Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Yeah, I mean, you can't spend two minutes arguing the call while someone else looked?  Or you couldn't just protest the call on the spot?  Did Valentine think we'd get penalized a timeout if we were overruled? If we aren't going to challenge the call in that position, when will we ever challenge a call?  What's the downside?
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    There is no downside. And there is no upside. That is my whole point. The next batter represents the tying run either way. That is the guy you have to get out. If he scores, the runner on second has to score anyway.  In an earlier inning , it would matter. In the 9th inning, it does not.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : He still should have been watching the ball. Thats part of his job.
    Posted by pumpsie-green[/QUOTE]

    He was watching the ball.  How could he not?  Everyone else on the team, including 9 guys on the field, were also watching it.  They all saw the ball pop up, not down, and therefore assumed it was a dinger.  Ellsbury and Pedroia in particular have seen a lot of iffy dingers at Fenway, and AGon and Salty have seen two seasons worth.  Everyone thought it was a dinger. 

    The telltale is almost always the trajectory of the ball after it hits, and in this case it went up. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]dgalehouse is exactly right.  Call the dinger a double, and the guy still scores along with two other Angels for a total of three runs.  Aceves just blew it. Interesting reading the game notes, because Bobby V said two things.  First, no one in the dugout or on the field thought the leadoff homer in the 9th was a double, not even whoever was looking at replays.  Second, after explaining why he sent Aceves out for the 10th (he had two lefties in the bullpen against a righty heavy lineup), he then said it was obviously a bad decision.  I don't recall Francona ever saying he made an obviously bad decision.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    It doesn't matter to me.  If it wasn't a HR, it should've been challenged.

    IRT to admitting he made a bad decision in the 10th with Aceves, there is absolutely no solace whatsoever in that admission.

    The objective is to find omeone that doen't make the mistake, not the guy that apologizes most frequently for making mistakes.  When you're looking at people you work with, I'd rather have the guy that makes few mistakes, even if he doesn't admit to them, than the guy that makes a lot of mistakes, but takes the blame.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Why would the next batter do anything different ?   He is the tying run. That is the whole point. If he scores, the game is tied.  If he doesn't , we win.  The home run/ double has nothing to do with it. 
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

     If there was a five minute delay for the challange/review, maybe the momentum wouldn't be there, different frame of mind from the pitcher, time to discuss pitch sequence. IDK, I just never have bought it would always play the same way.  Regardless, my point is isnt it worth a try or a managers job? why just sit there, asleep at the switch?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB :  If there was a five minute delay for the challange/review, maybe the momentum wouldn't be there, different frame of mind from the pitcher, time to discuss pitch sequence. IDK I just never have bought it would always play the same way.  Regardless, my point is isnt it worth a try? why just sit back and say nothing?
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    If anything , a five minute delay would have been bad for the pitcher. I am not trying to defend Valentine here. Just pointing out basic baseball .  It is the same reason why a team with a two run lead in the 9th , will ignore a baserunner and focus strictly on the batter. The batter is the only run that matters. There was no way the Angels could have tied the game without the runner on second scoring ahead of the tying run. It comes down to this : In the 9th inning, a two run lead with a man on second is the same as a one run lead with the bases empty. Challenging the home run call would have accomplished nothing.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Yeah, I mean, you can't spend two minutes arguing the call while someone else looked?  Or you couldn't just protest the call on the spot?  Did Valentine think we'd get penalized a timeout if we were overruled? If we aren't going to challenge the call in that position, when will we ever challenge a call?  What's the downside?
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    BV was trying to fish for the red flag stuffed in his pant leg, but wasn't as adept as BB at it....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    If this happens, then that happens. I love the 20-20 hindsight boys. It's like well it's not like the wild pitch by Stanley meant anything because Buckner couldn't make the next play on the grounder by Wilson...Jesus, admit to the fact that events like a HR--AN AUTOMATIC RUN--can change a course of events. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    If Roberts doesn't steal, it's still 1st and 3rd after Mueller's single...nope, if Mueller hits it in the same spot, it's a double play because Jeter is playing him up the middle.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Who cares about this one meaningless event in an awful season.

    Bottom line.... 

    bobby v. has failed as manager of this team, with or without calling for a replay.

    The thing I don't get is why those defending bobby v. continue to do so in the face of irrefutable evidence that he has been the wrong guy for the job.  Why don't they get that admitting this takes NOTHING away from the argument that the players are still responsible for their horrible play.  THIS team would have s ucked with or without bobby!!!!  BUT!  No question about it, bobby HAS added to the circus & soap opera!  He has done a lousy job as a MANAGER, with respect to almost every aspect of that job!

    Is that so difficult to understand??? 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]If Roberts doesn't steal, it's still 1st and 3rd after Mueller's single...nope, if Mueller hits it in the same spot, it's a double play because Jeter is playing him up the middle.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    In your campaign against Valentine , you are forgetting logic. Those situations are completely different.  Can you explain to me why a two run lead with a man on second is different from a one run lead with the bases empty in the 9th inning ?  The batter is all that counts. The baserunner is basically ignored. The infield does not change position. The pitch selection does not change. God knows , there are plenty of things to complain about. This is not one of them. Whether the hit is ruled a home run or a double, has absolutely nothing to do with what followed.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Just because the team s ucks, does not mean that bobby can't s uck too!

    HELLO?!  :)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Oh!  LL has s ucked the last 3 years!

    Ownership has s ucked the last 3 years!

    They ALL s uck!

    Can we all agree to that???
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]dgalehouse is exactly right.  Call the dinger a double, and the guy still scores along with two other Angels for a total of three runs.  Aceves just blew it. Interesting reading the game notes, because Bobby V said two things.  First, no one in the dugout or on the field thought the leadoff homer in the 9th was a double, not even whoever was looking at replays.  Second, after explaining why he sent Aceves out for the 10th (he had two lefties in the bullpen against a righty heavy lineup), he then said it was obviously a bad decision.  I don't recall Francona ever saying he made an obviously bad decision.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Thanks. I can't , for the life of me , see why this is so hard for a baseball fan to understand. People are so eager to rip Valentine that they forget simple baseball logic.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Tito needed to go!

    Theo has s crewed us for the next ____ years!

    What are these die hard defenders of little bobby v not getting?  Are they all relatives of his?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB : Thanks. I can't , for the life of me , see why this is so hard for a baseball fan to understand. People are so eager to rip Valentine that they forget simple baseball logic.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    wait!  I get it now....  Bobby v's lack of a request for a replay didn't matter.  Ok!  I agree.  Therefore, he has done just fine this year, & has not added to the circus & soap opera of a season.

    I get it now!  My bad!

    Just kidding dgale.  You are correct, but it has nothing to do with the season.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In the ninth inning, there is absolutely no difference between a one run lead with the bases empty , and a two run lead with a runner on second. There is no scenario in which the Angels can tie the game without the runner on second scoring anyway.

    I'll bet you a dollar there is a scenario.

    <waiting for you to accept>

    Suppose he walks the next guy.  Now the guy after him hits a slow roller down the line.  Now, instead of it being bases loaded, the 3B has a chance to beat the guy to 3rd.  Or if it is hit just a bit harder, he has a chance to step on 3rd and complete the throw to 1st.

    I'm not saying these are game-changing advantages, but BB is a game made up of half-percentage point advantages.

    There is always an advantage to having a guy on 2nd instead of in the dugout.  That guy is always a potential out.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Let me answer the few that said it meant nothing. A reliever pitches differently or any pitcher pitches differently with a man on base or base empty. For one, you can windup instead of pitch out of the stretch. For two, if you have a runner on 2nd, you are even more careful with your location. When a guy hits a solo jack, the inclination is that the bases are still empty and I can still go after the next hitter. You work carefully, far more knowing the guy is on 2nd. You also have a sense of relief that the hit wasn't a HR. It's not like you are saying, it is different and the mentality changes due to a HR against a double. Also, your momentum changes if you have the manager backing you up and helping you out. If the HR gets overruled, you are on a confidence high. It's so different, but how do you explain that to "logical" Spocks on this board.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Question to the defenders of little bobby v.

    Has little bobby done a "GOOD" job as manager of the Red Sox?  Are there areas where he has done a poor job?  Should he be our manager next year?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    bring him back, by all means. He'll have Niemann at pitching coach (How's that working out since the McClure firing?) and by then, Tuck and Bogar and the other cancers will be gone. I mean that's going to automatically put another 15 wins on the record alone. BV is one of the great managers of our time, dirt, don't you know that by now? It's everyone's fault BUT HIS.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Leaders don't mean anything, that's why Tito's 2 WS titles DON'T COUNT. That's why if you are basically one play from the postseason, that doesn't count either. But if you are 10 games under .500 with the 2012 Sox, that doesn't count either because managerial leaders don't mean a thing according to gale,max, and others. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    For all the collapse last year, if the Rays don't make a miraculous comeback, the Sox would have backed into a wildcard spot, but it didn't happen so therefore he's the worst manager of alltime and deserved to get fired. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    Oh thank god for Beckett and Lester pitching poorly and the injuries, or that's what BV is saying to himself as far as his job security. His job security is such that if the players do poorly, he's off the hook...BUT IF THE PLAYERS DID PLAY WELL, HE'S A GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    BV IS THE ONLY PERSON,PLACE OR THING ON THE RED SOX THAT IS LITERALLY WIN-WIN...EVERYTHING ELSE IS LOSS-LOSS, LIKE THE TEAM'S RECORD.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    I am not going to get into a debate about the whole season. It has been a mess, by any yardstick. There is plenty of blame to go around. You could write a book about it.  All I am saying here is that the home run call had no effect whatsoever on last night's loss. That's all. I'm finished. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB

    In Response to Re: Bob Valentine - the worst in-game manager in MLB:
    [QUOTE]For all the collapse last year, if the Rays don't make a miraculous comeback, the Sox would have backed into a wildcard spot, but it didn't happen so therefore he's the worst manager of alltime and deserved to get fired. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]


    Look, I loved Tito.  He did a great job managing this team for a long time.

    Still, he had to go!  He lost control of the team, & he let a very negative clubhouse take over.  I have no problem with letting Tito go.  It may have been a rash decision, but I don't question letting him go.

    So, little bobby v. backers......  answer the direct questions.  Has he done a GOOD job.  Are there things he failed at?  Did he add to the circus / soap opera?  Is he the best guy for the job next year?
     

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