Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    I'm going to say that in my 55+ years of watching the Red Sox I have never seen a Red Sox manager and GM make all the right moves at all the right times like BV and BC have the past two weeks.
    The players have to perform but BV has to make the on field moves and BC the off field moves.The OF today of Agon, Nava and Posednik seriously who would have thought with that OF they would be winning. Making the defensive move (Lin) that saved the game. As we sit here and say that our minor league is not deep and that BC signed a bunch of low risk high reward guys and many times throw him under the bus for it. Posednik has worked, Nava has worked, Schoppach has worked, Albers has worked, Atchinson has worked, Miller has worked, Padilla, Hill, Byrd, have all worked despite many reservations on this forum.
    I made a prediction that they may come in 3rd if they are lucky. Based upon what I have seen I believe this group is a damn good to use a term that I don't really like is a "DIRT DOG TEAM". They seem to believe in themselves and seem to be coming together.
    Cespite many talking trash about who does and who doesn't have the right mind set to be on this team I say BS.
    This team has shown me a lot over the past two to three weeks. If it keeps up they will go a long way.

    Lastly as much as I liked Terry Francona I just don't see him making many of the moves Bobby V has.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to say that in my 55+ years of watching the Red Sox I have never seen a Red Sox manager and GM make all the right moves at all the right times like BV and BC have the past two weeks. The players have to perform but BV has to make the on field moves and BC the off field moves.The OF today of Agon, Nava and Posednik seriously who would have thought with that OF they would be winning. Making the defensive move (Lin) that saved the game. As we sit here and say that our minor league is not deep and that BC signed a bunch of low risk high reward guys and many times throw him under the bus for it. Posednik has worked, Nava has worked, Schoppach has worked, Albers has worked, Atchinson has worked, Miller has worked, Padilla, Hill, Byrd, have all worked despite many reservations on this forum. I made a prediction that they may come in 3rd if they are lucky. Based upon what I have seen I believe this group is a damn good to use a term that I don't really like is a "DIRT DOG TEAM". They seem to believe in themselves and seem to be coming together. Cespite many talking trash about who does and who doesn't have the right mind set to be on this team I say BS. This team has shown me a lot over the past two to three weeks. If it keeps up they will go a long way. Lastly as much as I liked Terry Francona I just don't see him making many of the moves Bobby V has.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    I couldn't have said it any better.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    I'm starting to like this team as much as the 2010 team, and that team had more heart than many teams I've cheered for.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to say that in my 55+ years of watching the Red Sox I have never seen a Red Sox manager and GM make all the right moves at all the right times like BV and BC have the past two weeks. The players have to perform but BV has to make the on field moves and BC the off field moves.The OF today of Agon, Nava and Posednik seriously who would have thought with that OF they would be winning. Making the defensive move (Lin) that saved the game. As we sit here and say that our minor league is not deep and that BC signed a bunch of low risk high reward guys and many times throw him under the bus for it. Posednik has worked, Nava has worked, Schoppach has worked, Albers has worked, Atchinson has worked, Miller has worked, Padilla, Hill, Byrd, have all worked despite many reservations on this forum. I made a prediction that they may come in 3rd if they are lucky. Based upon what I have seen I believe this group is a damn good to use a term that I don't really like is a "DIRT DOG TEAM". They seem to believe in themselves and seem to be coming together. Cespite many talking trash about who does and who doesn't have the right mind set to be on this team I say BS. This team has shown me a lot over the past two to three weeks. If it keeps up they will go a long way. Lastly as much as I liked Terry Francona I just don't see him making many of the moves Bobby V has.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree with the last part. Remember, Francona put Youk in LF for some games when they were short OF'ers. He put Gonzalez in RF last year. And in those case, he would put better defensive players in at the end.

    Francona was more creative and active with moving players and lineups around when necessary than he's given credit for.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    I'll say two things, mostly in agreement-

    1-BC has focused on the minutiea.  I like Theo, but sometimes I thought he spent too much time looking for grand slams.

    2-It was another good game for BV.  The move with Lin was exactly right.  It'll take me another month to forget about his first month worth of bad moves, but he's been okay for about a month now,
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'll say two things, mostly in agreement- 1-BC has focused on the minutiea.  I like Theo, but sometimes I thought he spent too much time looking for grand slams. 2-It was another good game for BV.  The move with Lin was exactly right.  It'll take me another month to forget about his first month worth of bad moves, but he's been okay for about a month now,
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    I agree but to a point. Remember, it was Theo who brought in Aviles and Aceves, for example. I think Theo did a very good job over the years in those kind of moves.

    High-priced free agents are always a risk. It's why small-market GMs sometimes look better because they don't have the money to sign those type of players.

    Theo's problem is Crawford. Say what you will about other, but they pale in comparision. For instance, Jenks was a waste but it still was just two years. And Lackey, after surgery, could still come close to being worth his contract -- maybe not all of it, but if he comes back and win around 15 games with a sub-4.00 ERA -- all a possibility -- I think we can live with the deal.

    But Crawford, even if he reaches his career-highs, is still nowhere close to being worth that contract. That contract overshadows all the other good moves Theo made.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    Few thoughts:

    I don't know if Francona would have gone as deep as often into the BP as Valentine has recently or used guys quite as much as Bobby has. But it is hard to say what level of urgency Francona would have had after 2011 and the start this team got off to. That does not take away from the fact that Valentine has done what he has done BTW. The BP may well be dead by September 1 at this pace but if the RS had dropped 3 of the games on this road trip where BV went to a lot of pitchers and used guys so much, it may well not have mattered.  

    Aside from that the rest of the juggling is very similar to what Francona would have done IMO and did do in past situations where the RS had injury issues. 

    When it fails the GM gets lots of heat when it comes to BP, so I guess you have to give Cherington lots of credit for this BP, which I must confess I thought was horrid coming out of ST and the first week of the season.

    Roy is right that Theo made lots of similar "small" moves to picking up guys like Byrd and Posednick. And Roy is right now Crawford is really the super stinker in the "Epstein Punch Bowl". One can debate the Lackey signing considering the RS had their share of concern about his elbow and he ended up with basically two lost seasons (last year and this year) because of the elbow. You could say it was a bit of a gamble...but getting past those two deals, most of the other stuff is part of getting involved in signing FAs, the signings almost never look great and injury and rapid decline can make them look bad. NO GM and no team is immune if the play the big payroll game very long at all.

    Theo frankly was pretty good at the smaller moves for position players. If the BP holds up (which given how much they are having to be used is a question) Cherington certainly has an early edge in assembling a series of guys that are lower cost and having it gel.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    Nice post. I think BV is an intelligent guy and is learning the strengths and weaknesses of this club daily. I agree with Joe that he made some ingame blunders early on, but I attribute that mostly to being rusty, (out of baseball for 10yrs), and not knowing his players well. I also think Cherington deserves credit for decent moves while on a shoestring budget. I like what I'm seeing from him. For me, it's still all about 2013 though I'm all for fighting with all our strength for this season. Just stay under budget, and make moves to prepare us for a big push next year. Maybe we can make the 2nd wildcard spot and get lucky this year, but I doubt it quite honestly. Evaluating talent has been shockingly poor during the last few yrs of the Theo administration. Things look like they're improving nicely. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    Remember, it was Theo who brought in Aviles and Aceves, for example. I think Theo did a very good job over the years in those kind of moves.

    ...and Morales and Salty.

    I like BC's "small moves" so far too:

    Trusting in Aviles to allow us to get Mortensen for Scoot and free up enough money to sign Padilla and Shoppach.

    Trading Reddick (yeah, I know Reddick is having another nice streak now) for Sweeney and Bailey (wait and see on this one, he's a good pitcher).

    Signing Ross, Shoppach, Padilla and not giving up on Nava...

    I also think after a few years, we will look back on the Lowrie for Melancon deal and smile.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'll say two things, mostly in agreement- 1-BC has focused on the minutiea.  I like Theo, but sometimes I thought he spent too much time looking for grand slams. 2-It was another good game for BV.  The move with Lin was exactly right.  It'll take me another month to forget about his first month worth of bad moves, but he's been okay for about a month now,
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    Ah, Joe, you're going soft; but BV would be grateful to know that you're giving him a second chance. Who knows, maybe the club can stay at or over .500 without you and FanGraphs calling in lineups and moves to make sure BV knows what to do with all those "all-stars" on the roster you harp on. You mean the ones who pulled an El Floppo Grande last September. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In the end you are what your record says you are and today we're a .500 team.
     
    While I agree that both Cherington and Valentine have demostrated the ability to do thier jobs. I never doubted they couldn't and comparing them too or trying to argue that either of them are better than Francona and/or Espstein is a bit premature...Both of whom (Francona & Epstein) are wearing about 50 grand in jewlery. So while I too am a fan of both Valentine and Cherington, not sure that either of them have, as of yet, accomplished anything noteworthy. That's not to suggest they won't and trust me I'll be the first guy to jump on the bus when they do lead this team to a WS and once they win one we can start comparing thier resumes to thier predesessors...

    Fact of the matter is that our recent success is due to our starting pitching staff finally begining to string together some quality starts. That and our bullpen has been among the best in the game over the last month, along with some timely hitting and making the routine plays look routine...we're begining to see how good this team can be with a little help from the guys that stand 60' 6" from the opposing teams hitters.

    Make no mistake about it, the bottom line is this team will go as far as our starting pitchers take us with Lester & Beckett leading the way...If we pitch we'll stay in the hunt, if we stay in the hunt, once we begin to get back the guys from the DL? Our offense will then be even more of a force and this team could concievably play at or above .650 ball in the second half and come September 1st find ourselves in the think of it.

    In the meantime I trust that Bobby Valentine has forgotten more about the game of baseball in his lifetime, then I've ever learned. So if the players play to the backs of thier baseball cards hard. Cherington and he work together with the support of ownership in the interest of fielding the best team everyday. With the resources at thier disposal it's not a matter of if, but rather when they'll find themselves in a postion to put thier respective resumes in the same stack as Francona's and Epstein's...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to say that in my 55+ years of watching the Red Sox I have never seen a Red Sox manager and GM make all the right moves at all the right times like BV and BC have the past two weeks. The players have to perform but BV has to make the on field moves and BC the off field moves.The OF today of Agon, Nava and Posednik seriously who would have thought with that OF they would be winning. Making the defensive move (Lin) that saved the game. As we sit here and say that our minor league is not deep and that BC signed a bunch of low risk high reward guys and many times throw him under the bus for it. Posednik has worked, Nava has worked, Schoppach has worked, Albers has worked, Atchinson has worked, Miller has worked, Padilla, Hill, Byrd, have all worked despite many reservations on this forum. I made a prediction that they may come in 3rd if they are lucky. Based upon what I have seen I believe this group is a damn good to use a term that I don't really like is a "DIRT DOG TEAM". They seem to believe in themselves and seem to be coming together. Cespite many talking trash about who does and who doesn't have the right mind set to be on this team I say BS. This team has shown me a lot over the past two to three weeks. If it keeps up they will go a long way. Lastly as much as I liked Terry Francona I just don't see him making many of the moves Bobby V has.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]
    Lets not get too carried away too much! team is still 22-22 and last place. Injuries have killed us, and some of the guys that have contributed are surprising. Cherington has gotten some needed bodies for the OF, but nothing more than spare parts [Pods, Byrd] The thing that surprises me most is how these role players seem to perform so well for Bob V. He did the same thing w/ Mets getting to WS w/ the likes of Agbayani, McEwing, Timo Perez, Melvin Mora, and Daryl Hamilton all playing significant roles. I'll give him credit for that.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to say that in my 55+ years of watching the Red Sox I have never seen a Red Sox manager and GM make all the right moves at all the right times like BV and BC have the past two weeks. The players have to perform but BV has to make the on field moves and BC the off field moves.The OF today of Agon, Nava and Posednik seriously who would have thought with that OF they would be winning. Making the defensive move (Lin) that saved the game. As we sit here and say that our minor league is not deep and that BC signed a bunch of low risk high reward guys and many times throw him under the bus for it. Posednik has worked, Nava has worked, Schoppach has worked, Albers has worked, Atchinson has worked, Miller has worked, Padilla, Hill, Byrd, have all worked despite many reservations on this forum. I made a prediction that they may come in 3rd if they are lucky. Based upon what I have seen I believe this group is a damn good to use a term that I don't really like is a "DIRT DOG TEAM". They seem to believe in themselves and seem to be coming together. Cespite many talking trash about who does and who doesn't have the right mind set to be on this team I say BS. This team has shown me a lot over the past two to three weeks. If it keeps up they will go a long way. Lastly as much as I liked Terry Francona I just don't see him making many of the moves Bobby V has.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    "Lastly as much as I liked Terry Francona I just don't see him making many of the moves Bobby V has".

    Well, for one reason, BV is a much smarter manager than TF.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    You are so right Beantown!(although who calls Boston Beantown?) It is hilarious to read posters who think they are so much smarter than BV. When I was young I was the same way, it makes it so much fun to think you could do a better job than the GM or manager. You cant! 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'll say two things, mostly in agreement- 1-BC has focused on the minutiea.  I like Theo, but sometimes I thought he spent too much time looking for grand slams. 2-It was another good game for BV.  The move with Lin was exactly right.  It'll take me another month to forget about his first month worth of bad moves, but he's been okay for about a month now,
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    You must mean his running up of the ERA to a league lead, by staying with his starting 5.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    Coma spit seeds and waited for a miracle most of the time. His pitching decisions were always bad. Yikes!


    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington : I don't agree with the last part. Remember, Francona put Youk in LF for some games when they were short OF'ers. He put Gonzalez in RF last year. And in those case, he would put better defensive players in at the end. Francona was more creative and active with moving players and lineups around when necessary than he's given credit for.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    On Ben, people forget that he's been a cog in the machine for many years, and Theo always had him involved in player personel matters. I think Ben has done a good job under the circumstances. However, it is a little unclear who was doing all the mastermind work. You wonder because LL is calling shots from one office, Theo had some control, John Henry seemed to question some of that "control," and Ben was somewhere in the board room probably making actual decisions or giving advice on many matters in Sox dealings. The best thing you can say about Ben is that he didn't want BV (wanted Sweum), but has managed to work with him thus far. So, hats off to Ben. *prompt the Monopoly man*

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    I have never seen a Red Sox manager and GM make all the right moves at all the right times like BV and BC have the past two weeks.

    If you had posted this after a loss, instead of after reading a droned beat patronizing opinion on this site, you might be more than a cheerleading drone. Bobby V has done OK, but he hasn't made "all the right moves the last two weeks". Cherry certainly hasn't made "all the right moves in the past two weeks". I like the recent one run produced game, against the great lefty Matusz, and putting the biggest team contract amount still due out in RF.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]I'll say two things, mostly in agreement- 1-BC has focused on the minutiea.  I like Theo, but sometimes I thought he spent too much time looking for grand slams. 2-It was another good game for BV.  The move with Lin was exactly right.  It'll take me another month to forget about his first month worth of bad moves, but he's been okay for about a month now,
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Joe, the first month was shaky.  But, I'd give him some leeway as far as calling it "a month worth of bad moves".  first, as far as pitching changes, he had a. completely ineffective starters and relievers, which makes any move a potential disaster, and b. he had to really learn on the job in terms of who these guys were.  lots of new roles, new players, it takes time to figure out the best way to use guys (particularly bullpen).  And every uncertain move was exacerbated by a completely insonsistent performing club, offensively and pitching-wise.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine & Ben Cherrington : Joe, the first month was shaky.  But, I'd give him some leeway as far as calling it "a month worth of bad moves".  first, as far as pitching changes, he had a. completely ineffective starters and relievers, which makes any move a potential disaster, and b. he had to really learn on the job in terms of who these guys were.  lots of new roles, new players, it takes time to figure out the best way to use guys (particularly bullpen).  And every uncertain move was exacerbated by a completely insonsistent performing club, offensively and pitching-wise.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    Some has been paying attention -- and speaking good sense.

     
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