BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    this is the problem with V. he should have walked out the door and kept his mouth shut and let it be. to bad mouth the players now is a joke.

    you saw his comment that Ortiz quit on the team? 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    After how Tito took the ghigh road, and what the team did to him...why would anyone try to take the high road again?

    I hated the hiring at the time, and every day after.

    But now? The Sox are getting exactly what they deserve. Poor them, having to sleep in the bed they made.

    I hope to see the 3 stooges as much as at the Farrell conference. That being...NEVER! I don't want to see them, hear from them, or read any press releases penned by them, or someone in their name. I don't want to read or hear about any quotes they give to a reporter. If I hear anything, I hope it's "...over in Europe dealing with the mess they created on the other side of the pond...".

    Good business men and money makers, TERRIBLE sports people. Simply atrocious.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    this is the problem with V. he should have walked out the door and kept his mouth shut and let it be. to bad mouth the players now is a joke.

    you saw his comment that Ortiz quit on the team? 



    i deliberately FOCUSED on the aviles issue. that set up the rest of the other stuff. had they backed him up there, the other stuff takes care of itself. he would have had their respect if not their likeabilty factor. i dont agree with v with youk or with the ortiz comment.




    So, if the Sox had just backed him up in SP, BV wouldn't have gone on to say any of the other stupids things that he said?

    Please...  BV can't help himself!


    He wouldn't have publicly questioned Youk's desire to play?

    He wouldn't have LIED about his exchange with Middlebrooks??

    He would've have been pathetically unprepared for games?

    Keep dreaming...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:

    say what you want about bobby v, the man had no shot.. whoever signed off on him is guity of gross negligence. v should file a civil suit. y bring in an old school guy to manage a bunch of spoiled, entitled whiny brats.. everything he describes here, i'm in full agreement with. management should have come to his side and made it clear there was a new sheriff in time as opposed to undercutting his legs from the get-go and neutering his natural instincts:

    “The thing with Aviles, it was absolutely mind-boggling. … We were going to have a discussion about it while we were running a drill,” Valentine said. “I just said, ‘Guys, on this matter, this is not a democracy. We’re doing it the way you do it in baseball.’ I did it in a loud voice. Guys came into my office and said, ‘Please, don’t yell at Mike like that.’ … I’m still incredulous.

    “Was I surprised that guys came in in that situation [after he critiqued Aviles' work]? Yes. I think … that’s unique to that group of guys. I don’t think it’s indigenous to all of baseball. At least I pray it’s not,” Valentine continued. “It’s not functional with the tail wagging the dog, and taking a vote every time you have to decide how to do things. A leader needs to lead. He leads by forming the pack, patting down the pack and having other people follow. You can’t have the guy at the back of the line coming up and deciding which direction you’re going to go in.”

    love v's "unique to those group of guys" line for its true! sawx have a totally unique approach (for better or worse) to player development and chemistry reinforcement. great that they went inside to a guy familiar with that nonsense but.... visquel complained about farrell allowing the young inmates to run the asylum. no discipline, no consequences, repeated the same errors and mistakes over and over with full impunity. this could end up very badly! i would hire bobby v in aheartbeat for my team, just with maximal BACKING! let v be as v is.. you want guys coddled, ferrell is YOUR guy! at least they are now consistent and all on the same "good job, good effort," more high end headphone pandering nonsense. hope i'm wrong and we thrive with farrell but i have a bad feeling that this could end veryyyy badly! have yet to hear one guy who actually covered the blue jays in toronto give a favorable analysis of the man as a manager except to say "they never quit" and that he looks the part (kind of like the incompetent romney looking the part of a president)...

     



    yes, a player who is a veteran and was counted on for acting like one. He was already pizzed off because Farrell wanted him off the roster so he basically tried to get other players to turn on him, then calls out his manager in the media. Also, where was Visquel when Escobar wrote that stuff on his eye black? He speaks Spanish so maybe as the veteran leader in that clubhouse he should have said something. Why didnt he?

    You take a disgruntled players word for it if you want...I dont believe him...

    I cant believe you actually want BV as a manager after everything hes said and done...BV has been caught in a number of flat out lies and you still believe him? Sorry, I believe NOTHING he says. He is completely out of touch with what it takes to be a manager...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    this is the problem with V. he should have walked out the door and kept his mouth shut and let it be. to bad mouth the players now is a joke.

    you saw his comment that Ortiz quit on the team? 



    i deliberately FOCUSED on the aviles issue. that set up the rest of the other stuff. had they backed him up there, the other stuff takes care of itself. he would have had their respect if not their likeabilty factor. i dont agree with v with youk or with the ortiz comment.




    So, if the Sox had just backed him up in SP, BV wouldn't have gone on to say any of the other stupids things that he said?

    Please...  BV can't help himself!


    He wouldn't have publicly questioned Youk's desire to play?

    He wouldn't have LIED about his exchange with Middlebrooks??

    He would've have been pathetically unprepared for games?

    Keep dreaming...



    When the Aviles issue first surfaced, didn't BV say it never happened?? He also admitted to the Middlebrooks incident, saying he was kidding when he said, nice inning kid, Now he's saying it never happened?

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    The Contrarian loved BV because he loves soap opera drama.

    Baseball is secondary...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to J-BAY's comment:


    When the Aviles issue first surfaced, didn't BV say it never happened?? He also admitted to the Middlebrooks incident, saying he was kidding when he said, nice inning kid, now he's saying it never happened??

     



    Exactly...

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    Please...  BV can't help himself!

    He wouldn't have publicly questioned Youk's desire to play?

    He wouldn't have LIED about his exchange with Middlebrooks??

    He would've have been pathetically unprepared for games?

    Keep dreaming...

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm with you on this one. Certainly there were mistakes made by the FO but Bobby V is a very loose cannon and one way or the other his management would have completely fallen apart on its own by Bobby V's own doing. A very knowledgeable but very flawed human being. He can't keep his mouth shut and this by itself most likely turned the players against him. The team was dysfunctional in ST and it only got worse as the year went on. 

    Hetch

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

     

    i deliberately FOCUSED on the aviles issue. that set up the rest of the other stuff. had they backed him up there, the other stuff takes care of itself. he would have had their respect if not their likeabilty factor. i dont agree with v with youk or with the ortiz comment.

    [/QUOTE]

    CC< 

    I couldn't disagree more. Even if the FO had backed Bobby V on this one with his mouth and other flaws it was only a matter of time before it all fell apart. I don't say a manager needs to be a "Players Manager" like Tito but Bobby V just doesn't know enough the no blather openly to the press and in Boston that's not wise. Again it was only a matter of time before he went to the press, opened his over sized mouth and lost the faith of his players. Issues in the club house need to stay in the club house and Bobby V doesn't seem to have the common sense to realize this.

    Hetch 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

    Please...  BV can't help himself!

    He wouldn't have publicly questioned Youk's desire to play?

    He wouldn't have LIED about his exchange with Middlebrooks??

    He would've have been pathetically unprepared for games?

    Keep dreaming...



    I'm with you on this one. Certainly there were mistakes made by the FO but Bobby V is a very loose cannon and one way or the other his management would have completely fallen apart on its own by Bobby V's own doing. A very knowledgeable but very flawed human being. He can't keep his mouth shut and this by itself most likely turned the players against him. The team was dysfunctional in ST and it only got worse as the year went on. 

    Hetch

     



    Absolutely.

    It's all on the FO for hiring BV in the first place.

    I don't think anyone realized just how bad he would be.

 
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    The BBLC, the billion dollar big labor club, runs the loser Red Sox brand. Nothiing has changed. New player leadership won't be acquired by the incompetent Cherry. 



    Shut up.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    After how Tito took the ghigh road, and what the team did to him...why would anyone try to take the high road again?

    I hated the hiring at the time, and every day after.

    But now? The Sox are getting exactly what they deserve. Poor them, having to sleep in the bed they made.

    I hope to see the 3 stooges as much as at the Farrell conference. That being...NEVER! I don't want to see them, hear from them, or read any press releases penned by them, or someone in their name. I don't want to read or hear about any quotes they give to a reporter. If I hear anything, I hope it's "...over in Europe dealing with the mess they created on the other side of the pond...".

    Good business men and money makers, TERRIBLE sports people. Simply atrocious.




    I don't much care about what the Sox management gets as Valentine exits. I care that the fans have had a gut full of 2012. Valentine should have left it alone, exiting gracefully, rather than rubbing OUR NOSES in the sh!t that was this past baseball season. It should all have been tossed in the dumpster so we can move on.

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    Right.  Bobby is doing his whiny best to reframe his time in boston.  But, seriously, shut up already Bobby.  Not flattering.  Now, Ortiz gave up.  Everyone apparently made deceitful back-handed maneuvers that caused the mess of a season ... everyone but straight-shooting Bobby V.  C'mon Bobby.  let it go.  Move on.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Right.  Bobby is doing his whiny best to reframe his time in boston.  But, seriously, shut up already Bobby.  Not flattering.  Now, Ortiz gave up.  Everyone apparently made deceitful back-handed maneuvers that caused the mess of a season ... everyone but straight-shooting Bobby V.  C'mon Bobby.  let it go.  Move on.




    Passive-aggressive BV right to the end.

    "It's all my fault, but here's a list of people that screwed me over."

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    ehh..BV was never allowed to be manager...Ben wanted Farrell last year but couldn't get him so he grudgingly let BV come in and gave him no support.  probably why BV wasn't allowed to name his own coaching staff..they knew all along the deal for Farrell would eventually happen and then such changes could be granted to Farrell.  The Jays had a conveniently horrible season and Farrell begged again to be allowed to go to Boston as soon as BV was fired.  Jays had no real choice - he wasn't happy there and so wasn't effective.  There were issues with Jay players and Farrell almost as much as BV and Boston players.  Doesn't matter if you like BV or not, he was treated like crap from day one.  The whole saga in retrospect seems a bit scripted and conspiratorial and more than anything else, very unprofessional on behalf of RS FO.  All just my opinion, of course.  If Farrell hadn't said he tried to get Toronto to let RS talk to him last year, then again begged this year, it wouldn't have been so glaringly ripe for closer inspection in hindsight.  Makes me no less a devout RS fan who hopes Farrell succeeds here..but have lost respect for the FO for the way they played it.  Like him or not, BV deserved a fighting chance and he didn't get it here.  You just don't bring in a veteran MLB manager and then tie his hands from doing his job like they did BV.  

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    After how Tito took the ghigh road, and what the team did to him...why would anyone try to take the high road again?

    I hated the hiring at the time, and every day after.

    But now? The Sox are getting exactly what they deserve. Poor them, having to sleep in the bed they made.

    I hope to see the 3 stooges as much as at the Farrell conference. That being...NEVER! I don't want to see them, hear from them, or read any press releases penned by them, or someone in their name. I don't want to read or hear about any quotes they give to a reporter. If I hear anything, I hope it's "...over in Europe dealing with the mess they created on the other side of the pond...".

    Good business men and money makers, TERRIBLE sports people. Simply atrocious.




    I don't much care about what the Sox management gets as Valentine exits. I care that the fans have had a gut full of 2012. Valentine should have left it alone, exiting gracefully, rather than rubbing OUR NOSES in the sh!t that was this past baseball season. It should all have been tossed in the dumpster so we can move on.




    There was a lot of blame to go around concerning the destruction of what was once a great team.  It started with FrancoMa created a play pen and nursery where the players were so pampered that they got this feeling of entitlement---and then eventually turned on their placid manager.  In came Valentine and with his big mouth and lack of tact you knew things could go astray, and did when the big babies on the team started complaining about how he did his job. The Aviles thing was ten red flags, let alone one.  Valentine goes out and is blasting the organization, much to their chagrin, but didnt Prune Face and Co. do the same to FrancoMa when he was displatched?  As for Henry himself, he hasn't cared two turds for the team since he got remarried in 2008, and now we have two goons running the team, Lucchino and Cherington that know little about the nuts and bolts of baseball.  Larry the Lizard knows nothing about the baseball ops part of the game and yet acts like a know it all, always meddling and making things worse.  Cherington is a computer geek who is risk averse and takes a millenium to make a decision.  I can't remember a more dysfunctional baseball team that comes to mind.

    John Farrell has his work cut out for him and while I am not that big a fan of his, I do wish him the best of luck because he has run into a whirlwind of incompetence at Fenway Park.  He needs to be g iven a free hand to hire his own coaches, give a laundry list to the worthless GM to get him the staples he needs to revive the team, Lucchino must be kept out of the baseball part o the loop and do the marketing and promotions which are his only forte, and Prune Face has to stop chasing his wife around the bed and start taking an interest in his team again.

    2007 was my favorite Red Sox team but it seems now to have been in another century, so far have we tumbled the past five years.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    as for saying Ortiz didn't want to play...I can believe and understand that.  Why should Ortiz risk further injury to something as painful and chronic as an achilles just so he can take a few more at bats in a season that is already a total loss.  He has his already limited future of playing another 2 years to protect.  We need him healthy for 2013, not further injured in 2012.  That was no-brainer for Ortiz and a smart decision for both himself and the team.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    Cherington did not want Valentine and he proceeded to undermine his ability to do the job. BV never had support from his GM, and Ben did everything he could to make sure Valentine failed, regardless of the impact to the players and the fans.

    The problem still exists as long as Lucchino and Cherington have the same boss. One of them needs to go in order for the Sox to be successful.

    As far as saying Ortiz quit on the team, perhaps he shouldn't have said it but it's true. From David's perspective, I can see how he wouldn't want to risk another injury playing for a team that was going nowhere after trading Gonzalez, especially in a contract year.

    Funny how Farrell can blame Toronto's GM for his failure as manager but it was not Ben's fault for Valentine's.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Cherington did not want Valentine and he proceeded to undermine his ability to do the job. BV never had support from his GM, and Ben did everything he could to make sure Valentine failed, regardless of the impact to the players and the fans.

    The problem still exists as long as Lucchino and Cherington have the same boss. One of them needs to go in order for the Sox to be successful.

    As far as saying Ortiz quit on the team, perhaps he shouldn't have said it but it's true. From David's perspective, I can see how he wouldn't want to risk another injury playing for a team that was going nowhere after trading Gonzalez, especially in a contract year.

    Funny how Farrell can blame Toronto's GM for his failure as manager but it was not Ben's fault for Valentine's.



    Hey, can you hit me with a cut/paste or link to where Farrell blamed Toronto's GM?  I hadn't seen that and that surprises me coming from Farrell.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    Cherington did not want Valentine and he proceeded to undermine his ability to do the job. BV never had support from his GM, and Ben did everything he could to make sure Valentine failed, regardless of the impact to the players and the fans.

    What, exactly did Ben C do to make sure Valentine failed. And why would a first year GM want his team to fail in the first place.

    Whether he wanted BV for the job or not, it would be the height of stupidity to torpedo a team you're reponsible for.

    The problem still exists as long as Lucchino and Cherington have the same boss. One of them needs to go in order for the Sox to be successful.

    Lucchino doesn't have to leave. He just has to let the Baseball Ops people do their jobs.

     

    As far as saying Ortiz quit on the team, perhaps he shouldn't have said it but it's true. From David's perspective, I can see how he wouldn't want to risk another injury playing for a team that was going nowhere after trading Gonzalez, especially in a contract year.

    Yup, that's brilliant move. Quit playing in a contract year. That'll really boost your value, won't it.

    Funny how Farrell can blame Toronto's GM for his failure as manager but it was not Ben's fault for Valentine's.

    When did Farrell blame the GM?

    Do you think the Toronto GM provided Farrell with a playoff-worthy team and Farrell just blew it?

     

    I can see why you like BV. You both enjoy spinning a good yarn...

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: BOBBY V confirms he was RAILROADED from AVILES issue?

    "say what you want about bobby v,"

    ok, I will: he's one of the worst managers I have ever seen, and he was a godawful terrible hire. He did a horrible job and he's a crazy sumbeetch. He's like that wacky uncle you don't invite to your family reunions cuz he's gonna tie one on. 

    Look, there are all kinds of problems with this franchise that go much higher than Bobby V, and yes, to some extent he has been scapegoated, but he was horrible. 

    "New player leadership won't be acquired by the incompetent Cherry. "

    Umm - Cherry is Lucchino's puppet so it's never clear why you don't have the stones to go after Lucchino. 

    I guess it's possible you don't know how to analyze power structures.

     
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