BP Dilemma

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Girardi-Inept. Show Girardi-Inept's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    My Yankees came back with four runs in the 6th. If Nova was yanked earlier then it would be a ballgame now. There is no excuse for what Girardi did.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    6 runs in the second, some were caused by errors, infield hits, passed balls...

    Are you saying he should have yanked him in the 2nd?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]Bill , my statement "going with the hot hand" refers to an individual game, not a multiple. For example, Tito takes Hill out after he easily retires the first two hitters. Not just lefty hitters. Why? I can't believe he'd do it because of prior match-ups. The SS is too small, and Hill is a different pitcher now. I don't care who the reliever is, if his pitch count is low or reasonable, and he's very effective: STAY WITH HIM! There are no guarantees, but current form is usually the over-riding factor. Moon : I'm not suggesting any trades for other relievers. I'm saying that Tito has got to deploy a different approach to compensate for short-comings. He's too stuck on role definition. He's letting SS match-ups dictate over common sense. He's over-playing this "bring him in since he's warming up/don't use him if he's warmed up more than once" BS. These guys aren't paper dolls. They aren't as  fragile as glass. Bard is a big key, and he's gonna fall out of favor unless he picks it up.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Harness,

    I tend to agree with what you're trying to say.  It should not be rocket science.  If you put a guy out there facing lefties & righties, & he looks REAL GOOD......  For God's sake, don't over think it!  Especially when a lot of guys in the pen aren't looking too hot, or are over-taxed.  Hill is plenty rested...... Let him keep going!  NOBODY is going to second guess that kind of common sense call by Tito! 

    It's an OPINION!  You don't have to smack the guy over the head!  It's a pretty common sense opinion at that!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    You can certainly disagree, but this is NOT a CRAZY idea! 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]My Yankees came back with four runs in the 6th. If Nova was yanked earlier then it would be a ballgame now. There is no excuse for what Girardi did.
    Posted by Girardi-Inept[/QUOTE]

    I sure wish he had burned out the bullpen instead and still lost.  Why not pitch Mo for the final three innings? 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Or, that we could have faced Nova.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    and Lackey tonight. Both were clearly not on their A-game

    Do you specialize in being out of touch.

    2010 Lackey ERA 4.40 WHIP 1.419

    2011 Lackey ERA 8.01 WHIP 1.805

    I'd hate to see Lackey's B game.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Too bad Lackey can't face a line-up of 9 Bill Halls.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BP Dilemma : Harness, I tend to agree with what you're trying to say.  It should not be rocket science.  If you put a guy out there facing lefties & righties, & he looks REAL GOOD......  For God's sake, don't over think it!  Especially when a lot of guys in the pen aren't looking too hot, or are over-taxed.  Hill is plenty rested...... Let him keep going!  NOBODY is going to second guess that kind of common sense call by Tito!  It's an OPINION!  You don't have to smack the guy over the head!  It's a pretty common sense opinion at that!
    Posted by redsoxdirtdog[/QUOTE]

    I think UR right. Much of this is common sense made difficult by confusing the matter with role definition and short SS match-ups.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Too bad Lackey can't face 9 Jed Lowries, because that would mean he'd get a win by default because Jed Lowries seldom show up for work.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    As I read this, I'm listening to Gregg Zahn's comments replaying yesterday's game.
    If I didn't know any better, I'd swear he was a pitcher. The way he speaks of working hitters, rhythm, targets...

    To think there are still some clowns here who think Catchers have nothing to do with pitching.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Spoken like a true old catcher who never made it past pee wee league.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Greg Zahn - a pee wee catcher?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    No, you. Greg Zahn is a washed up and quite bad old catcher who washed out and needs to validate his importance by claiming the catcher is this magic fingers act on the pitching staff. When, in fact, 100% of the credit goes to the pitcher. Sorry, Greg. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Greg Zahn: LT .252 hitter. 194 dingers. .342 OBP. Not too shabby a career.
    Excellent handler of pitchers.

    Me? I never caught a game in my life. But I'm honest as to their impact on pitching.
    R U?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]Why are certain pitchers allowed to throw the game away while others are pulled while succeeding. Why does the starter have to get through 5th. Why must we wait untill the eleventh hour to see a pinch hitter or a hit and run. Maybe if the team was asked, no told to perform some of the little things they could pull a few of these tight games out instead of relying on station to station all the time. Francona has never had or tried to game manage past the little league level and it shows. And as far as the two W.S. titles go, all he had to do was keep his hands of the wheel and enjoy the ride. Oh yeah, and enable the crap out of Manny.
    Posted by plinny[/QUOTE]

    If you don't know by now, Francona manages two or three games ahead. He has a plan on who he is going to start and how the BP will be used far in advnce, because he manages baseball games on paper, and is inflexible. So, when the plan fails to come to fruition, he is at a loss to make a decision and when he does, it's usually too late, or he just mails it in altogether.
    He is a terrible situational manager.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Building a bullpen is fraught with frustration. All middle relievers have their faults - that's why they don't start or close.  It is less of a science than we would think.

    I suspect that Theo likes the upside of everyone he has picked up, though the possibility for implosions - individually or as a group - remains all too real.  We saw it last year and we are seeing it again.  (Do any of us really go, "Hey, Oki is getting the call! It's Miller Time!") 

    The initial reaction to signing Wheeler and Jenks was pretty good. In hindsight, one could say that we should have done better.  I made fun of CC and Brad Penny and the availability of good BBQ in New York.  (The Dinosaur BBQ on 125th St. and 12th Ave. is no more, btw. Just so you know...) it is possible that Mr. Jenks has discovered some favored eateries as well in the Fens.

    Still, injuries are one thing and suppoedly healthy catchers are is another.  The period of adjustment for Salty has taken longer - in calling games and holding runners - than we wanted to admit.  Nothing we can do about it - it is spilt milk on spelt bread. 

    The real question is - what happens now?   Has Salty developed to the point where the staff can perform to the best of its ability?   Can he and Tek find some hits?

    This weekend will tell us all we need to know about the first third of the season and the need for adjustments.

    No predictions, no 20/20 hindsight, no whining on my part. Tito can only design a maximum of three lineups for this weekend. That's a relief.

    And I am keeping an eye on the scoreboard - looking for the Rays v. Orioles this weekend and not having a very good feeling.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    The battle of the bull pen was lost this winter by Theo.

    He could have went after Fuentes and Downs; both of whom would have been a nice compliment right now with Paps, Bard, Albiers, Aceves, and Hill.

    Instead, he went after guys that no one else wanted in Jenks and Wheeler and held onto Okie and Wake.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]Building a bullpen is fraught with frustration. All middle relievers have their faults - that's why they don't start or close.  It is less of a science than we would think. I suspect that Theo likes the upside of everyone he has picked up, though the possibility for implosions - individually or as a group - remains all too real.  We saw it last year and we are seeing it again.  (Do any of us really go, "Hey, Oki is getting the call! It's Miller Time!")  The initial reaction to signing Wheeler and Jenks was pretty good. In hindsight, one could say that we should have done better.  I made fun of CC and Brad Penny and the availability of good BBQ in New York.  (The Dinosaur BBQ on 125th St. and 12th Ave. is no more, btw. Just so you know...) it is possible that Mr. Jenks has discovered some favored eateries as well in the Fens. Still, injuries are one thing and suppoedly healthy catchers are is another.  The period of adjustment for Salty has taken longer - in calling games and holding runners - than we wanted to admit.  Nothing we can do about it - it is spilt milk on spelt bread.  The real question is - what happens now?   Has Salty developed to the point where the staff can perform to the best of its ability?   Can he and Tek find some hits? This weekend will tell us all we need to know about the first third of the season and the need for adjustments. No predictions, no 20/20 hindsight, no whining on my part. Tito can only design a maximum of three lineups for this weekend. That's a relief. And I am keeping an eye on the scoreboard - looking for the Rays v. Orioles this weekend and not having a very good feeling.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like whining and 20-20 hindsight to me. Isn't a third of the season equal to 54 games and after this weekend they will have played 40?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Varitek was the reason for the last pen meltdown.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]Question how many among us has ever managed a bullpen over the coarse of 162 games(Crickets)....I thought so... Let's look at the reality of the situation... Papelbon & Bard: both have pitch well enough and for the most part have held thier own closing ball games...the end game is non issue... Wheeler & Jenks: Set-up who pitch we the game is tied or were up by a few in the 6th and 7th...both were supposed to be bridges to Bard and Papelbon and serve as high leverage guys to preserve leads late in games when the starters ran out of gas...both struggled to open the year and are now on the DL...Herein lyes our biggest concern and frankly if both don't return to form we're in for a long year and Theo will be very active this July! Hill-OKI-Reyes- Lefty specialist...NOT! None have stepped and been the lefty specialist, Reyes is toiling in AAA, after bombing, OKI's been servicable and Hill has at leats looked promising...all are middle guys, none of them are guys that Francona trust in a close games if he has other options. Entering the year this is the area that was seen as a weakness and still the only real weakness on the staff...my guess is that none will be on the roster come Sept 1st! Aceves-Albers: Middle relievers...both have done well all be it in a small sample size, both are caple of pitching multiple innings and thier job is to come into games where were up buy 5 or down by 3 or 4 and keep it close...Thier guys that make our pen deeper and better, if Jenks and Wheeler pitch to expectation! Wakefield: His job is to be the long man-spot starter, ineffect he's the guy that pitches until his arm falls off to preserve the rest of the pen when we're gettin our hats handed to us and gets up and pitches after legnthy rain delays etc. with an occasional start when the schedule dictates the need for a 6th starter or one of the starting 5 goes down...There's a ton of value in having the luxary of a guy like Wake...the Rays use Sonnestine much the same way. End of the day...for our pen to be a true assest Wheeler and/or Jenks or both in a best case, have to return to form...Otherwise it's 2010 redux where too much weight is placed on the starters and Bard & Papelbon will get over used and by years end be less effective...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]


    I agree with most of this, Bean. But the problem goes beyond Jenks/Wheeler.
    It involves Tito's managing of the pen/starters with minimal margin for error.
    And Bard has not pitched well in high-level situations. This disrupts the entire pen, as someone else has to be taken out of their "role" to help bridge the starters to Paps.

    This rotation is good enough to go 7 frames, hypothetically. That means in winnable games, it's Bard to Paps. I posted Bard's numbers in critical game conditions.

    I never look at pitchers without seeing them thru the pitcher-catcher equation. FWIW, this is the breakdown on Bard. keep in mind it's a short SS. Very short, as is the case for relievers.

    Bard w/Salty: 7.94 ERA  23 PA
    Bard w/Tek0.69 ERA 47 PA

    Last year:
    Bard w/Salty     4.50 ERA  11 PA
    Bard w/VMART: 2.64 ERA  183 PA
    Bard w/Tek  0.48 ERA  66 PA
    Bard w/Cash:    0.00 ERA   25 PA

    Edit: N/I today's game.

    Time will tell if this becomes an issue.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BP Dilemma : Sounds like whining and 20-20 hindsight to me. Isn't a third of the season equal to 54 games and after this weekend they will have played 40?
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    SUMMERof67 doesn't whine. Spend some time here and learn how to read a post.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    In Response to Re: BP Dilemma:
    [QUOTE]Building a bullpen is fraught with frustration. All middle relievers have their faults - that's why they don't start or close.  It is less of a science than we would think. I suspect that Theo likes the upside of everyone he has picked up, though the possibility for implosions - individually or as a group - remains all too real.  We saw it last year and we are seeing it again.  (Do any of us really go, "Hey, Oki is getting the call! It's Miller Time!")  The initial reaction to signing Wheeler and Jenks was pretty good. In hindsight, one could say that we should have done better.  I made fun of CC and Brad Penny and the availability of good BBQ in New York.  (The Dinosaur BBQ on 125th St. and 12th Ave. is no more, btw. Just so you know...) it is possible that Mr. Jenks has discovered some favored eateries as well in the Fens. Still, injuries are one thing and suppoedly healthy catchers are is another.  The period of adjustment for Salty has taken longer - in calling games and holding runners - than we wanted to admit.  Nothing we can do about it - it is spilt milk on spelt bread.  The real question is - what happens now?   Has Salty developed to the point where the staff can perform to the best of its ability?   Can he and Tek find some hits? This weekend will tell us all we need to know about the first third of the season and the need for adjustments. No predictions, no 20/20 hindsight, no whining on my part. Tito can only design a maximum of three lineups for this weekend. That's a relief. And I am keeping an eye on the scoreboard - looking for the Rays v. Orioles this weekend and not having a very good feeling.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    I read it again and have the same reaction. Whining and 20-20 hindsight.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma

    Please indicate where you see whining.
    Please be specific.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: BP Dilemma






    CRICKETS!
     

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