Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    "I would bet my life that this substance never entered my body"
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mro. Show mro's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Big picture, this may be good news for PED testing.  If the suspension were upheld notwithstanding the chain of custody issue, the union would point to this as a reason to resist further testing or harsher penalties.  This result will actually help management resist arguments by the union that testing is unfair in future CBA negotiations.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Fox is reporting Brauns testosterone level was 3 times higher than any previous player. I would say that's too much BP
    Posted by J-BAY


    This by itself infers that the sample was tainted with or inadvertintly contaminated. You need to read the statement from the speech that he just gave. He blamed the media  for being unprofessional and deeming him guilty without due process. Sounds like most on this thread.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mnsoxcat. Show mnsoxcat's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    Does anyone know if whomever leaked his name to ESPN ever been punished?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    "I would bet my life that this substance never entered my body"
    Posted by lowelll


    thats a pretty safe bet isn't it??.... the oldest defense in the book....the best defense is a good offense, even if it's not
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Have any of you folks ever been on jury duty? Sounds to me that many of you don't believe in the concept of " innocent until proven guilty". I see a lot of opinions here based on no evidence.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    What substance causes that much of a spike in testosterone?  I mean, from what little I know, those kind of spikes were last seen in soem East German olympians and Lyle Alzado.  Thats the part of this mystery that makes me lean towards believing Braun's innocence.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    Have any of you folks ever been on jury duty? Sounds to me that many of you don't believe in the concept of " innocent until proven guilty". I see a lot of opinions here baed on no evidence.
    Posted by lowelll


    Reasonable doubt is not no doubt pike.  Common sense needs to prevail at the end of the day.  Is it reasonable to think Braun was tested by a professional, who works in a hospital, and the sample was tainted? The attorney did not argue anything but chain of command. He got off on a technicality. It's the way of the world now. No one accepts responsiblity any more. Do something wrong and it's someone else's fault.  You're entitled to your opinion pike, mine is there is a better chance than not he's guilty. Sorry to say because he was one of fav non red sox players.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Reasonable doubt is not no doubt pike.  Common sense needs to prevail at the end of the day.  Is it reasonable to think Braun was tested by a professional, who works in a hospital, and the sample was tainted? The attorney did not argue anything but chain of command. He got off on a technicality. It's the way of the world now. No one accepts responsiblity any more. Do something wrong and it's someone else's fault.  You're entitled to your opinion pike, mine is there is a better chance than not he's guilty. Sorry to say because he was one of fav non red sox players.  
    Posted by J-BAY


    I don't know J-Bay.  I mean, in order to argue directly that there was tampering, they would have had to have some sort of evidence to introduce.  Short of having hard evidence, there is only the chain to point to.  The reason that the chain of command rules are there is to prevent tampering or mishandling of samples.  If these rules are broken, isn't it implied that tampering/mishandling may have occured? 


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : I don't know J-Bay.  I mean, in order to argue directly that there was tampering, they would have had to have some sort of evidence to introduce.  Short of having hard evidence, there is only the chain to point to.  The reason that the chain of command rules are there is to prevent tampering or mishandling of samples.  If these rules are broken, isn't it implied that tampering/mishandling may have occured? 
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    My understanding is the sample was taken to the home, in a sealed container, and placed somewhere locked, which was testified to by whomever took the sample. I've read a refrigerator but don't know. that's the technicality space, it's not by the CBA book. Was Braun given the benefit of the doubt by the arbitrators, yes. does it ring true to me, no. Braun=PEDS=MVP Coincidence maybe, but I think not. Regardless, he won the appeal, he won't win in the court of public opinion IMO
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    When a statistician looks at a scatter diagram of observations and fits a normal bell-shaped curve to them and sees one observation out of thousands that is three times any of the others, he throws that observation out as being an aberration and most probably due to a sampling error in the procedure. It is like seeing a blood pressure level of 360 over 240.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : My understanding is the sample was taken to the home, in a sealed container and placed somewhere locked, which was testified too by whoever took the sample. I've read a refrigerator but don't know. that's the technicality space, it's not by the CBA book. Was Braun given the benefit of the doubt by the arbitrators, yes.does it ring true to me, no. Braun=PEDS=MVP Coincidence maybe, but I think not
    Posted by J-BAY


    Yeah, I hear ya.  I guess, and maybe you or someone can help me out here, but the thing that makes it seem fishy to me is the absolutely absurd testosterone levels he showed.  I mean, to the best of my knowledge, I didn't think they were designing PEDs like that anymore.  I mean that is straight Alzado/East German typ stuff.  No?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Yeah, I hear ya.  I guess, and maybe you or someone can help me out here, but the thing that makes it seem fishy to me is the absolutely absurd testosterone levels he showed.  I mean, to the best of my knowledge, I didn't think they were designing PEDs like that anymore.  I mean that is straight Alzado/East German typ stuff.  No?
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    I could be wrong, but I believe they know what he was supposedly taking and was given an RX by a DR. It was reported it was a drug to treat gen*tal herpes which I believe would be extremely potent. Anyone??
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    The appeal was a split decision, and the findings of "doping" were upheld as for the sample. "Chain of custody" only means they found an i that wasn't dotted, which was harmless error in a case like this.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortMeade. Show FortMeade's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/140317723.html
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    and???? He's blaming the chemist....what exactly would his motivation be??  Braun's ruining the credibility, reputation and possible livelihood of another human being for doing his job, to save his own.  To not accept responsiblity for your own actions is bad enough, but to deflect the blame on the innocent is worse, much worse.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Did you ever get your blood drawn for a cholesterol analysis and see that they do one every minute in the clinic and must check your name and DOB first and do the label correctly and computer and / or paper entry over and over every minute for hours.  You don't dare talk to them and ruin their concentration. It seems very plausible to me that they might slip up once in awhile. A mistake by a technician wouldn't warrant the death chair or destroy their credibility but they are only human and mistakes can be made.

    Why does the forum one day call the Red Sox medical staff and Mass General Hospital completely inept and the next day say that this Montreal Clinic never makes a mistake. Isn't that inconsistent? It seems that many have opinions that are automatically against authority figures. For example:

    John Henry / Ownership is always wrong / cheap/ disloyal
    Theo was totally inept
    Tito was wrong on every baseball decision and a terrible leader
    All Red Sox coaches are pitiful and make wrong decisions.
    Ticket prices are too high.
    All commentators are terrible to listen to.
    The media has less facts and intelligence than Joe Six-Pack does.
    Peter Gammons is a fool.
    Bud Selig is incompetent on every decision.
    Umpires are blind and never get a call right.

    One exception: Negative Radio talk show hosts are always right.

    The list can go on and on but it is obvious that authority figures are disliked because they are in charge, no reason or logic is necessary.
     
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    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Allegedly placed in refigerator.  There are also reports that it sat un-refrigerated for over 12 hours.  Also, that the sampler was in such a hurry that he may have mis-lapeled the samples.  Do I believe any or all of this? Not really, but once the process is tainted, everything is tainted. ALso, look at the actual results.  3 times higher that anyone has ever tested, yet none of his other samples ever tested abnormal.  You have extensive history in the medical field.  Ever have a false positive test?
    Posted by mnsoxcat


    I agree soxcat.  Once the chain of custody was broken, the samples become invalid, IMO, and should have been thrown out and Braun should have been retested immediately.  It might be a technicality, but those technicalities have to be in place and they have to be upheld.

    I don't know whether Braun is innocent or not.   The extremely high levels of testosterone lead me to believe that something was amiss in the sample, although I could just as easily be wrong.  Anyway, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see something to lead me to believe otherwise.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    There is no issue of a tampered with test, or a swapped test, or anything else. It's the same as if you owe the Government taxes, and don't do it by the 15th, you get charged fees on top of it.

    This only fuels my conspiracy theory that baseball engineered this. How easy to tell this part time courier to just "accidentally" be 15 minutes late. Then, problem of having your MVP test positive: solved.

    If MLB conspired with aribtrators to cover up Braun's positive test, why uncover it in the first place? It would have been easier for MLB to suppress the test result entirely, rather than let the fans and media believe for months (and realistically, forever) that a reigning MVP was on steroids. Furthermore, MLB wouldn't have used a technicality as the reason for overturning the suspension. It would have opted for the false positive defense.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Those lawyers earned their money. Chain of custody is something always beaten to death in court cases. I am surprised the MLB was so stupid.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    If I'm not mistaken, Braun has not been found innocent. He should stop squawking about his innocence and a 'fatally flawed' system after the fact that it's been overturned. Just play ball now.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    The evidence of guilt or innocence seem equal. Seriously does valltrex have testosterone in it?
    With fielder gone, he wont see as many meatballs.. Where do i get a kemp"real mvp" shirt???


    Love the east german references-the she men ruling the pool in the 70's
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Yeah, I hear ya.  I guess, and maybe you or someone can help me out here, but the thing that makes it seem fishy to me is the absolutely absurd testosterone levels he showed.  I mean, to the best of my knowledge, I didn't think they were designing PEDs like that anymore.  I mean that is straight Alzado/East German typ stuff.  No?
    Posted by SpacemanEephus



    Space,

    Testsoterone levels are all the rage right now, in 2012.  Men of all ages are testing for lower levels than men 20 years ago, who were already recording lower levels than their fathers.  This is not the Lyle Alzado steroid issue.  There are natural supplements that will cause testosterone levels to rise (or so they claim) along with HGH and straight up synthesized testosterone that can be ingested and injected. 

    For Braun to say that there is no way this substance entered his body may be technically accurate.  The T levels may not ave been due to injecting testosterone.  By the same token, it is entirely possible he has found a way to increase his T levels with substances that are not (yet) banned.  So, again he may be technically telling the truth on that.

    I have a problem with the latest report, which seems to contradict what Braun said earlier, when he didn't want to falsely accuse the courier, having been falsely accused himself.  The  linked article seems to imply he is accusing the courier of tainting his sample.  BS, one way or the other.

    I predict Ryan Braun hits between .275-.280 and hits around 20 HRs this season.  And in my mind that will NOT be a coincidence. And I hope he is tested at least twice throughout the season. IMO, he is just another overpaid athlete trying to cheat an imperfect system of policing people who do not have the personal standards that prevent them from cheating in the first place.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dirt LaMudd. Show Dirt LaMudd's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Space, Testsoterone levels are all the rage right now, in 2012.  Men of all ages are testing for lower levels than men 20 years ago, who were already recording lower levels than their fathers.  This is not the Lyle Alzado steroid issue.  There are natural supplements that will cause testosterone levels to rise (or so they claim) along with HGH and straight up synthesized testosterone that can be ingested and injected.  For Braun to say that there is no way this substance entered his body may be technically accurate.  The T levels may not ave been due to injecting testosterone.  By the same token, it is entirely possible he has found a way to increase his T levels with substances that are not (yet) banned.  So, again he may be technically telling the truth on that. I have a problem with the latest report, which seems to contradict what Braun said earlier, when he didn't want to falsely accuse the courier, having been falsely accused himself.  The  linked article seems to imply he is accusing the courier of tainting his sample.  BS, one way or the other. I predict Ryan Braun hits between .275-.280 and hits around 20 HRs this season.  And in my mind that will NOT be a coincidence. And I hope he is tested at least twice throughout the season. IMO, he is just another overpaid athlete trying to cheat an imperfect system of policing people who do not have the personal standards that prevent them from cheating in the first place.
    Posted by parhunter1



    Amen.

    The cheats are always one step ahead.

    At least until they are caught.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from saintJ. Show saintJ's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Amen. The cheats are always one step ahead. At least until they are caught.
    Posted by Dirt LaMudd


    Until they are caught?  You sure about that?
     
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