Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheFutureNow. Show TheFutureNow's posts

    Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

     

    It is mind-boggling that Boston Sportswriters are trying to defend their choices of PED -ophiles and in-bred liars,  like Clemens and Bonds and Piazza, who :

    - used drugs to cheat a game that is a game of honor as well as a game of rules

    - then lied about it and still lie about it to this day in order to make a buck.

    Have the writers (and many fans I note)  lost sense of what is right in the world ?

    In their hurry to catch a piece of glory with Clemens and his Boston connection, the Boston Sportswirters are out-of touch with rest of USA on this issue.

    We simply note that 90 % of Boston sportswriters voted for PED-users whereas only 35 % of the total writers pool did. Shaughnessy the amazing exception , and including Piazza as a well-suspected Ped user.

    Are drugs so much a part of Boston life that "hey, everyone does it ?" and "anything to get ahead is ok " is now the lens through which human endeavour is judged is viewed.???

    How can these writers (or fans) ever tell their kids " it's not whether you win or lose , it is how you play the game" ???

    The writers themselves are showing co-addictive behavior in the  best case  or a cynicism which defies belief in the worst case.

    It is a Hall of Fame - not a Hall of Notoriety and the writers do not have the luxury of claiming ignorance.

    The stats are as meaningless as if the players always used corked bats or used doppelgangers to pitch every other game....

    Boston writers - please show some integrity in future ballots and change your views on these cheats.

    Sam

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

    [/QUOTE]


    The fact he played on the METS,  is enough to keep him out;)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

    [/QUOTE]

    Both substances allowed users to perform better than normal.

    The biggest problem I have with all this is "suspicions".  If you suspect someone was using, why would you vote them in?  If you suspect someone with no evidence, why not suspect everyone?  And if you do, then keep them all out....or ignore the issue and put the best, most famous baseball players in the baseball museum. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

    [/QUOTE]


    The fact he played on the METS, is enough to keep him out;)

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess that means we're throwing Seaver and Ryan under the bus too :-)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    There are almost as many "cheaters" in all pro sports as there are legit players.

    What we need is TWO Halls of Fame....the one for the good guys and the one for the bad guys.

    We could call the one for "bad" players could be THE DARK HALL OF FAME.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    ...and the other, the Good, or Carolina, HOF.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are almost as many "cheaters" in all pro sports as there are legit players.

    What we need is TWO Halls of Fame....the one for the good guys and the one for the bad guys.

    We could call the one for "bad" players could be THE DARK HALL OF FAME.

    [/QUOTE]


    The Dark Hall Of Fame. I like that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

    [/QUOTE]

    Both substances allowed users to perform better than normal.

    The biggest problem I have with all this is "suspicions".  If you suspect someone was using, why would you vote them in?  If you suspect someone with no evidence, why not suspect everyone?  And if you do, then keep them all out....or ignore the issue and put the best, most famous baseball players in the baseball museum. 

    [/QUOTE]


    A message has to be delivered; and this is a good start. If a criminal gets away with something, he gets away with it. This doesn;t include the case where if he/she is tried and acquitted due to defects/loopholes in the law that are at least fairly obvious to a majority of the masses, because there's still the court of public opinion. (See the 1919 Black Sox incident). Almost the same difference.

    As far as greenies vs steroids, I wouldn't put stealing a cup of coffee in the same category as the Enron scandal; it's still stealing, but by a different magnitude.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    As far as greenies vs steroids, I wouldn't put stealing a cup of coffee in the same category as the Enron scandal; it's still stealing, but by a different magnitude.

    Greenies helped some players perform better after not getting enough sleep or whatever the reason they were tired or down. Some players needed greenies because they were petying hard the night before (their choice). Some players used PEDs to recover from injuries quicker (not their own fault).

    I'm not defending PED users. I don't think they should be in the HOF, but the point about greenies and other drug usage during earlier eras is a strng point.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

    [/QUOTE]

    Both substances allowed users to perform better than normal.

    The biggest problem I have with all this is "suspicions".  If you suspect someone was using, why would you vote them in?  If you suspect someone with no evidence, why not suspect everyone?  And if you do, then keep them all out....or ignore the issue and put the best, most famous baseball players in the baseball museum. 

    [/QUOTE]


    A message has to be delivered; and this is a good start. If a criminal gets away with something, he gets away with it. This doesn;t include the case where if he/she is tried and acquitted due to defects/loopholes in the law that are at least fairly obvious to a majority of the masses, because there's still the court of public opinion. (See the 1919 Black Sox incident). Almost the same difference.

    As far as greenies vs steroids, I wouldn't put stealing a cup of coffee in the same category as the Enron scandal; it's still stealing, but by a different magnitude.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think you underestimate the impact of amphetemines in keeping players playing such a long season.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    baseball has been a game of cheating since its inception. I'm happy they are cleaning it up now to make it a level playing field but that doesn't negate the fact that the steroid era is part of the history of the game. I want my kids to know who the greatest players of all time were. That includes Bonds and Clemons.

    i totally agree with the viewpoints of the Boston sportswriters

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    As far as greenies vs steroids, I wouldn't put stealing a cup of coffee in the same category as the Enron scandal; it's still stealing, but by a different magnitude.

    Greenies helped some players perform better after not getting enough sleep or whatever the reason they were tired or down. Some players needed greenies because they were petying hard the night before (their choice). Some players used PEDs to recover from injuries quicker (not their own fault).

    I'm not defending PED users. I don't think they should be in the HOF, but the point about greenies and other drug usage during earlier eras is a strng point.

    [/QUOTE]


    See my earlier posts. And, Mike Madden doesn't agree about greenies.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to nhsteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Do you want to throw Mantle, Mays and Aaron out of the HOF?  They all admitted taking greenies.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Completely different category; they were getting over partying usually. The steroid issue is nuclear. Regardless, when it comes to the players, owners, and MLBPA, you reap what you sow.

    Having said that, while suspicious, I think Piazza shall eventually get in. Also, I suspect Biggio a little.

    [/QUOTE]

    Both substances allowed users to perform better than normal.

    The biggest problem I have with all this is "suspicions".  If you suspect someone was using, why would you vote them in?  If you suspect someone with no evidence, why not suspect everyone?  And if you do, then keep them all out....or ignore the issue and put the best, most famous baseball players in the baseball museum. 

    [/QUOTE]


    A message has to be delivered; and this is a good start. If a criminal gets away with something, he gets away with it. This doesn;t include the case where if he/she is tried and acquitted due to defects/loopholes in the law that are at least fairly obvious to a majority of the masses, because there's still the court of public opinion. (See the 1919 Black Sox incident). Almost the same difference.

    As far as greenies vs steroids, I wouldn't put stealing a cup of coffee in the same category as the Enron scandal; it's still stealing, but by a different magnitude.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think you underestimate the impact of amphetemines in keeping players playing such a long season.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, they give a good short term (i.e a few hrs) fix; still, there is no comparison, not that I advocate their use; the venerated sportswriter Mike Madden mentioned the same thing yesterday; call it a misdemeanor if you will.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]


    Who said it was OK? However, should petty larceny have the same penalty as grand?

    You think Sammy Sosa hitting 60+ HRS 3 x in a 4 YR time span is even close to what you would expect for a player with his good, but not Ruthian abilities?

     

    More about Sosa:

     He's listed at ONLY 165 lbs in Baseball Reference.com. 

    When he tallied 60+ HRs those 3x, he led the league ZERO Times. That's because he was bested by McGwire twice & Bonds the last time - unbelievable.

    These 6 Seasonal HR Totals are the highest in MLB History, the highest was 73, then 70. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]

    One of the major differences is that you can use steroids and HGH as much as you want.  You can't do that with greenies.  If Mantle popped speed everyday, he'd be dead in a year.  It is just counter-productive after a relatively small amount.  You take it before a Friday night game, and you'll be awake at 5:30 on saturday morning.  You pop one before the Saturday afternoon game, and you'll be raring to go at 11PM.  If speed was so easy to use, I'd be taking it every single morning.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]

    One of the major differences is that you can use steroids and HGH as much as you want.  You can't do that with greenies.  If Mantle popped speed everyday, he'd be dead in a year.  It is just counter-productive after a relatively small amount.  You take it before a Friday night game, and you'll be awake at 5:30 on saturday morning.  You pop one before the Saturday afternoon game, and you'll be raring to go at 11PM.  If speed was so easy to use, I'd be taking it every single morning.

    [/QUOTE]


    I recall Aaron admitting this, but not Mantle & Mays. Regardless, you can be sure they took 'em. From what I understand, TW took 'em too, and was hinted at in his definitive biography(an excellent one, and a must read, by Leigh Montville) ; in Jim Bouton's Ball Four (1970), he claimed most of the league was taking them from time to time; but, as you said, you can't do it all the time; unless you want to be strung out, which would make your playing ability nosedive. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]

    One of the major differences is that you can use steroids and HGH as much as you want.  You can't do that with greenies.  If Mantle popped speed everyday, he'd be dead in a year.  It is just counter-productive after a relatively small amount.  You take it before a Friday night game, and you'll be awake at 5:30 on saturday morning.  You pop one before the Saturday afternoon game, and you'll be raring to go at 11PM.  If speed was so easy to use, I'd be taking it every single morning.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point was just that we have established that it is OK to cheat...just don't cheat too much.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]

    One of the major differences is that you can use steroids and HGH as much as you want.  You can't do that with greenies.  If Mantle popped speed everyday, he'd be dead in a year.  It is just counter-productive after a relatively small amount.  You take it before a Friday night game, and you'll be awake at 5:30 on saturday morning.  You pop one before the Saturday afternoon game, and you'll be raring to go at 11PM.  If speed was so easy to use, I'd be taking it every single morning.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point was just that we have established that it is OK to cheat...just don't cheat too much.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeter rubs out the back line of the batters' box so he can move back an extra inch or two.  No HOF for him?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Boston Sports writers out of Sync on HOF vote

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to traven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem with arguing the difference between greenies and steroids is that you are now arguing about the degree of cheating involved since both are cheating...so if you only cheated a little bit with greenies that was OK, but if you cheated a lot with PEDs that is too much cheating.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]

    One of the major differences is that you can use steroids and HGH as much as you want.  You can't do that with greenies.  If Mantle popped speed everyday, he'd be dead in a year.  It is just counter-productive after a relatively small amount.  You take it before a Friday night game, and you'll be awake at 5:30 on saturday morning.  You pop one before the Saturday afternoon game, and you'll be raring to go at 11PM.  If speed was so easy to use, I'd be taking it every single morning.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point was just that we have established that it is OK to cheat...just don't cheat too much.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeter rubs out the back line of the batters' box so he can move back an extra inch or two.  No HOF for him?

    [/QUOTE]

    Depends on which pill he took that makes him do that.

     
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