Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVP1686. Show MVP1686's posts

    Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Every team makings its moves and Ben Cherrington come with this, a catcher who cant hit. I think that this move was unneccesary because we have lavarnway in fold for the rockie minimum. What do you guys think about it>?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Possible reasons for this signing, how about:
    • protection if Salty or Lavarnway get injured
    • having another major league experienced catcher around in case Lavarnway is not ready for prime time
    • maybe Lavarnway is being used in a trade package to bring pitching here
    • maybe Salty is being used in a trade package

    In any event a 1 year / $1+ million contract will not break the team budget.

     


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

      If it means the end of Varitek, I'm all for it.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Better move than 2011 debacle, finally getting a player who doesn't have a little league arm. It is quite false that all bases are stolen on the pitcher. That is true only for runners with good speed. Ortiz would have been near 80% S against Varitek.

    Varitek is now officially done, kicked out of MLB as a player because he refused to retire after washing up. Any backup gig will not last long before his release, and will only involve a near minimum non-guaranteed type of deal. Harness and Moonslob will need medical attention to keep from harming himself.

    But, despite an improvement from 2011, still a penny wise and a pound foolish. In prior market years, I have been saying to do this and get a defensive catcher and kick Varitek to the curb. But, Hernandez was a better value and could have been signed to a 1 year deal at 3.5 plus easy basic incentives for another CBA excluded 2K and a year 2 option player opt out and team buyout at 2.5. Better deal than Hernandez got because he is paid more for 2012 and ends up with 2.5 in year 2 minimum but can easily get another 1M or more if he opts out or if he likes it he can stay and still make about the same as the other deal. More control and almost the same amount of guaranteed money. That would have been a CBA bean counter 3 for 2012, which is only 1.65 base points higher than Shoppach.

    Shoppach is a black hole at the plate, Hernandez is solid in all areas.

    All else equal in spring, Lavarnway should leap frog Salty and Salty should be traded at first best opportunity. If Lavarnway is clearly behind, prepare for black hole catcher spot but at least without pitiful clumsy hands of stone and/or paper arms.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    I believe the main reason Shoppach got signed is because he led the AL with 41% runners thrown out.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Great, the article mentions possibly using Lavarnway in a trade.
    The only right MLB ready handed power possibility in the Sox system , and they could dump him?
    Wow!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Hernandez got 2 years 6.4 million from Colorado so the Red Sox likely would have had to at least match the guaranteed money.

    In my opinion Herndandez at 2/7 would have been a great way to solidify the Catcher position for the next 2 years.  Shoppach is a good defensive catcher but cannont hit a lick.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    someone is getting traded...don't even be suprised if it's Shoppach
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    who needs catching help desperately??
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]Hernandez got 2 years 6.4 million from Colorado so the Red Sox likely would have had to at least match the guaranteed money. In my opinion Herndandez at 2/7 would have been a great way to solidify the Catcher position for the next 2 years.  Shoppach is a good defensive catcher but cannont hit a lick.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Hernandez = 6.4 / 2 = 3.2 is equal having both Shoppach and Salty for a combined of 3 million dollars a year!!!

    Boston can use the other 3 million dollars to sign a pitcher!!


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]Great, the article mentions possibly using Lavarnway in a trade. The only right MLB ready handed power possibility in the Sox system , and they could dump him? Wow!
    Posted by GhostofTito[/QUOTE]

    Could it be that the writer of the article was rambling and ranting and wanted to cover every possible, potential motive but wasn't prioritizing any of them?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Hernandez got 2 years 6.4 million from Colorado so the Red Sox likely would have had to at least match the guaranteed money.

    Hernandez was a better value and could have been signed to a 1 year deal at 3.5 plus easy basic incentives for another CBA excluded 2K and a year 2 option player opt out and team buyout at 2.5. Better deal than Hernandez got because he is paid more for 2012 and ends up with 2.5 in year 2 minimum but can easily get another 1M or more if he opts out or if he likes it he can stay and still make about the same as the other deal. More control and almost the same amount of guaranteed money. That would have been a CBA bean counter 3 for 2012, which is only 1.65 base points higher than Shoppach
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]Hernandez got 2 years 6.4 million from Colorado so the Red Sox likely would have had to at least match the guaranteed money. Hernandez was a better value and could have been signed to a 1 year deal at 3.5 plus easy basic incentives for another CBA excluded 2K and a year 2 option player opt out and team buyout at 2.5. Better deal than Hernandez got because he is paid more for 2012 and ends up with 2.5 in year 2 minimum but can easily get another 1M or more if he opts out or if he likes it he can stay and still make about the same as the other deal. More control and almost the same amount of guaranteed money . That would have been a CBA bean counter 3 for 2012, which is only 1.65 base points higher than Shoppach
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Whether or not the 2nd year is guaranteed or an option/buyout, I think we are in agreement that Hernandez would have been worth 2-3 million more than Shoppach in 2012.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington" : Whether or not the 2nd year is guaranteed or an option/buyout, I think we are in agreement that Hernandez would have been worth 2-3 million more than Shoppach in 2012.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Only if the plan would be to have Hernandez start.  But, if Salty is the Man, the numbers don't makes sense for a back-up catcher, especially with Lavarnway in the wings as C/DH.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington" : Could it be that the writer of the article was rambling and ranting and wanted to cover every possible, potential motive but wasn't prioritizing any of them?
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like Softhank....and if one of the possibilities actually happens, the writer can then boast to anonymous strangers that he was "right" "again"....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington" : Only if the plan would be to have Hernandez start.  But, if Salty is the Man, the numbers don't makes sense for a back-up catcher, especially with Lavarnway in the wings as C/DH.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    The Catcher position has been "waiting in the wings" for 2-3 years now and if the plan for 2012 is Salty/Shoppach/Lavarnaway than really it will be another "waiting in the wings year."  Lavarnaway is still at least a year away from regular catching duties, bringing in Shoppach is evidence of that and I don't think Salty really took the reigns last year. 

    Hernandez hit .282/.341 last year and threw out 37% of runners, so if he starts 80+ games, that is absolutely worth 3 million in my book compared to Shoppach's .176/.268 throwing out 40% of runners.   Hernandez hits LHP especially well, .303/.384 over the last 3 years, that is something this line-up could use.

    I find it very puzzling that this team consistently fails to address certain area's of this team.  Hernandez would be an upgrade over what they currently have at Catcher and it would have cost them 2-3 million, seems like a small but practical investment to me.




     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    Whether or not the 2nd year is guaranteed or an option/buyout, I think we are in agreement that Hernandez would have been worth 2-3 million more than Shoppach in 2012.

    2nd year option isn't guaranteed, but the buyout guaranteed him 6 million plus easy 2K of standard easy performance/playing incentives. Since Hernandez would be thus virtually guaranteed 6.1 million from Red Sox, pretty obvious he could easily find another .5 million in 2013 market to exceed his current deal. Plus, he controls his own destiny after year 1 but is virtually guaranteed the same money as the deal he signed. And 2012 bean count only goes up less than 2 base points.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    I find it very puzzling that this team consistently fails to address certain area's of this team. Hernandez would be an upgrade over what they currently have at Catcher and it would have cost them 2-3 million, seems like a small but practical investment to me.

    True, and cost would only have been bean counter less than 2M more for 2012. Frankly, the FO buddies are not that smart.

    I mean, Wakefield in your 2011 rotation, vs. the entire farm and available one year cheap world baseball market? Truly a joke.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]Whether or not the 2nd year is guaranteed or an option/buyout, I think we are in agreement that Hernandez would have been worth 2-3 million more than Shoppach in 2012. 2nd year option isn't guaranteed, but the buyout guaranteed him 6 million plus easy 2K of standard easy performance/playing incentives. Since Hernandez would be thus virtually guaranteed 6.1 million from Red Sox, pretty obvious he could easily find another .5 million in 2013 market to exceed his current deal. Plus, he controls his own destiny after year 1 but is virtually guaranteed the same money as the deal he signed. And 2012 bean count only goes up less than 2 base points.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Wow, you don't even let people agree with you!!  I'd counterpoint but seeing as how Hernandez is with the Rockies, your debate is no longer hypothetical, it is just pointless.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    We agree, and I didn't need to let you agree;)
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

      THE BELL HAS TOLLED  FOR ONE JASON V-TECK........  A GRATEFUL RED SOX NATION & THE "BIG O" THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]We agree, and I didn't need to let you agree;)
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Well when Shoppach and Salty are flailing away at the plate next year I bet others will agree that 2-3 million seems pretty fair for a Catcher that hits .280 and throws out 37% of runners.  Hernandez has a .384 OBP vs. LHP in the past 3 years, not that the Red Sox face any good LHP in the AL east.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    True, you seem to get my point since last summer. It is absurd, but at least Varitek is gone and slight position improvment is better than none at all. But plain stupid not to lock up hernandez with the early specific offer I said to lock him up with.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington"

    In Response to Re: Boston Sign Kelly Shoppach "WoW Nothing Ben Cherington":
    [QUOTE]True, you seem to get my point since last summer. It is absurd, but at least Varitek is gone and slight position improvment is better than none at all. But plain stupid not to lock up hernandez with the early specific offer I said to lock him up with.
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]

    Shockingly, I actually identified Hernandez on my own as a good FA move for the Red Sox this off season but I do remember seeing you mention his name a while back, it made me question whether I thought it was still a good idea :)
     
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