Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]If Valentine had questioned the Wells home run it would have been ruled a double and a run would have been prevented. We would have won the game.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Um, no, there were 3 singles and a walk after that, so Wells would have scored anyway.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Um, no, there were 3 singles and a walk after that, so Wells would have scored anyway.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Maybe but I never assume that it would have worked out the same way. Different mindset of the players, different pitch selection etc.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : I never assume that it would have worked out that way,bob. different mindset of the players, different pitch selection etc.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough, J.  The post I responded to didn't even seem to consider the possibility that Wells would have scored anyway.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Fair enough, J.  The post I responded to didn't even seem to consider the possibility that Wells would have scored anyway.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Even if he had, my issue was, why wouldn't Valentine at least ask for it to be reviewed? no sense of urgency or fire from the manager. I also question sending Aceves back out there
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Just another rant  :)  100 % accurate, but a rant none the less  :)


    Hyperbole aside, bobby v. has done a very poor job as the manager of the RS.  He was the wrong choice in the wrong year.  I stipulate that he was never given a chance to rally this team.  That management & ownership cut his legs out from under him all the way back to the Avilles thing in ST.  They continued to undercut his authority up until 2 weeks ago, when they FINALLY came out unequivocally behind his "staying as manager through the end of the year."  TOO LITTLE TOO LATE!

    I further stipulate that the players get????  70 - 90 % of the blame.  Owners & mgmt. get X % of the blame.  Bobby gets 5 - 10 % of the blame.  Whatever the case, he's enough of the problem to get the axe NOW!

    Here's the case.

    a)  He started out making a fool of himself in ST with the whole bobby v. show. Looking & acting like a clown.  The dancing with the stars foolishness.  Not exactly inspiring respect & leadership.

    b)  Taking the NY radio show gig.

    c)  Making the foolish & divisive comments about Youk!!!!  What do you expect the players to do?  Rally against a teammate?  Foolish!  Granted, Pedey never should have made the public comments about "we don't do things that way here."

    d)  Every time this team looked like they were getting on a roll, little bobby v. would open his stupid mouth, & BRING UP, on purpose, things that caused MAJOR DISTRACTIONS, that happened earlier in the season.  i.e.  the Middlebrooks comments "nice game kid."  Bringing up Shop Vac demanding more playing time.   The text message from A-Gon's phone.  His comments about one of his coaches "taking a vacation," when the guy was seeing his sick kid.  Crawford's arm hurting.  There were so many other things HE PERSONALLY BROUGHT OUT IN THE OPEN that caused his team to become distracted with, that it's frankly ridiculous that some guys pretend not to get it.

    e)  His inability to DEMAND that coaches communicate with him!

    f)  His lack of knowledge about who they are facing THAT DAY!

    g)  His lack of communication with players.

    h)  HIS constant foolish post game comments.

    i)  HIS constant dazed and confused look in the dugout.

    j)  His lack of game management.

    k)  HIS CONSTANT ADDING FUEL AND IGNITION TO THE FIRE OF THIS SEASON.  HE'S BEEN THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH RESPECT TO THE NEVER ENDING SOAP OPERA OF THIS SEASON.  HE'S THE GUY WHO KEEPS LEAKING OUT THINGS THAT EMBARRASS THIS TEAM.  STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S ARSS MOUTH!!!  HE KNOWS HE'S GONE, & HE WANTS TO BURN DOWN THE ENTIRE HOUSE.  HE CLEARLY IS NOT GOING QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT.  SURE, IT MAKES FOR A FUN MEDIA SOAP OPERA, BUT IS IT HELPING THE TEAM????  NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If you still think it's 100% the players in this debacle, you simply have not been watching!  Bobby V. has certainly done his fair share to embarrass OUR TEAM!

    To the guys who are only capable of understanding 1 thing being true to the COMPLETE EXCLUSION of anything else........ Not understanding that 2, 3, 4 or more things can be true at the same time?  YOU'RE HOPELESS!  Just for the record.....  It is possible for the players to suck, FO management to suck,  LL sucking, ownership sucking,

    AND........ YES! little bobby v. sucking too! I can't even begin to imagine how somebody could not understand such a simple concept, but I guess there really are RS fans who are that simple minded?????

    HE MUST GO TODAY! 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]This BP has been overworked this year for sure. I though he should have challenged the HR and started the inning with Breslow, although he didnt do much better either...Maybe even throw Tazawa one more inning since he was about the only guy to have a clean 1.1 IP...Coulda woulda shoulda I guess...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    we had a righty who could throw hard and strike guys out, who was for the most part a pretty good reliever for the team...Matt Albers...inexplicably traded when Atchison went down for another Lefty--Breslow. Breslow s-t the bed last night in relief of I'm Not A Closer Aceves. They all did, but Albers has been a guy who was overlooked and in my opinion not valued and it's now costing the team. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]If Valentine had questioned the Wells home run it would have been ruled a double and a run would have been prevented. We would have won the game.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    concord, it's almost like it's par for the course. He doesn't challenge the umps, he's given up. And it did look like a double. It was weird how no one challenged it, even the Angels broadcasters said that it's surprising that the Sox didn't say anything.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    The team has so many problems this year that it's actually kind of hard to tell how much of the underperformance can be attributed to Valentine.  We've had an endless parade of injuries and our 'top starter', Buchholz has an ERA of 4.47.  The front office cut off the money supply because of how much was already tied up in bad contracts, so we got no help in starting pitching. 

    Just my opinion.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Hx, I'm obviously Valentine's biggest critic here (although dirtdog is trying to make up ground...:-)  ... but you're right, the Front Office did little to address the pitching. When the pen was at its best it was pretty good--Albers, Atchison, Miller, Padilla, and Aceves were lights out for a great stretch. I said they were being overworked, people contended it was normal to throw 5 or 6 pitchers in a game, I said it's too much pitches for a reliever to be in the pen, warm up, and then game pitches, then do it all again a day or 2 later. Often, BV went right back to the same reliever the day after a 2-inn performance---did that with Atchison and Albers and Mortensen, and Aceves, who may have a rubber arm, but has been atrocious as the Sox closer. When Atchison went down, Albers was traded for Breslow, once again proving that the Sox don't understand that lefty relievers just aren't that important--they have a perfect one in Andrew Miller--no need for Morales to have gone to the pen when he did, and no need for Breslow...Then Padilla got hurt after looking poor, then Aceves has just gone into the toilet. It's been a clown car with Bailey, who I'm sorry does not look like anything remotely suggesting he can be a 2013 closer. He looks more like John Dopson at the end of his career (although I liked John Dopson in the prime of his career). But if you don't spend money on pitching, you get what you get. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    To me you got some guys you can work with--Doubront, Lester, Aceves back to middle relief, Padilla still is effective if they brought him back (one wonders if he is Bartolo Colon though...throws hard at an old age...seems like he's being enhanced). Mortensen could be very good and Miller I think gets underrated. But truly you do have to replace guys like Cook, Beckett and basically find at least 3 brand new SPs, preferably veterans or guys at least with some strong MLB experience. Otherwise, we're talking 73-89 next year. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : concord, it's almost like it's par for the course. He doesn't challenge the umps, he's given up. And it did look like a double. It was weird how no one challenged it, even the Angels broadcasters said that it's surprising that the Sox didn't say anything.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    I was watching the same Angel announcers.   It seemed close to conclusive.  I may have gone channel surfing for a minute after but would that ruling have saved a run.  The Aviles call at first base was close enough to. It appeared he was safe to me. That would have given us another run as well. Why not challenge these calls is Valentine sure is he toast or is he just tired.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    He's Tired. He's Sleepy. I've said that many times too about BV. He's a joke, and he gets to finish out the year, but in my opinion, he doesn't deserve that privilege. Or is it now an extended prison sentence? Who knows, now.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Whether the home run was challenged and ruled a double is irrelevant. The tying run comes to the plate either way.  That is the run that mattered. If they tie the game , the runner on second has to score ahead of the tying run.  Basically , that run was meaningless.  The problem continues to be the starting pitching. Staked to a six run lead , Morales stinks out the joint. The failure of the starters has happened time and again this year. Now , it is obviously taking a toll on the bullpen.  That has been the story of our season.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]IMO, Bobby V. Has forgotten more about managing than Francona ever knew. Having said that I questioned his 3rd inning strategy last night. He thought Aceves was still pitching good enough to pitch to Aybar with the bases loaded. Aceves got Aybar to hit an inning ending ground out to 3rd. An error was made and for that, Bobby decided to remove Aceves? If a reliever had just came in and induced a gound out to end the inning, he would have done a good job. That's what Aceves did, he induced a groud ball out. He didn't boot it, he did his job.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Ah, Bosox, as i expected, after a year of Bobby V., we now see your true colors.  Your ridiculous blanket hatred, unspecific criticism, and complete dismissal of Tito wasn't personal.  As it it turns out, you are going arm-chair destroy any manager who comes down the pike.  i know your type well.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    All these what ifs.  We don't know what would have happened if the home run had been ruled a double.  What we do know is last night the Sox pitching staff had a bottomless capacity for giving up hits--20 in all, whether one of them was a double or a dinger--and runs. 

    Whenever the Angels needed runs, the Sox pitching staff was more than happy to give them up.  When Aceves, the closer, has a 2 run lead in the 9th and gives up 3 runs, that says it all.  When the starter has a six run lead and gives up 6 in the 3d and goes just 2.2 innings, that says it all.  When Mortensen, who still has an ERA of just 2.40, comes in to a tough situation and gives up 3 hits and a walk without getting anyone out, that says it all.  

      
     


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Even if he had, my issue was, why wouldn't Valentine at least ask for it to be reviewed? no sense of urgency or fire from the manager. I also question sending Aceves back out there
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    That's basically it.  It is the move itself that is in question, not the results.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Even if he had, my issue was, why wouldn't Valentine at least ask for it to be reviewed? no sense of urgency or fire from the manager. I also question sending Aceves back out there
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    Valentine said it was the outfielders' fault he didn't ask for a review-

    Boston manager Bobby Valentine appeared surprised when told at his postgame news conference that the home run call was wrong.

    "I didn't know that," he said, then sighed and lowered his head.

    Why didn't he ask the umpires to review the call?

    "None of the outfielders told me any different," he said.


    You can't make this stuff up.  The outfielders didn't tell him.  I guess that means Valentine wasn't watching it.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Valentine said it was the outfielders' fault he didn't ask for a review- Boston manager Bobby Valentine appeared surprised when told at his postgame news conference that the home run call was wrong. "I didn't know that," he said, then sighed and lowered his head. Why didn't he ask the umpires to review the call? "None of the outfielders told me any different," he said. You can't make this stuff up.  The outfielders didn't tell him.  I guess that means Valentine wasn't watching it.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    first I've heard the players need to make the call. Don't they have someone looking at the replays?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In the ninth inning, there is absolutely no difference between a one run lead with the bases empty , and a two run lead with a runner on second. There is no scenario in which the Angels can tie the game without the runner on second scoring anyway. I just cannot understand why all of you don't realize that the tying run is at the plate. Whether the home run call stands or not, it has no effect on pitching to the next batter.  I guess that I am not explaining it well enough.  Time to give up.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    There are way too many Valentine bashing threads here. I am the first to admit that he has not done a bang up job as manager, but to the best of my knowledge he hasn't thrown a single pitch or had a single AB this year. Its the players who stink, and its the GM who chose the players. Blame them first.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]There is no scenario in which the Angels can tie the game without the runner on second scoring anyway. I just cannot understand why all of you don't realize that the tying run is at the plate. Whether the home run call stands or not, it has no effect on pitching to the next batter.  I guess that I am not explaining it well enough.  Time to give up.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Gale who's to say it would have? If it played out they way it did yes, but you never know what the next batter would have done. I never buy it would always be exactly the same way. they're what if's, momentum, mindset, etc, but just my take on it
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    dgalehouse is exactly right.  Call the dinger a double, and the guy still scores along with two other Angels for a total of three runs.  Aceves just blew it.

    Interesting reading the game notes, because Bobby V said two things.  First, no one in the dugout or on the field thought the leadoff homer in the 9th was a double, not even whoever was looking at replays.  Second, after explaining why he sent Aceves out for the 10th (he had two lefties in the bullpen against a righty heavy lineup), he then said it was obviously a bad decision.  I don't recall Francona ever saying he made an obviously bad decision.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : first I've heard the players need to make the call. Don't they have someone looking at the replays?
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I mean, you can't spend two minutes arguing the call while someone else looked?  Or you couldn't just protest the call on the spot?  Did Valentine think we'd get penalized a timeout if we were overruled?

    If we aren't going to challenge the call in that position, when will we ever challenge a call?  What's the downside?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Gale who's to say it would have? If it played out they way it did yes, but you never know what the next batter would have done. I never buy it would always be exactly the same way. just my take on it
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]
    Why would the next batter do anything different ?   He is the tying run. That is the whole point. If he scores, the game is tied.  If he doesn't , we win.  The home run/ double has nothing to do with it. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]dgalehouse is exactly right.  Call the dinger a double, and the guy still scores along with two other Angels for a total of three runs.  Aceves just blew it. Interesting reading the game notes, because Bobby V said two things.  First, no one in the dugout or on the field thought the leadoff homer in the 9th was a double, not even whoever was looking at replays.  Second, after explaining why he sent Aceves out for the 10th (he had two lefties in the bullpen against a righty heavy lineup), he then said it was obviously a bad decision.  I don't recall Francona ever saying he made an obviously bad decision.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    He still should have been watching the ball. Thats part of his job.
     

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