Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]Those lawyers earned their money. Chain of custody is something always beaten to death in court cases. I am surprised the MLB was so stupid.
    Posted by jackbu[/QUOTE]
    Exactly. If a guy confesses to murder but his lawyer is not present, chances are that confession gets thrown out and he walks. That's the way it is.

    My strong hunch is that Braun is, in the immortal words of Mark Slackmeyer, "Guilty, guilty, guilty!" But the panel made the correct decision.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In response to "Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Reasonable doubt is not no doubt pike.  Common sense needs to prevail at the end of the day.  Is it reasonable to think Braun was tested by a professional, who works in a hospital, and the sample was tainted? The attorney did not argue anything but chain of command. He got off on a technicality. It's the way of the world now. No one accepts responsiblity any more. Do something wrong and it's someone else's fault.  You're entitled to your opinion pike, mine is there is a better chance than not he's guilty. Sorry to say because he was one of fav non red sox players.   Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE] JBay I think you meant chain of custody of evidence, his lawyer was able to get the sample thrown out. He is lucky and should keep his mouth shut. Lets see what he does this year statistically.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    What concerns me with all these performance enhancing PEDs/ steroids/HGHis that I would be sacred as aplayer to take this stuff, because of the health ramifications down the line. When I hear about these middle aged athletes coming down with cancers and all types of health issues, I sometimes wonder if it had something to do with what they were putting into their bodies when they were playing ball. I even wiorry about myself because of all the Anti Anthrax injections that the military gave us when were were going overseas and in Kuwait before the war started. Some of these medications they gave us were not approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The military is a good test sample for the drug companies as well.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    So many opinions based on a hunch and no evidence. It really isn't mandatory to post an opinion on this thread if you have insufficient evidence. In that event, why not abstain? I can see a pattern in this forum of who likes to sound off without doing any thinking. It is almost predictable.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    I am getting tired of athletes who cheat. Several years ago when Arod had 20 homeruns in April did you not wonder if something was up there. what did he hit about 50 that year. When I see players put up inflated numbers I often wonder if they are not doing something they should not be. I guess we will seewhat he puts up this year in the way of statistics (Braun). n response to "Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension": [QUOTE]So many opinions based on a hunch and no evidence. It really isn't mandatory to post an opinion on this thread if you have insufficient evidence. In that event, why not abstain? I can see a pattern in this forum of who likes to sound off without doing any thinking. It is almost predictable. Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    ARod confessed that he cheated, so did Pettite and Giambi. Braun insists that he did not and there is no evidence to prove it. That's the difference. Opinions without evidence are worthless.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    HIs lawyer got him off on a chain of custody in the evidence issue, not that the test results were wrong, just on the handling of the sample. He should keep his mouth shut and stay low. fIn response to "Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension": [QUOTE]ARod confessed that he cheated, so did Pettite and Giambi. Braun insists that he did not and there is no evidence to prove it. That's the difference. Opinions without evidence are worthless. Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]HIs lawyer got him off on a chain of custody in the evidence issue, not that the test results were wrong, just on the handling of the sample. He should keep his mouth shut and stay low. fIn response to "Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension":
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    Agreed AL....to come out guns drawn was the wrong way to handle it, IMO. Say you're glad its over, show up for ST, put it behind you and leave it at that. He may not be a proven or admitted PED user or have to serve the 50 game suspension, but in the court of public opinion, I doubt he's as fortunate. He claims he was falsely accused, then accuses the chemist of tampering. Lost all respect for the guy. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    The court of public opinion is not privy to the facts that the panel had. The public is just reading columnists who also aren't privy to the facts. Braun came out shooting because he feels that he is innocent and wringly accused. Give him a lie detector test. The media is not the judge.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]Have any of you folks ever been on jury duty? Sounds to me that many of you don't believe in the concept of " innocent until proven guilty". I see a lot of opinions here based on no evidence.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Lowelll, 

    That seems to be the nature of many opinions. I hope many of these folks that are so judgemental never have to go to court under suspicion of committing a crime. I was in the Leasing Real Estate business years ago back on the East Coast and although I watched myself very carefully and never desciminated against anyone I was almost sued twice for racial descrimination. 

    Our society has become very litigious with ambulance chasing law firms advertising on TV nightly and many in the public have become overly suspicious to the point of finding conspiracies everywhere. 

    Hetchinspete. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Agreed AL....to come out guns drawn was the wrong way to handle it, IMO. Say you're glad its over, show up for ST, put it behind you and leave it at that. He may not be a proven or admitted PED user or have to serve the 50 game suspension, but in the court of public opinion, I doubt he's as fortunate. He claims he was falsely accused, then accuses the chemist of tampering. Lost all respect for the guy. 
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    J-Bay, 

    You're losing respect for someone trying to defend himself. Hopefully you'll never wrongly be accused and haveto defend yourself. Whether or not Braun is guilty he has the right to defend himself which is all he is doing. I find it impossible to believe you wouldn't do the same put in the same place. 

    Hetchinspete.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from billpar. Show billpar's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    There's a good article in Saturday's NY Times's sports section.  According to the article the collector left the stadium at 5PM.  The last FEDEX plane left Milwaukee at 5PM.  Even if he dropped the sample off at a FEDEX facility, it would never have been shipped off to Montreal.  According to the article the sample would have been left at the facility until it could have been shipped or in some drop box.  The collector took the most prudent action.  He also did not break the chain of custody, since he is the first line of custody, then FEDEX, then the lab in Montreal.  It would only be broken if he deviated from any of the aforementioned. Another, ramification could be that even if the sample got to Montreal on Sunday, would the lab do any testing on Sunday?  If it was even open.  Access the article and read it.  I would venture a guess that the only labs that operate on a Sunday are in hospitals and test results are needed for a medical emergency.  Don't think Ryan Braun's sample falls into that category.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Why are there so few of these types of labs? Is the test that more complex than what is done in every major hospital in the country?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : J-Bay,  You're losing respect for someone trying to defend himself. Hopefully you'll never wrongly be accused and haveto defend yourself. Whether or not Braun is guilty he has the right to defend himself which is all he is doing. I find it impossible to believe you wouldn't do the same put in the same place.  Hetchinspete.
    Posted by Hetchinspete[/QUOTE]

    defending himself of something I believe he is guilty of Pete. Article I read this morning, a chemist said while it's hard to use the word impossible in relation to the sample being tainted,  it was as close to impossible as you can get. Defending yourself to that extent, when you not only know you're guilty, then to blame another who is innocent is inexcusable .... Cheating is bad enough, lying then blaming another is worse. I have no respect, none
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : defending himself of something I beleive he is guilty of. Article I read this morning said a chemist said while it's hard to use the word impossible in relation to the sample being tainted, he said it was as close to impossible as you can get. Defending yourself to that extent, when you not only know youre guilty, then to blame another who is innocent.... I have no respect, none
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    But Braun's actions are based on what he thinks about his guilt. You opinion is irrelevant. If he thinks that he is innocent then what he does is on him, you are not pertinent. You seem IMO to have some deep ulterior motive here that you prefer to hide.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE] from ESPN.com: NEW YORK -- National League MVP Ryan Braun 's 50-game suspension was overturned Thursday by baseball arbitrator Shyam Das, the first time a baseball player successfully challenged a drug-related penalty in a grievance. Braun The decision was announced Thursday by the Major League Baseball Players Association, one day before the 28-year-old outfielder was due to report to spring training with the Milwaukee Brewers . Braun tested positive in October for elevated testosterone, and ESPN revealed the positive test in December. No reasoning was given for Thursday's decision. "Today the arbitration panel announced its decision, by a 2-1 vote, to sustain Ryan Braun's grievance challenging his 50-game suspension by the commissioner's office," a statement from the players' association said. MLB executive vice president Rob Manfred and union head Michael Weiner are part of the arbitration panel, and management and the union almost always split their votes, leaving Das, the independent panel member, to make the decision. Manfred said management disagreed with the decision by Das. It is the first time a drug suspension has been overturned in a grievance, baseball officials said.
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    We all know there are a ton of PED's out there that MLB knows very little about as far as increasing ones ability on the baseball field.  Ryan Braun is one of my favorite players who I would trade for in a heartbeat if he became available.

    My point is, we can't try and snag a player for anything he puts in his mouth or injects without any real proof.  Controlling PED's is still close to impossible other than what we have learned in the past.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    JBay times have changed and everything is a spin off instead of admitting to something and being a man about it, it easier to spin everything off like Braun did. JBay on another note Iamt not comfortable at all withour starting staff how about you. I guesswewill have to see response to "Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Agreed AL....to come out guns drawn was the wrong way to handle it, IMO. Say you're glad its over, show up for ST, put it behind you and leave it at that. He may not be a proven or admitted PED user or have to serve the 50 game suspension, but in the court of public opinion, I doubt he's as fortunate. He claims he was falsely accused, then accuses the chemist of tampering. Lost all respect for the guy.  Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]The court of public opinion is not privy to the facts that the panel had. The public is just reading columnists who also aren't privy to the facts. Braun came out shooting because he feels that he is innocent and wringly accused. Give him a lie detector test. The media is not the judge.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Speaking of facts, how do you now what he feels? Maybe he feels his masking scheme did not work as expected and now it's time to resort to emergency Plan B; however, it's just a guess, no more tangible or pertinent than yours. Ditto any opinions and possible related motives here; J. Bay's, yours, mine, or anyone else's. 

    Getting back to facts; the evidence and science in this incident is not in dispute here. What is the issue is that the agreed protocol as defined at the time was not met, hence the suspension was overturned via inadmissable criteria, i.e, a technicality. Sometimes a step back is needed before taking a step forward; the OJ trial comes to mind. Here's guessing changes shall occur to avoid a repeat. A good start would be to send FedExs on a Tuesday instead of a Friday.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    The science by any statistician says that an observation that is 300% higher than any other among 10,000 previous observations is an anamoly or aberration and is flawed. It is normally thrown out.

    If there is no admissable evidence and nothing to go by then why is this forum 90% against Braun? Shouldn't the ratio in that case be 50-50? Does everyone who hates Braun studied all of the evidence?  Why should anyone be so opinionated without evidence? Do you have any theories? Is it his race or religion. I see a track record of that in this forum.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Facts are the Players Union could not afford to have one of their own, an MVP no less, go down for a positive drug test. They free'd their man on a technicality, and I believe he is as guilty as they come.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Yep, always go after the authority figure. Never side with the player. You present no evidence - just an opinion.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Mirrored response.

    You should go back to being Your-Echo as the only one listening to you is you.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]The science by any statistician says that an observation that is 300% higher than any other among 10,000 previous observations is an anamoly or aberration and is flawed. It is normally thrown out. If there is no admissable evidence and nothing to go by then why is this forum 90% against Braun? Shouldn't the ratio in that case be 50-50? Does everyone who hates Braun studied all of the evidence?  Why should anyone be so opinionated without evidence? Do you have any theories? Is it his race or religion. I see a track record of that in this forum.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]


    Since I've been a statistician for 33 yrs, this is often true, but when the entire community involved in this field claims the results, short of tampering (which , given the fact the sample was double sealed, is highly unlikely), is iron clad, I find the outlier explanation doesn't apply.

    And, since I'm Jewish (as is Braun), I could be sympathetic to the race card; once again, I don't think it applies, and is often an excuse.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension : Since I've been a statistician for 33 yrs, this is often true, but when the entire community involved in this field claims the results, short of tampering (which , given the fact the sample was double sealed, is highly unlikely), is iron clad, I find the outlier explanation doesn't apply. And, since I'm Jewish (as is Braun), I could be sympathetic to the race card; once again, I don't think it applies, and is often an excuse.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]
    Agreed. I'll confess I didn't even know Braun was Jewish until recently.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Breaking News: Ryan Braun has won his appeal for suspension

    Could it be that the few who are so set against Theo and Braun are against them for their religion? They apparently haven't read much at all about the Braun case and don't believe the premise of innocent until proven guilty.
     
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