Miller, Aceves, Morales, Breslow and Salty for Myers and maybe another one or two of their top prospects.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Now that we signed Dempster as a sham of a message to the fans that we will compete in 2013, I'd have just as soon have not signed anyone and traded a combination of Ellsbury, Lester, Miller, Aceves, Morales, Breslow and Salty for Myers and maybe another one or two of their top prospects.

    [/QUOTE]  B I N G O !!!!


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Now that we signed Dempster as a sham of a message to the fans that we will compete in 2013, I'd have just as soon have not signed anyone and traded a combination of Ellsbury, Lester, Miller, Aceves, Morales, Breslow and Salty for Myers and maybe another one or two of their top prospects.

    [/QUOTE]  B I N G O !!!!


    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, I'm quite sickened by this offseason. It started with so much hope and a pretty much blank slate.

    I almost wish we had AGon, CC, Beckett back, instead of this mess.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Now that we signed Dempster as a sham of a message to the fans that we will compete in 2013, I'd have just as soon have not signed anyone and traded a combination of Ellsbury, Lester, Miller, Aceves, Morales, Breslow and Salty for Myers and maybe another one or two of their top prospects.

    [/QUOTE]  B I N G O !!!!


    [/QUOTE]

    BILL, I'm quite sickened by this offseason. It started with so much hope and a pretty much blank slate.

    I almost wish we had AGon, CC, Beckett back, instead of this mess.

    [/QUOTE]I KNOW,   Perhaps SANTA will bring my "blockbuster"  !!!


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Big Rays Royals trade

    In response to louisthelipp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tropicana Field has all of the ambience of shopping in a BJ's Warehouse.

    [/QUOTE]

    as a poster you provide the intellect of my 3 month old retriever

     
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