Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Middlebrooks, definitely.  Bogaerts is a rookie and just got some lucky hits and walks and stuff,plus he has very little experience at 3B. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Max, 

    I couldn't disagree more. Walks are not luck. Boggy's, extremely poised for his age has a surprisingly good eye for the strike zone for someone who just turned 21. Whil his teamates were swinging and missing on pitches way outside or cutters practically below the knees or in the dirt, Boggy more than held his own with Detroit starter working the count for walk. Most pitches that he didn't swing at in and outside that were close were called balls.

    As for his hits, most of the ones I recall he tagged pretty well. I'm tired of this luck thing folks refer to. For every hit you can attribute to luck and good hitter like Boggy probably gets robbed on greats plays. Or a better way to put it "luck is what you make it".

    Hetch 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    Interesting stat, Bogaerts walk rate has gone up at every single level he has played.....and he just turned 21. 

    He's not a top prospect because he has 8 power, he's probably more of a 20-25 HR guy (although some think he has the potential to have 30+ in his prime years) He's a top prospect because he's a .300 hitter he's going to get on base above a .400 clip and he plays a premium position and has shown positional versatility.

    I normally agree with not putting a rookie in the spotlight, but it's not like he hasn't been playing baseball his whole life, he's a rookie to the big show but he's a veteran in the game of baseball and as I said in my last post not all rookies are created equal.  Bogaerts breaks the mold, he's special, he's a cut above the rest...and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a monster series.

    He's one of the most talented hitters on our team, has a rare skill set and most importantly St. Louis probably has less scouting on him that ANYONE. 

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Middlebrooks, definitely.  Bogaerts is a rookie and just got some lucky hits and walks and stuff,plus he has very little experience at 3B. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Max, 

    I couldn't disagree more. Walks are not luck. Boggy's, extremely poised for his age has a surprisingly good eye for the strike zone for someone who just turned 21. Whil his teamates were swinging and missing on pitches way outside or cutters practically below the knees or in the dirt, Boggy more than held his own with Detroit starter working the count for walk. Most pitches that he didn't swing at in and outside that were close were called balls.

    As for his hits, most of the ones I recall he tagged pretty well. I'm tired of this luck thing folks refer to. For every hit you can attribute to luck and good hitter like Boggy probably gets robbed on greats plays. Or a better way to put it "luck is what you make it".

    Hetch 

    [/QUOTE]


    Walks can be luck and depend on the mood of the umpire.   The last walk he got hit the frame and could have easily been a strike.  Hits aren't luck unless you have someone playing shallow when a power hitter like Ortiz is up

    [/QUOTE]

    you are correct and wrong.  you have to actually hit the ball to get a hit, that takes skill, the luck factor comes in on how they fall but over time you get a clearer picture of just how good a hitter is.

    Walks are not lucky either.  Maybe you get a pitcher who has zero control and you take 4 balls in a row, but working the count to draw a walk is not luck.

    Bogaerts took a pitch right on the corner, that is called a strike often but I've seen many umpires with a tight zone call that a ball.

    If you take a borderline pitches on every 3-2 count you would walk 50% of the time.  He swung and missed on that pitch earlier in the at-bat and most players swing and miss at that nasty slider that break off the plate.....he had the eye to lay off of it. He's a very smart hitter who will strike out some times because of that but I think he's going to walk a TON in his career as well.

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Interesting stat, Bogaerts walk rate has gone up at every single level he has played.....and he just turned 21. 

    He's not a top prospect because he has 8 power, he's probably more of a 20-25 HR guy (although some think he has the potential to have 30+ in his prime years) He's a top prospect because he's a .300 hitter he's going to get on base above a .400 clip and he plays a premium position and has shown positional versatility.

    I normally agree with not putting a rookie in the spotlight, but it's not like he hasn't been playing baseball his whole life, he's a rookie to the big show but he's a veteran in the game of baseball and as I said in my last post not all rookies are created equal.  Bogaerts breaks the mold, he's special, he's a cut above the rest...and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a monster series.

    He's one of the most talented hitters on our team, has a rare skill set and most importantly St. Louis probably has less scouting on him that ANYONE. 

    [/QUOTE]


    you got all that from just one homer in the majors?  Or possibly you are basing your predictions on the generic minor league pitching he faced.  I'd probably go with the guy who has more homers this year, that would be middy.

    [/QUOTE]

    I got it because I'm fascinated and obsessed with minor league baseball and red sox prospects in general.  Between the Portland Sea Dogs and the Pawtucket paw sox I catch well over a dozen games a year.  Every once in a blue moon I even travel down to Greenville and catch a game.  I read baseball america, minour league ball, soxprospects, I follow Badler, sickels, Mayo, Law, all of the Sox prospects staff and many more on twitter.  i can practically recite to you the top 100 from various sources.  

    So NOOO I'm not basing this on ONE homerun.  I'm basing it on the fact that Bogaerts is the most elite talent to come into Bostons system since Hanley Ramirez with maybe even more potential....he's effectively been HanRam with a better attitude and more of a work ethic, he's an elite talent that has had almost ZERO adjustment time at every level of baseball in his LIFE and here he is doing it yet again at the top level having just turned 21.

     

    What is WMB? he has one year of MLB under his belt but he's been very up and down and streaky.  I'm a huge supporter of WMB and hope he is our full time 3Bman next year from start to finish....but you HAVE to put Bogaerts in this lineup anyway you can. 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    and on the inferior minor league pitching....I stat I saw earlier in the year when he was still in Pawtucket so I'm sure the number hasn't gone up....but he has only had 25 at bats his entire life against younger competition.

    He has well over 2,000 at bats and every single one (almost) has been against someone who should be more advanced than he is.

    His stats have improved at every level.

    His BB% went up at every level.

    Bogaerts is an elite talent, not all #1 prospects are created equal, some take more time to adjust than others and WMB is a perfect example of that.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At least Middy has been up.  In the time Boggie has been up he has done nothing earth shattering.  If you saw Boggie play in the minors then you saw a lot of balls go by him.  He had a history of double clutching in the minors and although only done once while up, the bad habit is still something that could happen.

    Middy still has 15 homers on the season.  Not bad for a guy who spent a few months in pawtucket and batted 7 or 8th in the line up.  I expect Boggie to look for even more walks because now the starters will actually have a book on him.

    Boggie no doubt will be a good player, but right now I would go with the more experienced.  Just my opinion which like all on this board, mean nothing.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't watch at-bats and judge a player by outcome alone, especially in such small sample sizes.

    I've seen Bogaerts strike out on a tough pitch then come up in his next at bat and square up the same exact pitch.  Making in-game adjustments like that at his age is extremely rare, even if he hits a line drive and it goes right at someone I walk away impressed.  That doesn't show up in the box score, but a scout sees that.  That is just one example of many of what kind of player he is.   He is putting together good at bats, and is more than holding his own against big league pitching.....He's a stud, and belongs here. 

     

    And that book they have on Boggy....I gurantee you theres a lot more stuff on Drew and Middlebrooks in it, and they have shown to be very slow to make adjustments. 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Middlebrooks, definitely.  Bogaerts is a rookie and just got some lucky hits and walks and stuff,plus he has very little experience at 3B. 




    Agree. I've always been more about defense than offense. Doesn't get as much fanfare, but it changes the game when you don't have it.

    [/QUOTE]

    been fighting it all day

    but I have to agree

    I'm very surprised how many here discount bogarts

    very very limited expierence at 3B as if it means nothing

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Middlebrooks, definitely.  Bogaerts is a rookie and just got some lucky hits and walks and stuff,plus he has very little experience at 3B. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree. I've always been more about defense than offense. Doesn't get as much fanfare, but it changes the game when you don't have it.

    [/QUOTE]

    been fighting it all day

    but I have to agree

    I'm very surprised how many here discount bogarts very very limited expierence at 3B

    as if it means nothing

    [/QUOTE]


    It's minimized because Middlebrooks hasn't exactly played GG 3b himself.

    Less of a difference than if he replaced Drew, at SS.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    been fighting it all day

    but I have to agree

    I'm very surprised how many here discount bogarts

    very very limited expierence at 3B as if it means nothing

    [/QUOTE]

    not supplanting B. Robinson......

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    I'm very surprised how many here discount bogarts very very limited expierence at 3B

    as if it means nothing



    It's minimized because Middlebrooks hasn't exactly played GG 3b himself.

    understood, still not sure if I agree that's enough

     

    Less of a difference than if he replaced Drew, at SS.

    R U saying drew is much better at SS than bogarts or

    just that drew is better then mbrooks at their positions

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    45 games but not as a starter, he has less at bats than games played.  No question middy has more power but Bogaerts is an all around complete hitter. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    I'm very surprised how many here discount bogarts very very limited expierence at 3B

    as if it means nothing



    It's minimized because Middlebrooks hasn't exactly played GG 3b himself.

    understood, still not sure if I agree that's enough

     

    Less of a difference than if he replaced Drew, at SS.

    R U saying drew is much better at SS than bogarts or

    just that drew is better then mbrooks at their positions

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Better than Bogearts, not "much better".

    Much better than Middlebrooks, at their respective positions.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    He did fine in the field.  made all the plays hit to him. 

    it will be interesting to see how Farrell plays it after the o-fer at the dish.....

    basing it on the jonny-thugs factor, i bet X-bo stays in the lineup.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    45 games but not as a starter, he has less at bats than games played.  No question middy has more power but Bogaerts is an all around complete hitter. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I was not able to make it to the end of the game.  I will assume he did ok in the field but his stats were no better than Middy's. 

    [/QUOTE]

    his post season line is .333/.533/.667 with 7 runs scored.....I'd say thats better than what Middy was giving us. 

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Bogaerts or Middlebrooks?

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to The4040club's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    45 games but not as a starter, he has less at bats than games played.  No question middy has more power but Bogaerts is an all around complete hitter. 

    [/QUOTE]


    I was not able to make it to the end of the game.  I will assume he did ok in the field but his stats were no better than Middy's. 

    [/QUOTE]

    his post season line is .333/.533/.667 with 7 runs scored.....I'd say thats better than what Middy was giving us. 

    [/QUOTE]


    again I see you like stats unless they don't work in your favor.  Middy has the 15 mlb homers under his belt this season.  He also has a lot more dirty uniforms sent to the cleaners, something they don't keep stats on so you would not know.

    Last night the cardinal were really bad, even drew got a hit.

    [/QUOTE]

    You underestimate my love and knowledge for the game.  It's not just about the stats, Bogaerts also has the tools, raw athleticism, and the top prospect pedigree to go along with what he has done.  Bogaerts is a better hitter.  Hit a ball 450 feet as a 20 year old, and that Double in the ALCS would have been a HR in every other ball park.

    Bogaerts is the better decision whether you look with your eyes or if you look into the numbers, if anything with the absence of a MLb track record it is soooo much more than the numbers that makes the argument of Bogaerts over middlebrooks.

    I challenge you to find one scout or baseball analyst in know who supports your position....ONE. 

     
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