Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013 : personally, I dont think ANY manager would have succeeded with this team this year, thats why I think they should let him stay under much better conditions next year. That is unless they find a long-term replacement, not just a filler lame duck manager. if the team wants a new guy, then make sure its for at least 4yrs with a completely new coaching staff...
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    while i was not against bv,
    its all very twisted. imo, any chance for bv to do much has been wasted. the effort will be hung on him. if they give him one more year they will delay a new leaf that is needed. either they need to give him 3 more years (less preferable) or turn the page and bring a new (rea)l manger in (not an errand boy or yes man) who can handle cleaning up a mess, WHO DOES NOT WANT TO BE THE PLAYERS FRIEND, and preferably who at the same time has the personality to win a few players over. someone like maddon (although they probably wont have his ability).
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In Response to Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:
    [QUOTE]ask the Philly fans about Francona...then duck...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    With all due respect, that's a stupid statement.

    Cleveland fans would have said the same thing about Belichick and look what happened.

    Atlanta and Mets fans would have said the same thing about Joe Torre and look what happened. In fact, there was a lot of second-guessing when Torre was hired by he Yankees.

    Beyond that, have you ever looked at the crp for talent he had in Philly. No manager would have produced a better record.

    And beyond that, it is possible that even if Francona was as bad as you think in Philly, it is possible that he, like Belichick, learned from that experience and was was better next time around.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom2. Show proftom2's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    If Bobby V is here in 2013 I know I won't be. Count one fan out. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:

    If Bobby V is here in 2013 I know I won't be. Count one fan out. 


    Really? So your alliance to this team is not that strong I see...Listen, I didnt want Beckett re-signed, wasnt in favor of the lackey or CC FA acquisitions, amongst other deals. But if they wore the uni, I hoped they did well because Im a Sox fan. You dont leave your team because you dont like an employee of theirs...Thats NOT a fan...

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    You hoped they did well, wearing the uni? So do I, but what if you have 7,000 bloodthirsty fans telling us all that the players wearing the uni are not good fits and not team player, and don't back the manager, and are overpaid, and are cancers in the clubhouse...AND then the GM fires the team, so last night the fans all hoping for the Kids on the Block lineup got to see it in action yesterday, and the team gets murdered 10-3.....I paid $200 for 2 seats for tonight's game and i feel like I've been ripped off...No Gonzalez, no Youkilis, no Ortiz (albeit hurt), no Crawford (shut down), but lots of up-and-comers!!!! Yeah, woo-hoo....I"m a Sox fan, but I hate the manager and his horrible decisions/quotes and I further despise the organization for spinning it as Players v. Media/FO/Fans.....that's how people view it, they got their wish, and everyone is happy for a team that may no be .500 for another several years. I can understand that proftum's frustration. What I say is very true.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    not for no, apparently no edit function in posts...ugh. I can't read the type...it's little...nice layout? Yikes
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:

    Once again, re run the season exactly as it unfolded this year with 2 exceptions. Reverse the records of Beckett and Lester and the Sox are neck and neck with the Yankees for first place. To me this is a testament to the managing abilities of Valentine. He's forgotten more about managing a baseball team than Francona and Farrell ever knew ! !



    If Vanletine knew if the opposing pitcher was right or left handed, we might be ahead of the Yankees.
    And i agree about the forgetting  part.

    He's definitelty forgotten a lot...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

     chances are better than not, Valentine will be gone. Unless they're prepared to give him a new contract, he'll be a lame duck manager. If they're going to turn the page, that includes a new manager. If Ferrell wants the Sox job, the blue jays are in the same position. He'll just be playing out his contract this year, they may let him go for a prospect.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    The reason why you try to carry a 200 milliion dollar payroll is the idea that the players are quality and will help you get to the postseason. The reason why you carry a 100 million  payroll is so you can have youngsters and low contract guys and up-and-comers and not be competitive and not be in the postseason. I'm betting that about 50 percent of the fans who were excited about dumping AGON and others will find that this time next year they will be begging management to put a competitive team on the field, but since they are missing so many components and have to fill/replace so many areas, it's going to take 2 to 3 years just to get back a Worst Collapse Team of 2011.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    Valentine might be here in 2013 and might not.  I am certain the FO has not made up its collective mind.  I defend Bobby V to the death, but I'm not crazy.   Besides, I think magical managers who make silk purses out of sows ears are a myth.  John Farrell, former Sox pitching coach, finally got to manage, and right now the pitching on his team is even worse than the Sox is.  Managers make a difference only on the margins.   Francona had a fantastic run, best in Sox history, because he had great hitters and adequate or better pitchers.  When the pitching went south, so did the Sox, and Terry couldn't prevent it. 

    The recent trade was the right move in my judgment, but we won't really know whether it was until we see next year's team. 

    These two things are incontrovertiable truths about this year's Sox.  First, the pitching stunk all season long, primiarly because the rotation, which had three experienced starters, stunk.  Second, the lineup, despite all the injuries, still scored runs, 2d most in the AL so far. 

    The biggest stinkee, hands down, was Beckett, who was also the highest paid pitcher, so letting him go was a good idea.  AGon to me is a big loss, but the essential pot sweetener to lose both Beckett and CC, both vastly overpaid in terms of performance delivered. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    I dont think it will be several years until this team competes. To me, that ridiculous. We are not the A's. Rays or the Padres. There are players that will be available that will be good fits on this team. I think we can compete next year. Of course we have to get good pitching out of Buch, Lester and Doubie and at least decent starts from lacky and whoever the #5 will be. (Morales, Tazawa, FA?).
    With good production from Ellsbury, Pedey, Ortiz & Ross(if they sign), and Middlebrooks, theres no reason to believe they wont be competitive. It would also be safe to assume they will be very active this winter in aquiring some good players, and re-signing some already here to make that happen. And what I say is also very true.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    southpaw777, I agree the Sox can be competitive in 2013, but only if the rotation gets fixed. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:

    southpaw777, I agree the Sox can be competitive in 2013, but only if the rotation gets fixed. 



    I agree, as I said in my last post. The 1-3 starters need to, and I believe the can, have better than just quality starts. We need to see a couple 15 game winners in there. Buch and Lester were in Cy Young talks within the last couple years before Buch's back thing and Lester just having a down year this year. Buch has looked great since the start of June and Lester looks to be righting the ship. Doubie hitt a wall, as was expected. But I think we can expect 160-180 innings from him next year along with better efficiency to go deeper into games.
    Bottom line, the 1-3 starters NEED to be on their game throughout the year in order for us to compete. I think they can do it...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    I still think pitchers are going to think twice before signing. In fact, if you looked at any one spot that player get more abuse from it's the Pitchers...Beckett, Lester, Lackey, etc....If I was a SP, before I would say "hey they got AGON, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Ortiz, and a potent lineup that will back me up..." Now, it's "hey, they got a minor league lineup and fans and media that will eat you alive for a bad start or two. Do I really want to come here or take the 2 million less in Texas, or 3 mil less in Chicago..."
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    If I were a pitcher, the biggest obstacle to signing with Boston would be the Mickey Mouse ballpark. You get two outs, there are two on, and the batter loops a pop fly off or over the Monster. You get two outs, and  the batter slashes one sown the RF line, and the ball goes ... who knows where. Guy on third. No thanks. Never mind the pasture in center. Many more balls are batted in the air to left or on a line to right. That park distorts both pitching and batting.
    BUT I doubt that the projected lineup, with possible upgrades, would keep a pitcher from signing with Boston if the money and years are right. He'd have no say if involved in a trade.
    Let's play for a moment.
    C, Salty or Lava
    1B, Gomez  ( after a lot of work on defense )
    2B, Dustin ( finally grown up and healthy )
    SS, Ciriaco
    3B, Middy
    LF, Ross
    CF, Ells
    RF, ?  ( Get a guy )
    DH, Ortiz

    That's not on the face of it a powerhouse lineup, but there's not a weak spot in it, unless Pedro is a flash in the pan.  Punch could be expected from Salty, Ross, Middy, Ortiz, a rejuvenated Ells ( but not like 2011 ),  Gomez ( but how much? ), and a pickup for RF.  It's a lineup that should score runs.
    BUT it would go nowhere unless the rotation is much improved.  IMO, what is now available in-house will not do the trick.
    But who knows that lineup will actually look like
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:

    I still think pitchers are going to think twice before signing. In fact, if you looked at any one spot that player get more abuse from it's the Pitchers...Beckett, Lester, Lackey, etc....If I was a SP, before I would say "hey they got AGON, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Ortiz, and a potent lineup that will back me up..." Now, it's "hey, they got a minor league lineup and fans and media that will eat you alive for a bad start or two. Do I really want to come here or take the 2 million less in Texas, or 3 mil less in Chicago..."



    a minor league lineup? Come on danny...Ortiz, Ross (If they sign) Middlebrooks, Pedey, Ellsbury, Salty...I think Ross and Papi will be back. Thats 6 guys that can each hitt (why wont they allow the proper spelling of this word that has a LOT to do with baseball?) 20 dingers. 3 that are .300 hitters and 2 that are 270-280+ hitters with pop...Hardly a minor league line up...Gomez might be in the mix as well as Lav too...Both have pop. Also depending if they sign/trade for another guy. Upton? Wiilingham? Swisher? even without the last 3, this is a potent lineup. The KEY will be starting pitching...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:

    he was the voice of the dissenters.

    No, the dissenters were their own voice. The old guard left town with Youk and Beckett. AGon is a great leader by virtue of how he shows up and does his work. He'd still be here if his value wasn't used to get two big bums and their contracts out of town, Beckett and Crawbust.

    The only way people can spin that embarrassing write down is to claim that AGon was "the voice" and "had to go". Utter nonsense!




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:

    he was the voice of the dissenters.

    No, the dissenters were their own voice. The old guard left town with Youk and Beckett. AGon is a great leader by virtue of how he shows up and does his work. He'd still be here if his value wasn't used to get two big bums and their contracts out of town, Beckett and Crawbust.

    The only way people can spin that embarrassing write down is to claim that AGon was "the voice" and "had to go". Utter nonsense!



    Boy do I agree with this, especially AGon leading by example and playing every day, superbly.  I seriously doubt he was a dissenter because he just plain loves to play baseball and griping about the manager ain't part of his make-up.  Heck, he played 18 games in RF for the man.  Beyond question he was the essential pot sweetener in the Dodgers deal.  That said, I'm guessing AGon would rather be on the west coast than in Boston, especially after some of the RSN seemed to be turning against because of the dropoff in dingers.  AGon is a big loss, but hopefully his departure will allow the Sox to go after players who can make a difference.  My vote would be for pitching. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:
    [QUOTE]

    I still think pitchers are going to think twice before signing. In fact, if you looked at any one spot that player get more abuse from it's the Pitchers...Beckett, Lester, Lackey, etc....If I was a SP, before I would say "hey they got AGON, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Ortiz, and a potent lineup that will back me up..." Now, it's "hey, they got a minor league lineup and fans and media that will eat you alive for a bad start or two. Do I really want to come here or take the 2 million less in Texas, or 3 mil less in Chicago..."

    [/QUOTE]

    Youk replaced by Middlebrooks should be OK.  Pedroia, Ortiz, and Ellsbury are all returning, ditto Ross/Sweeney.  AGon a big loss, granted, but not insurmountable.  And we haven't yet seen who the FO will acquire in the offseason.  If it's impossible to pitch at Fenway, why were Clemens, Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, et al, so good?  The fans today aren't any nastier than the ones who used to boo Ted Williams--so much that he stopped waving, all the way through his final dinger in his final at bat at Fenway in 1960. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bobby Valentine WILL be here in 2013:
    [QUOTE]

    I still think pitchers are going to think twice before signing. In fact, if you looked at any one spot that player get more abuse from it's the Pitchers...Beckett, Lester, Lackey, etc....If I was a SP, before I would say "hey they got AGON, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Ortiz, and a potent lineup that will back me up..." Now, it's "hey, they got a minor league lineup and fans and media that will eat you alive for a bad start or two. Do I really want to come here or take the 2 million less in Texas, or 3 mil less in Chicago..."

    [/QUOTE]

    Youk replaced by Middlebrooks should be OK.  Pedroia, Ortiz, and Ellsbury are all returning, ditto Ross/Sweeney.  AGon a big loss, granted, but not insurmountable.  And we haven't yet seen who the FO will acquire in the offseason.  If it's impossible to pitch at Fenway, why were Clemens, Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, et al, so good?  The fans today aren't any nastier than the ones who used to boo Ted Williams--so much that he stopped waving, all the way through his final dinger in his final at bat at Fenway in 1960. 

     

    [/QUOTE]
    Top of the line pitchers can pitch anywhere, but by and large and on whole Fenway has not been a healthy environment for pitchers. See Boston's history. 
     
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