Bobby V--so far, so good

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : I guess I have to admire your loyalty to Francona.....I don't understand it..
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
    To be fair, even you have to admit Bobby V, has not had the same success as Francona.
     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]If Valentine had the 2004 or 2007 pitching staffs on this team right now, he'd probably be doing just about as good as Francona.
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    Two awfully subjective words in that sentence.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]If Valentine had the 2004 or 2007 pitching staffs on this team right now, he'd probably be doing just about as good as Francona.
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]
    I have to disagree with the "about as good" portion of your post. I believe that if Bobby V. took over the Sox in 2004, they would have had more success than qualifying for 2 Worls series. I believe, given the talent they had, that they underachieved for 6 of the 8 years that Francona was at the helm. I know most fans were thrilled with the 2004 WS Championship. I wanted a dynasty, and I believe the talent was here to be a dynasty. In the last 7 years under Francona, they made it to one World Series. I believe they should have been in more.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : To be fair, even you have to admit Bobby V, has not had the same success as Francona.
    Posted by BosoxJoe5[/QUOTE]
    Francona didn't have any success before he inherited a championship team waiting to happen.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]Pitching is what won the Sox those two championships (and relatively weak NL opponents in 2004 & 2007 didn't hurt -- let's be honest here).
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, let's be honest...the 2004 Cardinals won 105 games.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

      AL Teams with decent shot at winning the World Series

      Rangers, Angels, Tigers, Rays. Yankees and Red Sox.

      I am not ready to write off any of these teams. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : I have to disagree with the "about as good" portion of your post. I believe that if Bobby V. took over the Sox in 2004, they would have had more success than qualifying for 2 Worls series. I believe, given the talent they had, that they underachieved for 6 of the 8 years that Francona was at the helm. I know most fans were thrilled with the 2004 WS Championship. I wanted a dynasty, and I believe the talent was here to be a dynasty. In the last 7 years under Francona, they made it to one World Series. I believe they should have been in more.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
    Hey BOSOX ... long time no chat. Hope you've been well.

    You often bring up this "dynasty" notion when in fact it's not applicable. The lineups in 2004 and '07 were radically different with an entirely different infield and two different outfielders. (Ramirez, Ortiz and Tek were the only constants). Of the entire pitching staff, only Schilling and Wakefield were on both rosters.

    Compare that to the Yankees' run of three in a row from 1998-2000. The infield was exactly the same. Two-thirds of the outfield was the same. Three-fifths of the starting rotation was the same. The closer and three other top relievers were the same.

    To have any realistic expectations of a dynasty in professional sports, you have to have continuity. It would be difficult to name one that didn't.

    To be clear, the Sox were a colossal disappointment last year and I understand why Francona had to go. But to dismiss his contributions to this franchise as being lucky or the ever-popular "they won in spite of him" is absurd.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : Yeah, let's be honest...the 2004 Cardinals won 105 games.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]
    Facts, schacts...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : Hey BOSOX ... long time no chat. Hope you've been well. You often bring up this "dynasty" notion when in fact it's not applicable. The lineups in 2004 and '07 were radically different with an entirely different infield and two different outfielders. (Ramirez, Ortiz and Tek were the only constants). Of the entire pitching staff, only Schilling and Wakefield were on both rosters. Compare that to the Yankees' run of three in a row from 1998-2000. The infield was exactly the same. Two-thirds of the outfield was the same. Three-fifths of the starting rotation was the same. The closer and three other top relievers were the same. To have any realistic expectations of a dynasty, you have to have continuity. It would be difficult to name one that didn't. To be clear, the Sox were a colossal disappointment last year and I understand why Francona had to go. But to dismiss his contributions to this franchise as being lucky or the ever-popular "they won in spite of him" is absurd.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Good points, Lloyd.  And as I have tried to point out to BOSOX before, the top 3 starters on the 2004 team were Schilling, Pedro and D-Lowe.  The top 3 on the 2005 team were Wells, Clement and Wakefield.  Talk about a steep dropoff right there.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    Gang, some or maybe all of you have misunderstood my OP. When I said he is having a great year, I meant, via the Tom Hanks quote from A League of Tneir Own, that so far it has been a hard year. He aint out of the woods yet, but I think he has done well under the circumstances. I liked Francona, but letting him go was the right thing. I also don't believe in giving a manager too much blame or credit because so much depends on hitting and pitching, which are supremely individual acts. the hitting has been surprisingly good, for which Bobby V gets only a little credit. The starting pitching has been lousy, for which he only gets a little blame. Same rule applies to Ben C whose deals have been circumscribed by what Theo left him, a lot of money going to guys on the DL. These guys could fall on their faces, but right now I am hopeful. 2 game against Seattle, then a tough road trip at Tampa, Philly, and Baltimore, 8 games.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : YESand you seem to forget the previous 7 yrs. One year does not make a bad manager or style of management. Just watch the dugout and watch the manner in which players react you can get a sense of the human reactions. BTW when you criticize and attack some one for an observation you look like a jerk
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Technically, Tito had one bad month in 8 years.

    If you want to look at the bright side, BV has already gotten his one bad month out of the way.  So if he is as good as Tito, he should have another 47 good months in a row.

    Seriously though, while he was the worst manager in history for about a month, BV is not making nearly as many mistakes now.  Seems like for about 6-7 games now, it seems like regular BB.  The sooner we bury the drama, the sooner the emphasis is on the players, the better off everyone will be.
     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good : YESand you seem to forget the previous 7 yrs. One year does not make a bad manager or style of management. Just watch the dugout and watch the manner in which players react you can get a sense of the human reactions. BTW when you criticize and attack some one for an observation you look like a jerk
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    The media was critical of Valentine on the Youk comment but all I hear now on WEEI is what a "wuss" BV is for not calling out players.

    Don't forget Crawford took more than a month to answer the phone this past winter, Beckett was all peaved on the ESPN commentary last year by BV, and Pedroia with his "maybe in Japan" remark.

    It isn't as if this team was all that warm to begin with.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good :
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE
    When you purport to know from snapshots of a dugout what's going on in people's hearts and minds, you come off as a wannabe swami. An observation about a play on the field or a lineup or a tactical move is legitimate even if it's not persuasive. But reading meanings into the look in people's eyes or the way they shake hands from a distance and with no continuity or sense of other interactions off camera assumes powers of analysis that few people, if any, possess. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    will read the thread shortly, but ill lead with this in response to providing d lowe with a replacement championship ring:

    that was a class act. now maybe they can try to be a class front office and stop cutting their manager, valentine's legs out from under him on disciplining players. i mean cmon, first the players run over a laissez-faire manager. then you hire a manager who wont take crap. then when he pulls the reigns in you tell him to leave the players alone. i mean cmon. get out of the manager's way and let him clean up your mess.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    In Response to Re: Bobby V--so far, so good:
    [QUOTE]The media was critical of Valentine on the Youk comment but all I hear now on WEEI is what a "wuss" BV is for not calling out players. Don't forget Crawford took more than a month to answer the phone this past winter, Beckett was all peaved on the ESPN commentary last year by BV, and Pedroia with his "maybe in Japan" remark. It isn't as if this team was all that warm to begin with.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    that and at the same time when the front office isnt behind you (and think they know whats best- letting the player dictate).
     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bobby V--so far, so good

    A franchise that waited 86 years to win a championship, and a lot of their fans still trying to discredit the manager, Francona, and the GM, Epstein, of the team that finally won one.  Weird. 
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share