Bobby V will not be fired

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to wallyisdead's comment:

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    He'll win about 73 games this year.  That's 17 games less than Tito won last year with basically the same crew.

    The last time our record was this bad, our attendance was 811,172.

    Considering that was when we were considered a small market team, Valentine is quite likely the worst manager in our history.

     



    So the most injuries in 25 years are his fault, and the #1 & #2 starters have won fewer than 15 games between them is also his fault. If Beckett and Lester had 17 and 15 wins, an 18 game swing. They'd be fighting Baltimore for the wild card spot. The worst manager suddenly becomes the savior. There goes your 17 game nonsense.  Last year going into, what Terry liked to call crunch time, the Sox were being talked about as the best team in baseball. After almost 8 years of overcoming Terry's nonsense, the players succumbed to his inabilities and folded. What should have been considered a dynasty, got to one WS in his last 7 years and failed to make the playoffs the last 2 years. In a battle between Francona and Valentine and their respective abilities to manage a baseball game, you can consider Francona unarmed.

     




     

    and Valentine is?

    Go back to chasing cars.

     



    Bosox1941 has a borderline psychotic hatred for Tito. That's all he ever posts about.  Maybe Tito ran over his puppy, snubbed his autograph request or jilted his daughter before the prom, whatever it is, it can't possibly have anything to do with baseball.  If it did, he would have a lot more unhealthy hatred toward every other Sox manager during his lifetime.   

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to mryazz's comment:

    check out 'cona's managerial record with the weak phillies. whether bobby  v is fired or not, i'm still glad 'cona is history.

     




    What does that have to do with anything?!?!  Check out Tony LaRussa, Jim Leyland and Joe Torre's early managerial records.  It was time for Tito to go, but his record in Philly on some bad teams had nothing to do with it. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    He'll win about 73 games this year.  That's 17 games less than Tito won last year with basically the same crew.

    The last time our record was this bad, our attendance was 811,172.

    Considering that was when we were considered a small market team, Valentine is quite likely the worst manager in our history.

     



    So the most injuries in 25 years are his fault, and the #1 & #2 starters have won fewer than 15 games between them is also his fault. If Beckett and Lester had 17 and 15 wins, an 18 game swing. They'd be fighting Baltimore for the wild card spot. The worst manager suddenly becomes the savior. There goes your 17 game nonsense.  Last year going into, what Terry liked to call crunch time, the Sox were being talked about as the best team in baseball. After almost 8 years of overcoming Terry's nonsense, the players succumbed to his inabilities and folded. What should have been considered a dynasty, got to one WS in his last 7 years and failed to make the playoffs the last 2 years. In a battle between Francona and Valentine and their respective abilities to manage a baseball game, you can consider Francona unarmed.

     


    BV is disliked almost by all. IMO he still knows more about the game than Tito. I sure hope LAA will fire Mike S, but I am afraid that this is only a deam

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    His DH was hurt

     



    +2 for Papi.

     



    Jon Lester 2011 ERA: 3.47; Jon Lester 2012 ERA: 4.96

    Josh Beckett 2011 ERA: 2.89; Josh Beckett 2012 (Boston) ERA: 5.23

    How many games you wanna give me for that? I have told you over and over again that this season's debacle is not primarily Valentine's fault, it is the fault of the players he was given to work with. You really think that because Valentine and not Francona was managing this year these two losers pitched worse? I could almost buy the "off year" theory, but not that they got hammered all year long because of the manager.  

     

     



    Sure, everyone on the team except maybe Salty was worse this year than last year.

    Doesn't that have anything to do with the manager?  Isn't it the managers job to get them ready to play?  To motivate them?  Do you think showing up at the ballpark every day, and having reporters asking them to comment on what inane mutterings the manager had has anything to do with them playing worse?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    Breidey concluded before he was even hired that Valentine was the worst manager around. Therefore, now that the team has failed this year, he feels obliged to warp the facts to suit his theory. 

     

    I appreciate you admitting I was right.  Now that the Titanic is settling to the bottom, maybe the rest will see.

    I'm waiting for someone to tell me what a great manager BV is because we are finally getting a top-10 pick.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    His DH was hurt

     



    +2 for Papi.

     



    Jon Lester 2011 ERA: 3.47; Jon Lester 2012 ERA: 4.96

    Josh Beckett 2011 ERA: 2.89; Josh Beckett 2012 (Boston) ERA: 5.23

    How many games you wanna give me for that? I have told you over and over again that this season's debacle is not primarily Valentine's fault, it is the fault of the players he was given to work with. You really think that because Valentine and not Francona was managing this year these two losers pitched worse? I could almost buy the "off year" theory, but not that they got hammered all year long because of the manager.  

     

     



    Sure, everyone on the team except maybe Salty was worse this year than last year.

    Doesn't that have anything to do with the manager?  Isn't it the managers job to get them ready to play?  To motivate them?  Do you think showing up at the ballpark every day, and having reporters asking them to comment on what inane mutterings the manager had has anything to do with them playing worse?

     



    Exactly.  Like it's just one big coincidence that everyone had their worst year ever.  That's the whole point.  the team did not play well under Valentine.  

    It's like if you have a manager at Subway and no one is doing their jobs and everyone is slacking off. Does the owner of the Subway say to the manager "It isn't your fault that no one is working hard or doing the job correctly"?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    His DH was hurt

     



    +2 for Papi.

     



    Jon Lester 2011 ERA: 3.47; Jon Lester 2012 ERA: 4.96

    Josh Beckett 2011 ERA: 2.89; Josh Beckett 2012 (Boston) ERA: 5.23

    How many games you wanna give me for that? I have told you over and over again that this season's debacle is not primarily Valentine's fault, it is the fault of the players he was given to work with. You really think that because Valentine and not Francona was managing this year these two losers pitched worse? I could almost buy the "off year" theory, but not that they got hammered all year long because of the manager.  

     

     



    Sure, everyone on the team except maybe Salty was worse this year than last year.

    Doesn't that have anything to do with the manager?  Isn't it the managers job to get them ready to play?  To motivate them?  Do you think showing up at the ballpark every day, and having reporters asking them to comment on what inane mutterings the manager had has anything to do with them playing worse?

     



    To quote a great baseball tactician, This isn't kindergarten. I don't buy the motivation junk. These are professionals whose income depends on performance. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

     

    His DH was hurt

     



    +2 for Papi.

     



    Jon Lester 2011 ERA: 3.47; Jon Lester 2012 ERA: 4.96

    Josh Beckett 2011 ERA: 2.89; Josh Beckett 2012 (Boston) ERA: 5.23

    How many games you wanna give me for that? I have told you over and over again that this season's debacle is not primarily Valentine's fault, it is the fault of the players he was given to work with. You really think that because Valentine and not Francona was managing this year these two losers pitched worse? I could almost buy the "off year" theory, but not that they got hammered all year long because of the manager.  

     

     



    Sure, everyone on the team except maybe Salty was worse this year than last year.

    Doesn't that have anything to do with the manager?  Isn't it the managers job to get them ready to play?  To motivate them?  Do you think showing up at the ballpark every day, and having reporters asking them to comment on what inane mutterings the manager had has anything to do with them playing worse?

     



    To quote a great baseball tactician, This isn't kindergarten. I don't buy the motivation junk. These are professionals whose income depends on performance. 

     




    Right.  which is why no one needs to take you seriously.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    To quote a great baseball tactician, This isn't kindergarten. I don't buy the motivation junk. These are professionals whose income depends on performance. 


    Since when is Bobby Valentine a great tactician? And anyway a great baseball manager doesn't have to be a general. He (or she) has to manage their baseball team. That means dealing with the personalities that make up the ballclub. Bobby hasn't shown any evidence all year of being able to do that.One thing I'll say for Bobby though is that he does seem to have a good eye for talent. That's why I feel that a job with LL would be Bobby's best fit with the organization. I know you staked your opinion on Bobby a long time ago, and that you're almost as stubborn as me, but at some point you have to face facts and facts aren't funny. :) The good fact is that the Red Sox might have the hottest managerial candidate in baseball already in their system.

     
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    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    I mean why would a manager need to motivate his players?

    Wow.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    Since when is Bobby Valentine a great tactician? 

    It's the little things.

    Like posting an all-righty lineup against a righty pitcher, only to be told later that the pitcher was lefty like BV originally thought.

    Or pitching to Fielder, with a .921 OPS, instead of walking him, creating a force at home, and pitching to Young, with a .721 OPS, and a 5/1 K/W ratio this year.

    Like Bard walking two guys and allowing a single against TB, to load the bases.  Then, who is warming up in the BP (Fangraphs made fun of this)?  Albers and Thomas.  Afterwards, Longoria said he was surprised that Bard was left in to pitch to him.

    Like having Aviles bunt against Blackburn, even though Aviles has an OPS of 1.495 against him.

    As in, issuing an intentional walk to about the worst hitter in BB to load the bases, a guy cut about a week later because even his team knew he was finished.  A guy with a worse OPS than Iglesias.  His excuse?  He saw Matsui get a lot of big hits in his career.

     

    And the list goes on.  He is the worst tactical manager in BB.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    Sure, everyone on the team except maybe Salty was worse this year than last year.

    Doesn't that have anything to do with the manager? Isn't it the managers job to get them ready to play? To motivate them? Do you think showing up at the ballpark every day, and having reporters asking them to comment on what inane mutterings the manager had has anything to do with them playing worse?

    I don't recall seeing Valentine on the mound starting a single game this year. If these losers named Lester and Beckett need a motivational speech by their manager then they are even more unprofessional than I guessed. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt: I think they are professionals but they are just not that talented. It is their responsibility to get motivated and give their team 110% every game. Valentine is responsible for all of his tactical mistakes and for his outrageous PR mistakes, but not for where Lester and Beckett locate their fastballs.

    So how many games are you giving me for their performances?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    To quote a great baseball tactician, This isn't kindergarten. I don't buy the motivation junk. These are professionals whose income depends on performance

    This is absolutely true. These players would be the first to tell anyone that they don't need 162 pep talks from the manager. They compete for the fans and for their teamates, as well as for their contracts.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Since when is Bobby Valentine a great tactician? 

    It's the little things.

    Like posting an all-righty lineup against a righty pitcher, only to be told later that the pitcher was lefty like BV originally thought.

    Or pitching to Fielder, with a .921 OPS, instead of walking him, creating a force at home, and pitching to Young, with a .721 OPS, and a 5/1 K/W ratio this year.

    Like Bard walking two guys and allowing a single against TB, to load the bases.  Then, who is warming up in the BP (Fangraphs made fun of this)?  Albers and Thomas.  Afterwards, Longoria said he was surprised that Bard was left in to pitch to him.

    Like having Aviles bunt against Blackburn, even though Aviles has an OPS of 1.495 against him.

    As in, issuing an intentional walk to about the worst hitter in BB to load the bases, a guy cut about a week later because even his team knew he was finished.  A guy with a worse OPS than Iglesias.  His excuse?  He saw Matsui get a lot of big hits in his career.

     

    And the list goes on.  He is the worst tactical manager in BB.

     



    Sounds familiar. So it looks like you're saying that it has taken him almost a year to match what Francona averaged weekly in the way of futility. Sounds about right to me.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Since when is Bobby Valentine a great tactician? 

    It's the little things.

    Like posting an all-righty lineup against a righty pitcher, only to be told later that the pitcher was lefty like BV originally thought.

    Or pitching to Fielder, with a .921 OPS, instead of walking him, creating a force at home, and pitching to Young, with a .721 OPS, and a 5/1 K/W ratio this year.

    Like Bard walking two guys and allowing a single against TB, to load the bases.  Then, who is warming up in the BP (Fangraphs made fun of this)?  Albers and Thomas.  Afterwards, Longoria said he was surprised that Bard was left in to pitch to him.

    Like having Aviles bunt against Blackburn, even though Aviles has an OPS of 1.495 against him.

    As in, issuing an intentional walk to about the worst hitter in BB to load the bases, a guy cut about a week later because even his team knew he was finished.  A guy with a worse OPS than Iglesias.  His excuse?  He saw Matsui get a lot of big hits in his career.

     

    And the list goes on.  He is the worst tactical manager in BB.

     



    Sounds familiar. So it looks like you're saying that it has taken him almost a year to match what Francona averaged weekly in the way of futility. Sounds about right to me.

     



    If your point is that Terry Francona isn't Casey Stengel or Connie Mack, you're probably right. But if your point is that Bobby Valentine is you're dead wrong.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    To quote a great baseball tactician, This isn't kindergarten. I don't buy the motivation junk. These are professionals whose income depends on performance

    This is absolutely true. These players would be the first to tell anyone that they don't need 162 pep talks from the manager. They compete for the fans and for their teamates, as well as for their contracts.

     



    So what role does the manager play, iyo?

    BV has poisoned the clubhouse, has had issues with at least 12 players, ranging from minor to major, has no tactical ability, annoys other teams, doesn't talk to any of his coaches, etc.

     

    Except for banning beer in the clubhouse, what he he brought to the Red Sox?  You know, except for a really high draft pick?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    Valentine was an incredibly dumb hire by Lucchino.  Valentine is gone, Lucchino is not.  We're still in trouble. 

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Valentine was an incredibly dumb hire by Lucchino.  Valentine is gone, Lucchino is not.  We're still in trouble. 

     




    That is exactly what I am concerned about too. If Lucchino and Cherington remain then incompetence will also remain in our FO. So no matter what kind of draft pick we get it will be squandered on a player with insufficient talent to make an impact when our team can be relevant again in 3 years or so.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    Arguing with people that think Bobby V has done a good job is like arguing with people that say the holocaust never happened.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:

     

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Valentine was fired after the season. However the blame is only about five percent his for the terrible season. When he is gone, what will the forum concentrate on next? Hopefully we will discuss more positive issues.

     



    I'd like to think we'll hire someone without the daily drama.  Someone that doesn't need to buddy up to the press.  This started with BV whining to the press about not being to contact CC in the off-season and seems almost an unrelenting barrage of issues.

    Think about it-if you added up all the headlines from all the managers in BB (Guillen with Castro, Girardi's argument with Sherman, etc) would the other 29 managers have created as much drama between them as our drama queen?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Bobby V will not be fired

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Valentine was fired after the season. However the blame is only about five percent his for the terrible season. When he is gone, what will the forum concentrate on next? Hopefully we will discuss more positive issues.

     



    What will we have next?  Oh, there's plenty to talk about when your team is one of the wealthiest in baseball and only won 70 games.

     

     
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