Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Daniel Bard is No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment, mystery injury concern in ...

    I think replacing Papelbon could turn out to be the biggest problem facing the Sox. Bailey has a history of injuries. Even at his best, he is not as good as Pap. Melancon has not been very impressive. If Aceves is not going to start, maybe he should get a shot at the closer's job.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    Not keeping Paps will haunt the RS for years to come. He will be considered the 2nd best closer behind Mariano once Paps career is over.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]Not keeping Paps will haunt the RS for years to come. He will be considered the 2nd best closer behind Mariano once Paps career is over.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, Jim. Sox fans who wanted him on the first thing smokin' will realize that soon enough. Paps had some shaky moments, but that's the life of a closer. Some were ready to declare Rivera done after '04.

    We're far worse off in the closer role now than we were last year. Simple fact.

    (Don't know about Paps being No. 2 all-time, but certainly in the top five).

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    With Bailey questionable, keeping Bard in the rotation makes absolutely no sense to me. (Not that it made much sense before Bailey's situation either.)

    I think I might have gone with Cook at the #5 and kept Bard and Aceves in the pen at least until things shake out.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    is pap keeps up his pace and has a long career like Mo he could be the #1 closer in history when all is said and done
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]With Bailey questionable, keeping Bard in the rotation makes absolutely no sense to me. (Not that it made much sense before Bailey's situation either.) I think I might have gone with Cook at the #5 and kept Bard and Aceves in the pen at least until things shake out.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Cook got a late start in ST because of his shoulder.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's still building up his stamina to handle a rotation spot on the Sox.  If the pen is still questionable by May 1, we could see Bard shifted back to the pen and Cook moving into the rotation ahead of his opt out date.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]Not keeping Paps will haunt the RS for years to come. He will be considered the 2nd best closer behind Mariano once Paps career is over.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Paps is one of the best, and I hated to see him go, but for the money and years he commanded, I think it was a wise decision to let him go.

    The Red Sox can get nearly the same production in the closer's role for a fraction of the cost and use the money saved on Papelbon elsewhere.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket : Cook got a late start in ST because of his shoulder.  I wouldn't be surprised if he's still building up his stamina to handle a rotation spot on the Sox.  If the pen is still questionable by May 1, we could see Bard shifted back to the pen and Cook moving into the rotation ahead of his opt out date.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    I agree.  While I really like Bard in the pen, I think Doubront and Bard in the rotation to start the season is the right call.  If no one steps it up in the pen, or if Bard falters as a starter, it will be much easier to move him back to the pen than the other way around.  Aceves can be stretched out and moved to the rotation later in the season if need be.

    As good as he was in the pen, if Bard can be effective as a starter, he is more valuable to the team in that role, not only for this year but for years to come.
     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    I'd have had no problem with Aceves as the closer with or without Bailey.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from poe1raven. Show poe1raven's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    While I believe anybody is better that francona, i am not happy with Valentines decisions.  Lavarnway should have stayed.  Bard should have been sent back to be a reliever.  Hope Valentine doesn't turn out to be a politican with the Red Sox. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]While I believe anybody is better that francona, i am not happy with Valentines decisions.  Lavarnway should have stayed.  Bard should have been sent back to be a reliever.  Hope Valentine doesn't turn out to be a politican with the Red Sox. 
    Posted by poe1raven[/QUOTE]


    Think we'll see Lavarnway at Fenway, sooner than later. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    sorry but i am not missing paps - AA can do the job or Bard if his starting doesnt work out....starters over relievers - that is basic baseball logic....sigining a guy for 50+ mil to pitch 60 innings a yr for 3 years or so, illogical...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]With Bailey questionable, keeping Bard in the rotation makes absolutely no sense to me. (Not that it made much sense before Bailey's situation either.) I think I might have gone with Cook at the #5 and kept Bard and Aceves in the pen at least until things shake out.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    In total agreement with moon...The only thing I can think of is that Bailey's "health concern" is only minor.  If it is anything moderately serious, then you want Bard in the BP.  All these questions are going to be answered soon enough...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    Would like to see Lavarnway on this team.  Shoppach is a terrible hitter and Salty isn't a whole lot better.  When was the last time we had a big right handed power bat.  I truly don't understand the Bard case either.  He has never been a good starter in his professional career so why the big change especially after the Sox lose their closer.  Aceves would have been my choice for the starter and Bard to the pen.   We may see both in the pen when the season gets rolling anyway because Cook and DiceK will be looking for a spot when they are healed up.  It will be an interesting year.  My hope is that the pitching staff gets stronger as the year goes as opposed to what happened last year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]Would like to see Lavarnway on this team.  Shoppach is a terrible hitter and Salty isn't a whole lot better.  When was the last time we had a big right handed power bat.  I truly don't understand the Bard case either.  He has never been a good starter in his professional career so why the big change especially after the Sox lose their closer.  Aceves would have been my choice for the starter and Bard to the pen.   We may see both in the pen when the season gets rolling anyway because Cook and DiceK will be looking for a spot when they are healed up.  It will be an interesting year.  My hope is that the pitching staff gets stronger as the year goes as opposed to what happened last year.
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]

    yeah but bard also hasn't started since his first year in A ball. a lot of time has passed since then and i think its safe to say he's gotten much better since then too.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]sorry but i am not missing paps - AA can do the job or Bard if his starting doesnt work out....starters over relievers - that is basic baseball logic....sigining a guy for 50+ mil to pitch 60 innings a yr for 3 years or so, illogical...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    It is NOT the innings pitched it is the amount of wins you get with him. Of 379 games/395 innings he was in as a closer he saved 219 games over 6 yrs. That is an average of 36.5 games per year they won because of him. That is far more than most starting pitchers. He is 37th in career saves only one other is in sigle digit yrs and that is 9 and to match that person at 9 yrs he only needs 30 saves in 2 years. If he averages 30 for the next 10 yrs he will be right behind Mariano.
    It is not about innings it is about contribution to the total of wins.
    BTW it is 50 for 4 yrs
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket : It is NOT the innings pitched it is the amount of wins you get with him. Of 379 games/395 innings he was in as a closer he saved 219 games over 6 yrs. That is an average of 36.5 games per year they won because of him. That is far more than most starting pitchers. He is 37th in career saves only one other is in sigle digit yrs and that is 9 and to match that person at 9 yrs he only needs 30 saves in 2 years. If he averages 30 for the next 10 yrs he will be right behind Mariano. It is not about innings it is about contribution to the total of wins. BTW it is 50 for 4 yrs
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    I Think Pap will hit thos numbers. obviously a lot can change/go wrong over 10 years but pap definitely has a shot at Mo's title
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]  Paps is one of the best, and I hated to see him go, but for the money and years he commanded, I think it was a wise decision to let him go. The Red Sox can get nearly the same production in the closer's role for a fraction of the cost and use the money saved on Papelbon elsewhere.
    Posted by RedSoxKimmi[/QUOTE]

    Well they saved the money they were going to have to pay Paps this year and rather than improve the team...they pocketed the money.  If anyone thinks the closer role is solid...think again.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    All you guys pining for Pap remember the last game last year right? And the last game in 2009 as well for that matter. I'm sorry, but IMO a great closer saves the big games. That's why Mo is a lock for the HOF on the first ballot. Then there's the money. $12.5M a year for a guy that plays a little more than 2 hours of baseball all year? Really? Look at it this way, if Papelbon is still on the team Cody Ross and Nick Punto aren't. Call me a pollyanna but I think those guys are going to give us more than Papelbon would have.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    Pap will be missed for sure, but I don't think he's missing being here.  Everybody always says he left for the money and I still disagree.  Don't think he would have stayed even if RS matched the Philly deal.  Moot point now anyhow.  Just hoping Bailey can stay off injured list. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]All you guys pining for Pap remember the last game last year right? And the last game in 2009 as well for that matter. I'm sorry, but IMO a great closer saves the big games. That's why Mo is a lock for the HOF on the first ballot. Then there's the money. $12.5M a year for a guy that plays a little more than 2 hours of baseball all year? Really? Look at it this way, if Papelbon is still on the team Cody Ross and Nick Punto aren't. Call me a pollyanna but I think those guys are going to give us more than Papelbon would have.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    Look I wanted to Papelbon back, and I'm not going to denigrate him just because he wasn't perfect. Mo is certainly in a class by himself, but he blew some big games himself in his career -- 2004 ring a bell?

    But I agree with the decision to sign him to the contract the Phillies gave him -- not so much for the yearly dollar figure, although it was high, but for the length. I like Papelbon and hope he does well in Philly, but I have concerns about the third and fourth year of that deal.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]Not keeping Paps will haunt the RS for years to come. He will be considered the 2nd best closer behind Mariano once Paps career is over.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    I don't know Jim. I've been one of Papelbon's biggest defenders on this board and will miss him. Second-best closer behind Mariano once his career is over? Geez -- I don't know if I can go there. I wouldn't put it past him, but ....

    As much as I would have liked him pack, I can't get upset with ownership for not wanting to give a closer that money. If Bailey can stay healthy, I think the Sox will be OK.

    Of course, I do have my figures crossed.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen a...

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine: Felix Doubront named the No. 4 starter, Daniel Bard No. 5 starter, Alfredo Aceves unhappy with bullpen assignment,concern for Bailey?Red Sox option Lavarnway to Pawtucket:
    [QUOTE]All you guys pining for Pap remember the last game last year right? And the last game in 2009 as well for that matter. I'm sorry, but IMO a great closer saves the big games. That's why Mo is a lock for the HOF on the first ballot. Then there's the money. $12.5M a year for a guy that plays a little more than 2 hours of baseball all year? Really? Look at it this way, if Papelbon is still on the team Cody Ross and Nick Punto aren't. Call me a pollyanna but I think those guys are going to give us more than Papelbon would have.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    OK, so '09 he let up his FIRST earned runs of his post season career (after 25 scorless innings) and game 165 was just his 3rd blown save of the year. So the idea is still the same as with Mo, once he takes the mound the game is over. But  for that money no. Not when there are kids who are being paid a fraction of that and doing a simillar job.
     
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