Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    Once in awhile I actually read a post written all in caps. The reason I do so is to assure myself of its stupidity, and so I won't read anything by that idiot again.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]I have one question MAYBE MORE for GEO in regards to the school analogy. As an account executive how many schools have you been intimately involved with? I agree that part of the job of a principal is what you say.  However you also stated the following is defense of an earlier post...  I NEVER SAID....  ANYTHING about a principal telling a teacher how to teach! Never said it! Then you said in continuing defense of that post .....  If you did teach, then you should know full well that a principals job is to absolutely observe teachers and help give them guidance and training in making sure they are using best practices.  They often need to give them feedback on their individual teaching styles, and let them know what is going well & what needs improvement. SO IN DEFENSE OF YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT WHICH YOU SAID YOU DID NOT SAY YOU USED BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUEMENT. EITHER YOU SAID IT OR DID NOT SAY IT
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Sorry Jim, that was me...  dirtdog :)

    I was a restaurant manager for 5 years, an account executive / Sales Manager for 9 years.  Now...  I have been teaching for almost 15 years.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]I have one question MAYBE MORE for GEO in regards to the school analogy. As an account executive how many schools have you been intimately involved with? I agree that part of the job of a principal is what you say.  However you also stated the following is defense of an earlier post...  I NEVER SAID....  ANYTHING about a principal telling a teacher how to teach! Never said it! Then you said in continuing defense of that post .....  If you did teach, then you should know full well that a principals job is to absolutely observe teachers and help give them guidance and training in making sure they are using best practices.  They often need to give them feedback on their individual teaching styles, and let them know what is going well & what needs improvement. SO IN DEFENSE OF YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT WHICH YOU SAID YOU DID NOT SAY YOU USED BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUEMENT. EITHER YOU SAID IT OR DID NOT SAY IT
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    OY!  Jimmy....  Hang with me man.

    Sure it's somewhat of a symantic dif, but a dif. with a distinction.  If you know teaching.  Here's what I said.

    2/2012 9:17 PM EDT
    Posts: 5686
    First: 4/9/2009
    Last: 8/2/2012
    as a teacher i can say redsoxdirtdog is cluessless about teaching....ive been teaching close to 25 years, i havent ever seen a principal tell anyone how to teach....thats not their job....they are there to run the school, not relay specific instruction to individual teachers...and if you do disobey the principal in those matters pertaining to their management of the school, you get disciplined and then fired after a warning...

    the idea of the principal telling me how to teaCH the Industrial Age or jacksonian Democracy or else is humorous...that woulk be like a hosiptal coordinator telling the doctors how to treat someone in the emergency room from their office

    As always - 100% correct!

    JOSH BECKETT CHUNK FACTOR -

    MY OFF DAYS ARE MY OFF DAYS....


    He says I said they tell teachers HOW TO TEACH. He is correct! That's not what they do. They DO observe & tell them what's working & what isn't. All teachers have thing they do well, & some not so well.


    It is a real difference with what I said in my original analogy. 

    Clearly, the analogy does not work so well for those who have not worked in a school setting, or are grouch teachers!    :)

    Most likely a teacher who was totally out of control, & a poor teacher to boot.  :)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]Once in awhile I actually read a post written all in caps. The reason I do so is to assure myself of its stupidity, and so I won't read anything by that idiot again.
    Posted by bosoxmal[/QUOTE]

    Dude :)  We already covered the cap thing.  My guess is you have trouble following anything in writing????

    p.s.  I've never read a thing of import from you??
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    There are a few different ways to view the manager situation. Bobby needs to grow a pair and stand up to the GM and the players. Either manage or get fired trying. Why the F did they hire BV if they werent going to let him manage? Why the F did BV take the job if they werent going to let him manage? Why do people keep using the phrase, "make a run"? This team ain't going to do anything ths year. They aren't going to make a trade to get better this season. They aren't going to make a trade to make the team better next year. It's almost as if upper management has no clue. They are as inept as they were great in 2003/04. Compare the GM, Lucchino, and J Henry from 2004 to 2012 and it's as if the team were sold to the 3 stooges. The Red Sox organization of today bares no resemblance to the professionalism displayed in 2004.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]as a teacher i can say redsoxdirtdog is cluessless about teaching....ive been teaching close to 25 years, i havent ever seen a principal tell anyone how to teach....thats not their job....they are there to run the school, not relay specific instruction to individual teachers...and if you do disobey the principal in those matters pertaining to their management of the school, you get disciplined and then fired after a warning... the idea of the principal telling me how to teaCH the Industrial Age or jacksonian Democracy or else is humorous...that woulk be like a hosiptal coordinator telling the doctors how to treat someone in the emergency room from their office
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I hate to tell you friend, but it is NOT unusual for hospital coordinators to dictate quality of care...ranging from type of patient/amount of patients seen, to type of medication allowed to use.

    It's sometimes scary....if patients only knew.....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks


    It's amazing how personally some guys take it when you say something they don't happen to agree with.

    Too bad!  Some guys are just looking for a fight.  i.e.  Geo  :(

    Lighten up Francis  :)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]There are a few different ways to view the manager situation. Bobby needs to grow a pair and stand up to the GM and the players. Either manage or get fired trying. Why the F did they hire BV if they werent going to let him manage? Why the F did BV take the job if they werent going to let him manage? Why do people keep using the phrase, "make a run"? This team ain't going to do anything ths year. They aren't going to make a trade to get better this season. They aren't going to make a trade to make the team better next year. It's almost as if upper management has no clue. They are as inept as they were great in 2003/04. Compare the GM, Lucchino, and J Henry from 2004 to 2012 and it's as if the team were sold to the 3 stooges. The Red Sox organization of today bares no resemblance to the professionalism displayed in 2004.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    ALL GOOD POINTS!

    While I don't agree with every word, I strangely don't feel the need to verbally beat you about the head & metaphorical neck!  :)
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks


    This was a very simple OP.

    Bobby V. supposedly makes a snide comment, "nice inning," to Middlebrooks after Middly boots a couple of balls during said inning.

    Somebody goes to Mgmt. / ownership complaining about bobby's comment.

    Bobby V. is said to have been "taken to the woodshed" for said smart remark.

    Bobby V. is being given ZERO opportunity to take control, & lead these guys toward a run.  It seems he has been set up for failure, & undercut at every turn.

    I personally think bobby v. was never cut out for the job anyway, but he has been submarined none the less.  NEVER HAD A CHANCE!

    The inmates certainly seem to still be running the asylum.

    This situation is totally out of control, & heads should roll!!!

    I think Luchino should go first.  Lackey second.  Beckett probably can't be dealt, except for taking a huge loss & subsidizing his contract.  Bobby V. must go!!!  He has ZERO support from players, coaches, the front office, or ownership.

    Most of this is obvious through simple observation.  Some is my personal opinion.

    WHAT IS SO TOUGH TO UNDERSTAND?  Why does this anger some people so?
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]Written like a whiny junior high melodramatic out to lunch teenager. Delete this drivel.
    Posted by TrotterNixon[/QUOTE]

    and the soft one makes an appearance......

    Notice he doen't say what he disagrees with.  Very little to say if it's not about his favorite topic.  The big H word.  Now Softy definitely knows about that. 

    Wink wink, nudge nudge.  Say no more!  :)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    In Response to Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks:
    [QUOTE]I will preface this by saying that I have very little respect for Bobby V. as a manager.  His time has past, and I view him as a major league JOKE!  To me, he comes off as a joke every time he opens his mouth, and it seems clear that the players have zero respect for the guy.  Granted, ownership & management have completely undermined the guy, but he does a fine job of marginalizing himself on a regular basis!  Ultimately, OWNERSHIP & MANAGEMENT ARE COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS DEBACLE, but Bobby V. bears a good deal of responsibility for not having what it takes to be an effective leader........ *********************************************** ^^^  If you don't know the story???  little bobby v. apparently made a flippant comment to Will Middlebrooks as he came back to the dugout after making 2 or 3 errors in one inning.  Bobby V. said something to the effect of, "NICE INNING KID&(."  After which, somebody immediately ran to management and ownership, tattling on bobby v????    ARE YOU F'n KIDDING ME????? * Clearly NOTHING has changed since last September!  THE INMATES ARE ARE STILL RUNNING THE ASYLUM!!!! **  It is beyond belief and absurdity that Will Middlebrook, or somebody watching the interaction on the bench, would run to ownership and management, complaining about Bobby V. making a flippant comment about Middlebrooks making 2 errors in one inning.   ***  While the efficacy of dealing with Middlebrooks penchant for making errors in that flippant way by little bobby v. can easily be criticized, IT IS BEYOND BELIEF THAT ANY PLAYER WOULD STILL FEEL EMPOWERED TO TAKE SUCH A JUVENILE STEP IN DEALING WITH THIS SITUATION!!!!!  UN F'n BELIEVABLE!!!! ****  If the story is true, and little bobby v. was taken to the woodshed for making a critical, albeit "flippant" remark to Middlebrooks, THIS MANAGEMENT AND OWNERSHIP HAVE COMPLETELY LOST CONTROL OF THIS TEAM!!!!  BOBBY V. DOES NOT HAVE A PRAYER OF MANAGING EFFECTIVELY WITH HIS LEGS AND TORSO CUT OUT FROM UNDER HIM!!!!! *****  The only way this situation makes any sense in bringing this team together for a run down the stretch, IS IF THEY ARE PLANNING TO CAN LITTLE BOBBY V. VERY SOON!!!  TODAY!!!!  THIS SITUATION IS COMPLETELY UNTENABLE OTHERWISE!!!!!  NO MANAGER!  NO MATTER HOW BAD HIS STYLE MAY BE!!!  CAN EFFECTIVELY MANAGE WITHOUT SOME SEMBLANCE OF AUTHORITY!!!!!   NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I said at the beginning, while I can't stand little bobby v., and always have thought he was absolutely the wrong guy for this job, THE OWNERS & UPPER MANAGEMENT ARE COMPLETELY TO BLAME FOR THIS TOTAL DYSFUNCTION!!!!! !!!   THIS TEAM DOES NOT HAVE A PRAYER OF COMING TOGETHER WITH THIS PROFOUND ORGANIZATIONAL DYSFUNCTION!!!!! @   LUCHINO MUST GO!!!!! &    PERHAPS BEN C. MUST GO TOO!!!!!! %    THIS ORGANIZATION IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
    Posted by redsoxdirtdog[/QUOTE]
    i believe someone started this conversation earlier in the day!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    Now I understand the OP and redsoxdirtdog's premise, and I disagree vehemently. He is making a mountain out of a molehill. The comparison to a principal is way off base.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill2. Show aussiewill2's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    Two things are not going to happen the remainder of this season 1, Bobby Valentine , will not be fired, also he will not quit. 2. No manager with half a brain, would take over this team , at  this point in time.

    Obviously you don't like Mr.V.  Yes it's his fault that they lead the majors in players on the DL. Also it's bobby's fault That lester and beckett are pitching like they belong in AAA. I'm sure it's Bobby's fault that sweeney punched the wall and broke his hand and that Carl Crawford is thee biggest free agent bust in MLB history. Yes Bobby should be tarred and feathered for sure. Then there's Lackey, Dice K, Jenks all BV's fault, gosh I don't know how he sleeps at night.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Bobby V. taken to the woodshed by Management & Ownership for making a comment to a player: Part II, Middlebrooks

    Chiming in on this probably way to late for anyone to read it....

    It's fairly obvious what's happened.

    Last September the team went into free-fall.  Why?  We don't know.  Maybe it was lack of pitching, maybe the team was 'tired', maybe it was the manager, who knows?  Most likely it was some of each and some of something I didn't list.  None of us were a part of that clubhouse so we don't have that knowledge.  What we DO know is that it happened.

    It was about that time that the clubhouse fractioned itself off into two camps - those who supported Tito and those who didn't.  Those who didn't pretty much mailed it in from there on in while those who supported him tried to overcome the malaise that had overtaken the clubhouse.  And Tito knew it.  He even went so far as to say that he had lost control of the clubhouse and it was time for a change.

    Fast forward to the 2012 season now: 
    Most of the same players are still there but with BV as a manager.  Now they're looking at BV's style of managing and comparing it with Tito's style of managing and wishing they had Tito back.  Even some of  those who abandoned Tito at the time now realize that they made a mistake.  (All but a certain RH pitcher whom I don't think ever admitted that he made a mistake). 

    So now they have a manager that the majority of the team doesn't like or respect, and anyone with any workplace experience knows what THAT's going to be like!  A poor leader makes for a poor team. 

    There are two possible solutions for this. 
    The first is to clean house of everyone who either did or does still support Tito.  That ain't gonna happen.  It involves blowing the team up and there's too much talent, money and potential for the FO to do that.
    The second is to get rid of BV - which has GOT to happen.  It's got to happen not because he's a poor manager and not because he doesn't have the "people skills" to get the most from his players, but for one very basic reason.  HE'S NOT TITO.

    This team needs to get one degree of separation between Tito and the current manager and things will be fine again.

    As far as the players are concerned it all comes down to one basic sports axiom.  "Don't be the guy who replaces the legend.  Be the guy who replaces the guy who replaces the legend". 



     
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