Biggest Bust Evah?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    2012 Sox were a bigger bust than 2013 Yankees.  2013 Yankees, despite being ravaged by injuries, stayed in the hunt til almost the end.  They were a decent competitive club.  2012 Red Sox, yeah, not so much.  I would say the payroll difference between these two busts is more than evened out by the Sox dismal last place finish and total horror show.

             
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

     

    The 2012 Sox had no expectations given what happened in 2011


    No team has never spent $230 mil and not gotten in

    The #2 payroll in the AL is Bos w/ a 150 payroll.  That's 80 million more.  That is more than 50% more.  80 million is more than 80% of the team's total payrolls.  80 million would mean no CC, no CANO, NO RIVERA, No Granderson, No Soriano, No Kuroda - ALL OF THEM............

    No team has ever spent over $180 million (50 million less or 25% less) and not gotten into the playoffs with FIVE TEAMS or 33% of all teams making it in

     

     

     




     

     

    Now you're just repeating yourself. I believe I have my answer; you didn't.

    I understand why; you need to defend your melodramatic proclamation.




    Of course I considered it before I started this post.  If I thought the 2012 was a bigger bust I would never had started this thread.

     

    I keep repeating myself because those are the salient points to prove the case.  You keep coming back with different claims but none have surpassed the ones about the 2013 yankees.  But I too am understanding of why you are trying to rebutt the proclamation and demean it.  For years the yankee fans were able to throw sand in the Red Sox fan's faces.  But not anymore.  My advice to you is to LAY LOW.....Read some Sun Tsu and RETREAT when you got no chance!!!!!!

     



    Yes, you must have some experience in this regard, since you disappeared for months. Now you post like a panting hyena.

     

     




    You can accuse me of "hiding" but it would not be true.....I had been working 3 jobs (for the past year) and now I have some time off.....However, I most certainly did lay low after 1978 and the 1996 seasons.......because it was the smart thing to do......btw, in case you accuse me again my schedule gets real busy again in Oct so I won't be around that often at all...I'll be sure to keep you informed of all of my other upcoming committments as well.

     

     

    Now, back to the issue.  The 2013 yankees are the biggest bust in the history of the sport.......

     

     




    If that was your reason, I apologize.

     

     

    However, you do occasionally seem to post like a crazy person.  Before I read 'em, I don't know which one I'm getting.

    I DO agree, however, about 2014, and maybe beyond. NYY are likely to have their first sub 500 season(s) since the early 90s. The CORE 4 is past. And RS seem to have righted the ship.




    That's fine but yes, I was working like crazy.  When you are independent consultant you take the work when you get it and you take the vacation time when you can too.

     

     

    Yes, I have a very obssesive personality.  Show me one true Red Sox fan who does not!



    Also, I won't be surprised if Cano doesn't return. Just a hunch.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    2012 Sox were a bigger bust than 2013 Yankees.  2013 Yankees, despite being ravaged by injuries, stayed in the hunt til almost the end.  They were a decent competitive club.  2012 Red Sox, yeah, not so much.  I would say the payroll difference between these two busts is more than evened out by the Sox dismal last place finish and total horror show.

             




    Does it matter if you don't make the playoffs? 

    And I don't care about the injuries.  Yes, they made a valiant effort.  But it changes not that they had $80 million dollars more than the #2 team in payroll and still could not make the playoffs in an era where 1 in every 3 teams get in................

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    Mgt has already hinted they may lose Cano

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    Does it matter if you don't make the playoffs? 

    And I don't care about the injuries.  Yes, they made a valiant effort.  But it changes not that they had $80 million dollars more than the #2 team in payroll and still could not make the playoffs in an era where 1 in every 3 teams get in................



    The main problem with your position is that you won't find many people that agree with it.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    2012 Sox were a bigger bust than 2013 Yankees.  2013 Yankees, despite being ravaged by injuries, stayed in the hunt til almost the end.  They were a decent competitive club.  2012 Red Sox, yeah, not so much.  I would say the payroll difference between these two busts is more than evened out by the Sox dismal last place finish and total horror show.

             




    And in a sense, the 2011 Sox were an even bigger bust than the 2012 Sox.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

     

     

    2012 Sox were a bigger bust than 2013 Yankees.  2013 Yankees, despite being ravaged by injuries, stayed in the hunt til almost the end.  They were a decent competitive club.  2012 Red Sox, yeah, not so much.  I would say the payroll difference between these two busts is more than evened out by the Sox dismal last place finish and total horror show.

             

     




    And in a sense, the 2011 Sox were an even bigger bust than the 2012 Sox.

     

     

     

     



    Very true LLoyd.  But, diverting the convo a little, don't these horrendous busts make this year so much the sweeter?  Redemption is a powerful thing.  Allow me to quote the wayward soon-to-be Henry V:

    And, like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glitt'ring o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I’ll so offend to make offense a skill, Redeeming time when men think least I will.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Does it matter if you don't make the playoffs? 

    And I don't care about the injuries.  Yes, they made a valiant effort.  But it changes not that they had $80 million dollars more than the #2 team in payroll and still could not make the playoffs in an era where 1 in every 3 teams get in................

     



    The main problem with your position is that you won't find many people that agree with it.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    People won't agree with FACTS?  well, around here that would surprise me not........

    I stated nothing but facts here - show me another 230 mil $ team that has missed the playoffs
     when the #2 team was at 80 mil less and when 33% of all teams make the playoffs.....can you do that?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    2012 Sox were a bigger bust than 2013 Yankees.  2013 Yankees, despite being ravaged by injuries, stayed in the hunt til almost the end.  They were a decent competitive club.  2012 Red Sox, yeah, not so much.  I would say the payroll difference between these two busts is more than evened out by the Sox dismal last place finish and total horror show.

             




    And in a sense, the 2011 Sox were an even bigger bust than the 2012 Sox.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    collapse-wise yes

    but they did not have 80 million more than any other team nor a 230 million dollar payroll now did they?  also, did 33% of the teams make the playoffs that year?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     


    The main problem with your position is that you won't find many people that agree with it.

     



    People won't agree with FACTS?  well, around here that would surprise me not........

     

    I stated nothing but facts here - show me another 230 mil $ team that has missed the playoffs
     when the #2 team was at 80 mil less and when 33% of all teams make the playoffs.....can you do that?

    [/QUOTE]

    Well, no, you stated facts and you stated an opinion.  No one is disputing your facts.  No other team with a payroll this big has missed the playoffs.

    But it's your opinion that those facts make this the 'biggest bust evah'.

    In fact, you phrased it as a question.

    'Biggest bust' is subjective.  The term 'bust' does not have a universal and uniform definition.

    Other people have their own subjective views on this.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     


    The main problem with your position is that you won't find many people that agree with it.

     



    People won't agree with FACTS?  well, around here that would surprise me not........

     

    I stated nothing but facts here - show me another 230 mil $ team that has missed the playoffs
     when the #2 team was at 80 mil less and when 33% of all teams make the playoffs.....can you do that?

     



    Well, no, you stated facts and you stated an opinion.  No one is disputing your facts.  No other team with a payroll this big has missed the playoffs.

     

    But it's your opinion that those facts make this the 'biggest bust evah'.

    In fact, you phrased it as a question.

    'Biggest bust' is subjective.  The term 'bust' does not have a universal and uniform definition.

    Other people have their own subjective views on this.  

    [/QUOTE]


    that's correct

    it is my opinion


    and bust is subjective

    but the opinion is grounded in HARD FACTS

    i have seen some other busts presented but none bigger than the 2013 yankees

    the phillies maybe could be on the list - with that pitching staff, closer and payroll but still not as bad.......

    i look forward to seeing if anyone can come up w/ a bigger bust......

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    biggest "bust" in baseball?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    they're looking right at YOU!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Very true LLoyd.  But, diverting the convo a little, don't these horrendous busts make this year so much the sweeter?  Redemption is a powerful thing.  Allow me to quote the wayward soon-to-be Henry V:

    And, like bright metal on a sullen ground, My reformation, glitt'ring o'er my fault, Shall show more goodly and attract more eyes Than that which hath no foil to set it off. I’ll so offend to make offense a skill, Redeeming time when men think least I will.



    Ah, good  ol' Hammerin' Hank.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    Something must have cost them their season. I'm sure it had something to do with beer and chicken in the clubhouse. I just know it. I just can't find any reporters that are focused on that case. They need to get on that. Find who the culprits are, and blame individual players -- even though they only played once every five games. Doesn't matter. They're responsible for every game on the field, and how well the team plays.

    Why isn't the anyone talking about the Yankee clubhouse at all? Who tanked their season?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    "Biggest bust ever" is subjective. Each person has their own criteria for a bust. First and foremost, the expectations were not high this year for the NYY, so the term "bust" in that regard doesnt fit. If your looking at it soley from a financial standpoint without context, then yes, the NYY would be a huge "bust" this year. Actually, it was almost expected that the NYY would hit a rough patch towards the end of some of these deals along with guys like Jeter and Mo on the verge of retiring.

    I see the Blue jays give up some of their top prospects. Syndegarurd(SP) and D'Arnaund (C) alone are 2 top prospects at their respective positions. All for a 38yo flutterball pitcher. They went up almost 40M in payroll from last year and have been an after thought since early in the year.

    Henderson Alvarez, 22, Adeiny Hechavarria, 23, and blue-chip prospects Jake Marisnick, 21, and Justin Nicolino, 20 for reyes & Johnson. Also among the seven Miami-bound players were Yunel Escobar, Jeff Mathis and minor-leaguer Anthony DeSclafani. Thats quite a haul of very good prospects, and I would bet that of those 6 prospects names 3-4 of them should have solid careers. Escobar was an issue, but still a good talent.

    The LAA actually went down about 12M in payroll, but like the jays, were expected to be at the top of their division with their pitching and the addition of Hamilton to go with Pujols.

    I think considering what the Jays gave up and the production they got in return, along with the expectations at the start of the year would be my idea of biggest bust in 2013.

    The difference is I dont look just at the $$$. I take expectation, and what moves were made. Toronto, although they spent 100M+ less than NYY, added the most $$ in payroll, gave up a bunch of top 10 talent, and ended up sweeping the ALE cellar very early in the season. The expectation was winning the ALE and being a force throughout MLB. NONE of that came remotely close to happening. This is why I see Toronto as the biggest bust of 2013.

    I wouldnt call Toronto the "biggest bust evah", nor would I call the 2013 version of the NYY it either.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrgooch. Show mrgooch's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    $230 million dollar payroll

    Largest by far for any team

    Huge disparity between the #2 team in the league

    not 2, not 4, but FIVE playoff slots

    33% of the teams make the playoffs!!!!!!!

    and da bronx bombers still can't make the playoffs

    this has got to be the biggest flop ever

    welcome back to the 80's yankee fans!!!!!!!!!!!!



    Why are you even worrying about the Yankees?  As a Sox fan you should be looking forward to the playoffs and worrying about getting to the World Series.  

    This is baseball and anything can happen no matter how much money you drop in your team. The game is played between the lines not on paper.  IMO, the biggest bust this year are the Angels.  The Yankees were ravaged by injuries from the get go.  As a Yankees fan, I can live with a few loosing seasons.  Been a fan of the Yankees from the 80's and know how miserable they were then.  Its those young fans who grew up in the 90's that are just used to seeing the Yankees winning all the time that may have a hard time adjusting to the potential downward trend the team may face in the next couple of years.

    Baseball goes in cycles.  Teams will have a great few years but there will be dark times as well for these same teams.  That is why i love baseball.  The unpredictability of the game.  Im hoping the Yanks can bounce back next year but if they don't, oh well, life moves on.  With the history the Yankees have (27 World Championships) I can live with a few loosing seasons if it means developing players for the long haul.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    "Biggest bust ever" is subjective. Each person has their own criteria for a bust. First and foremost, the expectations were not high this year for the NYY, so the term "bust" in that regard doesnt fit. If your looking at it soley from a financial standpoint without context, then yes, the NYY would be a huge "bust" this year. Actually, it was almost expected that the NYY would hit a rough patch towards the end of some of these deals along with guys like Jeter and Mo on the verge of retiring.

    I see the Blue jays give up some of their top prospects. Syndegarurd(SP) and D'Arnaund (C) alone are 2 top prospects at their respective positions. All for a 38yo flutterball pitcher. They went up almost 40M in payroll from last year and have been an after thought since early in the year.

    Henderson Alvarez, 22, Adeiny Hechavarria, 23, and blue-chip prospects Jake Marisnick, 21, and Justin Nicolino, 20 for reyes & Johnson. Also among the seven Miami-bound players were Yunel Escobar, Jeff Mathis and minor-leaguer Anthony DeSclafani. Thats quite a haul of very good prospects, and I would bet that of those 6 prospects names 3-4 of them should have solid careers. Escobar was an issue, but still a good talent.

    The LAA actually went down about 12M in payroll, but like the jays, were expected to be at the top of their division with their pitching and the addition of Hamilton to go with Pujols.

    I think considering what the Jays gave up and the production they got in return, along with the expectations at the start of the year would be my idea of biggest bust in 2013.

    The difference is I dont look just at the $$$. I take expectation, and what moves were made. Toronto, although they spent 100M+ less than NYY, added the most $$ in payroll, gave up a bunch of top 10 talent, and ended up sweeping the ALE cellar very early in the season. The expectation was winning the ALE and being a force throughout MLB. NONE of that came remotely close to happening. This is why I see Toronto as the biggest bust of 2013.

    I wouldnt call Toronto the "biggest bust evah", nor would I call the 2013 version of the NYY it either.



    I posted something similar, but your post is far better. Kudos.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    This has gotta hurt:

     

              2014  2015   2016   2017

    ARod $28M, $21M, $20M, $20M (Plus $6M for 6 more HRs or $12M for 60 more)

    Saba $23M  $23M  $25M  $25M vesting option w $5M buyout)

    Teix  $22.5  $22.5  $22.5

    Wells $21M

    Sori  $18M

    Jete  $8M player option with $3M buyout.

    Suzu $6.5M

     

    Everyone of these guys are in serious decline- some for years and years.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Biggest Bust Evah?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    This has gotta hurt:

     

              2014  2015   2016   2017

    ARod $28M, $21M, $20M, $20M (Plus $6M for 6 more HRs or $12M for 60 more)

    Saba $23M  $23M  $25M  $25M vesting option w $5M buyout)

    Teix  $22.5  $22.5  $22.5

    Wells $21M

    Sori  $18M

    Jete  $8M player option with $3M buyout.

    Suzu $6.5M

     

    Everyone of these guys are in serious decline- some for years and years.

     

     

    Sox4ever



    I  don't think they're paying very much on the Wells and Sori contracts. Suzuki, although past his peak, is still worth it, the other guys, no, by a long shot.

     
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