BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from steven11. Show steven11's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is tought to look back and do the would have should have.  But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

    Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Looking back now did the sox really need Peavy?  The answer is no.

    Webster and the other 6th or lower starters all stunk last year.

    Buch was hurt, and looked weak in the WS.

    Doubront hit a wall in August.

    Lackey slipped a bit.

    Dempster declined.

    Only Lester continued doing very well.

    Having Peavy helped a lot. If we didn't trade for Peavy, we'd have picked up someone else- and who knows at what cost.

    In hindsight, Peavy did not do as great as he could have, but he was steady and helped.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think at the time we did moon or we may never have finished in the position we did.  When we traded for Peavy it was obvious Dempster was unreliable and Clay needed more time before returning.  Peavy did pretty well in my opinion and helped us put the Rays away as well.  He should also have a better season in 2014 than Dempster so I'm not real upset with the move.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is tought to look back and do the would have should have.  But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

    Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.

    [/QUOTE]

    They got that big lead after they got Peavy. At the trading deadline, the Sox had just a half-game lead. So you can't simply say the Sox still would have won by a large margin w/o the trade. The Sox needed an extra starter down the stretch, and there no guarantee that Workman would have stayed effective.

    Peavy was good enough and Peavy averaged 6.4 innings per start, which is very good in this day and age, so he helped the bullpen too, along with giving the Sox flexibility as we've noted. Even if Workman stayed in the rotation and was effective, but didn't go as deep, it would have taxed middle relief, which already was struggling.

    The move gave the Sox that extra veteran starter. Workman got experience in the pen, even though he struggled at times, but he was lights out in the postseason.

    It's a slam dunk that getting Peavy was the right move.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    To all those that were his detractors due to his not delivering to expectations last year. There's no need to apologize, but perhaps one might chose to use less defaming terms when expressing thier disappointment. In baseball many of us are conditioned to use terms like "bum" to express our disappointment in a player, manager or umpirer's performance. We boo in full throat with one voice at the park to express our disapointment when the results are less than. Often though, we do so with out all of the facts. Cleary in the case of Ryan Dempster we the fans through no fault of our own were in the dark about his personal life struggles and as such, it does lessen the burden of our collective venom. It doesn't however excuse those that chose to attack his character. On the field he was a bum, off the field he was a leader. 

    I was against the signing from day one, even though I am a huge pitching advocate.

    Dempster did meet my "expectations", but it appears mine were lower than many here.

    I don't think I've ever called any Sox player a bum. Dempster was not a bum- on or off the field. My only beef was the salary paid for the performance received. Now, that issue is resolved.

    I wish the very best for Ryan and his family. He's a classy guy that deserves some time off.

     



    I was on board with the same thoughts moon.  I couldn't believe the signing and never thought for a minute it would help us in the win/loss column.  In the clubhouse and off the field Dempster was a class act but he simply didn't have much left in the tank.  When you begin to age and lose a couple of MPH on your fastball you need to learn how to hit spots to have any chance of extending your career.  Throwing balls down the center of the plate that batters are sitting on when your off speed stuff isn't working will get you in trouble almost every time.

     

     


    There were two major reasons why the Sox signed Dempster. One reason being that they needed a guy who was going to give them innings at the back of the rotation with the durability of Doubront, Buchholz & Lackey (coming off surgery) all in question.  Dempster gave them 29 starts & actually pitched well when they needed him most (After Clay's injury - mentioned on this thread).  

     

    Reason number two & maybe just as important, they wanted a veteran professional presence in the rotation who was the "anti-Beckett" off the field.  Considering the other veteran options available & the fact that Dempster was part of a Championship team, it's tough to argue that the Sox didn't make the right decision.  Maybe they could've received better on field production from the kids, as some have mentioned,  but at best it would have been shortsighted to bank on the likes of Workman & Webster last winter. 

     



    jasko,

     

    Adding Dempster to stabilize the staff was probably a positive but probably not really necessary with Farrell and Nieves on board to keep everyone focused.  Like I said before considering our situation going into the season the FO was very fortunate.  I would have never expected or added the aging Dempster at 26.5mil for two years to a mix that already included.

    ... Lackey coming off surgery and previous struggles

    ... Lester was struggling going into the season 

    ... Doubront was still very raw and inconsistent

    ... Clay was a sure bet to go on the DL at some point

    It was a huge gamble that only paid off because everyone above improved including Clay before going on the DL again.  Peavy was also a necessary move but possibly cost us our best defensive SS ever who may have finally been maturing offensively.  Time will tell what Bogy does but we probably wouldn't even be talking about Drew today if Clay had stayed healthy or we had a better contribution from a guy like Dempster.

     



    Who would you have added?  They needed to add someone.  Maybe "you" didn't think the Sox needed to add a veteran presence because of Farrell & Nieves, but the Sox Front Office did.  It worked out well.  I don't see how signing Dempster was a "huge gamble," when you consider what was available.  

     

    As far as Iglesias goes, he wasn't part of the long term plan.  They feel they sold high on him, but obviously time will tell.  

     



    With the state of our staff I would have gambled on Anibal Sanchez for three more years and 4 or 5mil more.  If Dempster had a few more productive outings I doubt we trade Iggy because we would have been in a better position.  Workman probably would have been a viable option but with Demp struggling and Clay on the DL we needed insurance to stay in the race.

    The Sox did sell high on Iggy but as far as him not being part of the future that was just a smoke screen for the press because we needed pitching.  Don't forget Iggy was playing two positions like a pro and beginning to hit so I doubt our FO wanted to lose him.  Our FO doesn't even know as of today whether Bogy is the answer at SS, or if Middy will improve. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Please.  This makes absolutely ZERO sense.

     

    First, fans like to undervalue Dempster because he did not throw out Cy Young numbers in 2013 like Sanchez actually did.  But let’s not pretend Sanchez was looking like a Cy Young candidate EVER before 2013.  His previous five ERA+ totals were 108, 106, 117, 111, and 78.  Dempster’s were 124, 81, 110, 122, 154.    Sanchez had the age advantage, but let’s not pretend he was looking like some sort of slam dunk to be worth his deal.  Personally, I think he has ZERO chance despite the incredible first year.  Expect a massive regression from him soon.

     

    Second, anyone saying the Sox were FORCED into some sort of position of having to get rid of Iglesias to make up for Dempster’s shortcomings is crazy.   Remember this very important fact – DETROIT DID NOT HAVE TO BE IN THE DEAL!  Peavy came from the White Sox, not the Tigers.  Certainly, given the state of both the Red Sox and White Sox farm systems, the Red Sox could have found another prospect that the White Sox would have gladly accepted.  They are pretty desperate for an actual farm system.  After all this is the team that took Brandon Jacobs from us, and his stock has been plummeting faster than a 90’s dot com start up.   However, the White Sox obviously did not want Iglesias (possibly due to Alexei Ramirez and his contract?), otherwise Detroit would not have been involved at all.  But as the Red Sox clearly preferred to deal Iglesias – most likely due to the presence of Bogaerts – they had to find the intermediate team to make the deal happen.  

    If the White Sox were so adamant in their demands for Peavy, it is highly unlikely the target was solely Avisail Garcia and his #74 ranking on the pre-2013 Baseball America list or nothing.  It’s not like Garcia is Mike Trout.  If it came down to giving up a guy the Red Sox did not want to surrender, why did they go the route of weakening the MLB roster, as opposed to a better prospect than Garcia, one who may not even pan out?  They did have four names ranked higher than Garcia (Bogaerts, Bradley, Barnes and Webster) on the BA list.  Why give up a guy many insist the Red Sox deeply wanted to keep in Iglesias when certainly Webster alone would have accomplished the exact same thing?

    Also, Iglesais’ offense is a complete house of cards, as has been proven by secondary metrics time and time again.  He is not in the majors because of his bat.  Even Detroit knew this and hit him ninth…

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    Some numbers to ponder...

     

    86 Starting pitchers have 300+ IP since 2012.

    ERA-

    14) 81  A Sanchez

    28) 88  Peavy

    37) 95  Dempster

    53) 102 Lester

    71) 109 Doubront

     

    WHIP

    12) 1.12  Peavy

    33) 1.21  A Sanchez

    59) 1.32  Dempster

    65) 1.34  Lester

    81) 1.41  Doubront

     

    xFIP

    11) 3.27  A Sanchez

    42) 3.86  Lester

    53) 3.98  Doubront

    54) 3.99 Dempster

    56) 4.01  Peavy

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is tought to look back and do the would have should have.  But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

    Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.

    [/QUOTE]

    Now batting ninth for the Detriot Tigers, short stop Jose Iglesias, pitching for the World Series champion Boston Red Sox Jake Peavy.....I think I like the latter v the former....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is tought to look back and do the would have should have.  But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

    Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is not tangible proof it was a bad trade. Igelias stopped hitting in June. The Sox sold high and got a solid starter. Remove Peavy out of the equation the Sox probably end up with the WC because not so much the innings Peavy pitched the innings the Wrights, Webster, etc didn't pitch. Now if not for Peavy the Sox would have 4 starting pitchers(one of which who may be an injury concern) and three starters on the left said of the infield without resigning Drew. The more you break down the trade makes more and more sense.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to steven11's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is tought to look back and do the would have should have.  But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

    Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is not tangible proof it was a bad trade. Igelias stopped hitting in June. The Sox sold high and got a solid starter. Remove Peavy out of the equation the Sox probably end up with the WC because not so much the innings Peavy pitched the innings the Wrights, Webster, etc didn't pitch. Now if not for Peavy the Sox would have 4 starting pitchers(one of which who may be an injury concern) and three starters on the left said of the infield without resigning Drew. The more you break down the trade makes more and more sense.

    [/QUOTE]

    And to add, the Red Sox the final two months were stronger offensively with Middlebrooks at 3B and Drew at SS than with Iggy at either of the positions.

    Aug-Sept stats:

    Drew: 25-R, 14-2B, 2-3B, 6 HR, 29-RBI, .291/.367/.497/.864

    Middlebrooks: 22-R, 5-2B, 8 HR, 24 RBI, .276/.329/.476/.805

    Iggy: 12-R, 6-2B, 2-HR, 10-RBI, .259/.306/.348/.654

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    Look who may be taking Ryan's place...

    Mariners, Red Sox In Talks With Chris Capuano By  Steve Adams [February 18 at 6:20pm CST]

    6:20pm: The Red Sox are also talking with Capuano, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Boston recently learned that rotation option Ryan Dempster would take the year off, reducing the team's depth but also relieving it of the obligation to pay him.

     

    Of course, the Red Sox are likely not in a position to promise Capuano a regular turn in the rotation. As Rosenthal tweets, the team is interested in a "swing type" pitcher that is capable of throwing both as a starter and in relief.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    In response to steven11's comment:

     

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

    Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

     

    I didn't think so.

    This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

     




    It is tought to look back and do the would have should have.  But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

     

    Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.

     



    This is not tangible proof it was a bad trade. Igelias stopped hitting in June. The Sox sold high and got a solid starter. Remove Peavy out of the equation the Sox probably end up with the WC because not so much the innings Peavy pitched the innings the Wrights, Webster, etc didn't pitch. Now if not for Peavy the Sox would have 4 starting pitchers(one of which who may be an injury concern) and three starters on the left said of the infield without resigning Drew. The more you break down the trade makes more and more sense.

     

     

    Bosox,

    I get the agnst that many Sox fans have with the Peavy trade. Though many often overlook the dynamics that were at play when the deal was made and minimze the impact his aquistion had on the fortunes of the team.

    My guess is that Cherington also would have liked nothing more than for Buccholz to have been healthy and held on to Iglesias (a once in a generation defensive SS). Although given the injuries to Miller, Hanrahan & Bailey along with Morales. Cherington more than likely would have had to acquire a couple of arms for the pen Which as we know is a crap shoot (Thornton).

    Lets also not forget that because Buccholz returned who along with Peavy, Lester & Lackey comprised our postseason rotation. This giving them the depth needed and made it possible to move Doubront into the bullpen to servevas the longman in the postseason. Where he came up huge. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the job Workman and Doubront did in the postseason qualified both for the unsung heros of our championship run. 

    In hindsight, IMHO he still makes the deal given the outcome. 

    Sans the aquisition of Peavy, Doubront's in the rotation come postseasn and it was more likely that Workman would have been called upon to start and fill the void left by Buccholz (Had he not returned). Who after being called up in July, gave the Sox three straight quality starts one of which was against Tampa...in all three he pitched into the 7th and gave up 2 runs or less. That said, another benefit to the acquisition of Peavy was allowing the Sox the luxary of moving Workman into the pen. where due to injuries the teams depth was severely compromised. Which is not as easy as some would like to think it is, after a couple of rocky outings, and a tuneup in Pawtucket, Workman quickly became one of the go to guys, late in games. As we saw in the postseason Farrel didn't blink to give him the ball with the game on the line. 

    Looking forward, it'll be interesting to see what role Workman fills in 2014 and beyond? I would think he'd start the year in AAA and pitch every 5 days and continue his development, building his innings, pitch count. To ready himself for the workload required of a major league starter? I'm bullish on the kid...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Look who may be taking Ryan's place...

    Mariners, Red Sox In Talks With Chris Capuano By  Steve Adams [February 18 at 6:20pm CST]

    6:20pm: The Red Sox are also talking with Capuano, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Boston recently learned that rotation option Ryan Dempster would take the year off, reducing the team's depth but also relieving it of the obligation to pay him.

     

    Of course, the Red Sox are likely not in a position to promise Capuano a regular turn in the rotation. As Rosenthal tweets, the team is interested in a "swing type" pitcher that is capable of throwing both as a starter and in relief.

    [/QUOTE]


    Could be a decent signing if it happens. Never hurts to have some insurance.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Of course, the Red Sox are likely not in a position to promise Capuano a regular turn in the rotation. As Rosenthal tweets, the team is interested in a "swing type" pitcher that is capable of throwing both as a starter and in relief.

    [/QUOTE]

    He actually might be a very solid pickup. Capuano on the whole isn't a good starter. And I am concerned he could end up blocking our young guys. But underlying his generally unimpressive numbers are some interesting ones.

    He has basically been a starting pitcher the last 3 seasons in the bigs. A consistently positive WAR pitcher his whole career.

    This past season, it was almost all about bad luck. A BABIP of 334. A very low strand rate of 68.9%.

    On the other hand, a great K/BB rate of 3.38. An xFIP of 3.67. His best GB% by far of his career. He had the best velocity on his fast ball his last 5 seasons, by far.

    He could be a very livable starting pitcher. Steamer and Oliver project him as a 500 starting pitcher.

    With that said, what I really would want him for is a loogy out of the pen. His splits are enormous[nearly 200 points in career]. OPS against lefties of 619 career and 585 last 2 seasons. The Dodgers used him in that role in this years playoffs and he didn't give up a hit in 3 innings.

    I see a lot of value for somebody potentially on the cheap. A safety net starter to use as a lefty in the pen mostly.

    Depends on the price.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    Bosox,

    I get the agnst that many Sox fans have with the Peavy trade. Though many often overlook the dynamics that were at play when the deal was made and minimze the impact his aquistion had on the fortunes of the team.

    My guess is that Cherington also would have liked nothing more than for Buccholz to have been healthy and held on to Iglesias (a once in a generation defensive SS). Although given the injuries to Miller, Hanrahan & Bailey along with Morales. Cherington more than likely would have had to acquire a couple of arms for the pen Which as we know is a crap shoot (Thornton).

    Lets also not forget that because Buccholz returned who along with Peavy, Lester & Lackey comprised our postseason rotation. This giving them the depth needed and made it possible to move Doubront into the bullpen to servevas the longman in the postseason. Where he came up huge. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the job Workman and Doubront did in the postseason qualified both for the unsung heros of our championship run. 

    In hindsight, IMHO he still makes the deal given the outcome. 

    Sans the aquisition of Peavy, Doubront's in the rotation come postseasn and it was more likely that Workman would have been called upon to start and fill the void left by Buccholz (Had he not returned). Who after being called up in July, gave the Sox three straight quality starts one of which was against Tampa...in all three he pitched into the 7th and gave up 2 runs or less. That said, another benefit to the acquisition of Peavy was allowing the Sox the luxary of moving Workman into the pen. where due to injuries the teams depth was severely compromised. Which is not as easy as some would like to think it is, after a couple of rocky outings, and a tuneup in Pawtucket, Workman quickly became one of the go to guys, late in games. As we saw in the postseason Farrel didn't blink to give him the ball with the game on the line. 

    Looking forward, it'll be interesting to see what role Workman fills in 2014 and beyond? I would think he'd start the year in AAA and pitch every 5 days and continue his development, building his innings, pitch count. To ready himself for the workload required of a major league starter? I'm bullish on the kid...

     

    I know it's hard to predict what might have happened, but had we not obtained Peavy, Doubront would have been given more starts and IP.

    He clearly hit a wall in August (as I thought he would), but bounced back rather nicely later on. Who knows what might have happened has Doubie been given 20-30 more IP, including the playoffs.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    He actually might be a very solid pickup. Capuano on the whole isn't a good starter. And I am concerned he could end up blocking our young guys. But underlying his generally unimpressive numbers are some interesting ones.

    He has basically been a starting pitcher the last 3 seasons in the bigs. A consistently positive WAR pitcher his whole career.

    This past season, it was almost all about bad luck. A BABIP of 334. A very low strand rate of 68.9%.

    On the other hand, a great K/BB rate of 3.38. An xFIP of 3.67. His best GB% by far of his career. He had the best velocity on his fast ball his last 5 seasons, by far.

    He could be a very livable starting pitcher. Steamer and Oliver project him as a 500 starting pitcher.

    With that said, what I really would want him for is a loogy out of the pen. His splits are enormous[nearly 200 points in career]. OPS against lefties of 619 career and 585 last 2 seasons. The Dodgers used him in that role in this years playoffs and he didn't give up a hit in 3 innings.

    I see a lot of value for somebody potentially on the cheap. A safety net starter to use as a lefty in the pen mostly.

    Depends on the price.

     

    It might also depend on him not wanting a "swingman" role and signing with a team that gives him a better chance to be in the rotation.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bosox,

    I get the agnst that many Sox fans have with the Peavy trade. Though many often overlook the dynamics that were at play when the deal was made and minimze the impact his aquistion had on the fortunes of the team.

    My guess is that Cherington also would have liked nothing more than for Buccholz to have been healthy and held on to Iglesias (a once in a generation defensive SS). Although given the injuries to Miller, Hanrahan & Bailey along with Morales. Cherington more than likely would have had to acquire a couple of arms for the pen Which as we know is a crap shoot (Thornton).

    Lets also not forget that because Buccholz returned who along with Peavy, Lester & Lackey comprised our postseason rotation. This giving them the depth needed and made it possible to move Doubront into the bullpen to servevas the longman in the postseason. Where he came up huge. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the job Workman and Doubront did in the postseason qualified both for the unsung heros of our championship run. 

    In hindsight, IMHO he still makes the deal given the outcome. 

    Sans the aquisition of Peavy, Doubront's in the rotation come postseasn and it was more likely that Workman would have been called upon to start and fill the void left by Buccholz (Had he not returned). Who after being called up in July, gave the Sox three straight quality starts one of which was against Tampa...in all three he pitched into the 7th and gave up 2 runs or less. That said, another benefit to the acquisition of Peavy was allowing the Sox the luxary of moving Workman into the pen. where due to injuries the teams depth was severely compromised. Which is not as easy as some would like to think it is, after a couple of rocky outings, and a tuneup in Pawtucket, Workman quickly became one of the go to guys, late in games. As we saw in the postseason Farrel didn't blink to give him the ball with the game on the line. 

    Looking forward, it'll be interesting to see what role Workman fills in 2014 and beyond? I would think he'd start the year in AAA and pitch every 5 days and continue his development, building his innings, pitch count. To ready himself for the workload required of a major league starter? I'm bullish on the kid...

     

    I know it's hard to predict what might have happened, but had we not obtained Peavy, Doubront would have been given more starts and IP.

    He clearly hit a wall in August (as I thought he would), but bounced back rather nicely later on. Who knows what might have happened has Doubie been given 20-30 more IP, including the playoffs.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon,

    The Peavy acquisition was done so primarily to protect against Buchholz not returning, but also to give them insurance if another starter went down. Peavy was a luxary they could afford. The reality is that they traded thier 2nd best SS prospect, not the next Jeff Bagwell or Jim Rice.

    Could they have won it without Peavy, not sure anyone could make that claim with any certainly....What we do know is they did win with him. To what extent he is credited for helping will be argued for decades. I get that you're in the pro Iglesias camp. I too loved watching the kid play...I'd trade Bogaerts right now if it meant that we'd be guaranteed another WS tittle. 

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    I know it's hard to predict what might have happened, but had we not obtained Peavy, Doubront would have been given more starts and IP.

    He clearly hit a wall in August (as I thought he would), but bounced back rather nicely later on. Who knows what might have happened has Doubie been given 20-30 more IP, including the playoffs.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon,

    The Peavy acquisition was done so primarily to protect against Buchholz not returning, but also to give them insurance if another starter went down. Peavy was a luxary they could afford. The reality is that they traded thier 2nd best SS prospect, not the next Jeff Bagwell or Jim Rice.

    Yes, exactly. Although everyone here knows I was and am a big defensive SS fan, and I hated to lose Iggy, the fact was, he was not in the Sox longterm plans. Bogey was the man of the future.

    Peavy had been a very good starter from 2012 to the point of the trade. Buch was a huge question mark, and that issue was the main driver behind the trade- not the dumping of Iggy. Of course, we'd like to still have Iggy. He's much better than Herrera.

    I mentioned Doubront more as an added worry we had beyong Buch, Lackey and Dempster. Had he been forced to pitch more, he may have broken down or worse.

     

    Could they have won it without Peavy, not sure anyone could make that claim with any certainly....What we do know is they did win with him. To what extent he is credited for helping will be argued for decades. I get that you're in the pro Iglesias camp. I too loved watching the kid play...I'd trade Bogaerts right now if it meant that we'd be guaranteed another WS tittle. 

    Certainly no way to know one way or the other, but I'd still rather have Iggy than Peavy. That's not meant as a criticism of Ben. The trade made sense, especially in the context of the season (see our pitching discussion), and how he viewed the future of our SS position.

    We won a ring!  How wonderful!

    Ben built a super team without hurting out future. Our future is as bright as ever. Our 2014 roster is highly competitive. Having 2-3 high draft choices is icing on the cake.

    One can look at 2014 and say, "now that Dempster is gone, it's good to have a healthy Peavy in the mix."

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know it's hard to predict what might have happened, but had we not obtained Peavy, Doubront would have been given more starts and IP.

    He clearly hit a wall in August (as I thought he would), but bounced back rather nicely later on. Who knows what might have happened has Doubie been given 20-30 more IP, including the playoffs.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon,

    The Peavy acquisition was done so primarily to protect against Buchholz not returning, but also to give them insurance if another starter went down. Peavy was a luxary they could afford. The reality is that they traded thier 2nd best SS prospect, not the next Jeff Bagwell or Jim Rice.

    Yes, exactly. Although everyone here knows I was and am a big defensive SS fan, and I hated to lose Iggy, the fact was, he was not in the Sox longterm plans. Bogey was the man of the future.

    Peavy had been a very good starter from 2012 to the point of the trade. Buch was a huge question mark, and that issue was the main driver behind the trade- not the dumping of Iggy. Of course, we'd like to still have Iggy. He's much better than Herrera.

    I mentioned Doubront more as an added worry we had beyong Buch, Lackey and Dempster. Had he been forced to pitch more, he may have broken down or worse.

     

    Could they have won it without Peavy, not sure anyone could make that claim with any certainly....What we do know is they did win with him. To what extent he is credited for helping will be argued for decades. I get that you're in the pro Iglesias camp. I too loved watching the kid play...I'd trade Bogaerts right now if it meant that we'd be guaranteed another WS tittle. 

    Certainly no way to know one way or the other, but I'd still rather have Iggy than Peavy. That's not meant as a criticism of Ben. The trade made sense, especially in the context of the season (see our pitching discussion), and how he viewed the future of our SS position.

    We won a ring!  How wonderful!

    Ben built a super team without hurting out future. Our future is as bright as ever. Our 2014 roster is highly competitive. Having 2-3 high draft choices is icing on the cake.

    One can look at 2014 and say, "now that Dempster is gone, it's good to have a healthy Peavy in the mix."

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The future is bright, it was made brighter by the Sox winning it all last year. That we did so without morgaging the future by trading away our best prospects or over extending the teams resources with bad contracts. Thus handcuffing Cherington ability to maximize the short or long term fiscal resources at his disposal to maintain roster flexibility, makes the accomplishments of the 2013 team even more noteworthy. 

    One can look at 2014 and say, "now that Dempster is gone, it's good to have a healthy Peavy in the mix."

    I think one could say that even if Dempster were still on the roster. In fact I doubt Cherington would have traded Iglesias for Peavy had he not been signed beyond 2013. If you buy into the notion that you can't have too much pitching. The Red Sox are in position to enter 2014 with perhaps the best organizational depth 1 through 6 in recent memory if we include Workman with three highly touted prospects close to being MLB ready (Owens, Barnes & Ranuando). My guess is they'll look to sign or add a veteran to the mix with the moneys saved with Dempsters decision to "sit out" the year? I also wouldn't be surprised to see Dempster himself make a cameo if healthy and his daughters health improves. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    The future is bright, it was made brighter by the Sox winning it all last year. That we did so without morgaging the future by trading away our best prospects or over extending the teams resources with bad contracts. Thus handcuffing Cherington ability to maximize the short or long term fiscal resources at his disposal to maintain roster flexibility, makes the accomplishments of the 2013 team even more noteworthy. 

    Precisely, and the prospects we traded: Iggy, Sands & Pimental really were not in Ben's longterm plans anyway. Yes, if we still had Iggy, he'd have a role on this team, but he probably wouldn't be a starter, unless Bogey or Middy got hurt or bombed out.

    To think we traded our utility IF'er for a picther like Peavy is hard to criticize (even though, personally, I'd rather have Iggy & the money from Peavy/Dempster to get another SP).

    ___________________________________________________________

     

    One can look at 2014 and say, "now that Dempster is gone, it's good to have a healthy Peavy in the mix."

    I think one could say that even if Dempster were still on the roster. In fact I doubt Cherington would have traded Iglesias for Peavy had he not been signed beyond 2013. If you buy into the notion that you can't have too much pitching. The Red Sox are in position to enter 2014 with perhaps the best organizational depth 1 through 6 in recent memory if we include Workman with three highly touted prospects close to being MLB ready (Owens, Barnes & Ranuando). My guess is they'll look to sign or add a veteran to the mix with the moneys saved with Dempsters decision to "sit out" the year?

    There is already talk of Capuano.

     

    I also wouldn't be surprised to see Dempster himself make a cameo if healthy and his daughters health improves. 

    Maybe, especially, if someone goes down hurt.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would like to wish Ryan and his family all the best and will pray for his daughter's speedy recovery from what sounds like a debilitating illness. In hindsight knowing that Dempster played with a heavy heart for most of last year due to his daughters illness. Once again reminds us that even those fortunate enough to play professional sports are not protected from life's realities. There's no pain deeper, than that of your child. No more helpless feeling, than knowing that you can't do anything to ease the burden. Unconditional love comes with a price. 

    While he himself would say that his on filed performance last year was disappointing and worthy of critisism. To his credit he continued to take the ball every five days and gave his team everything he had. His greatest asset was his character and professionalism. While he did fall short on the field. He more than delivered in the clubhouse leading by example and was an intergral part of a group of players that were brought in to help change the club house culture. A mission that ended with the team far exceeding expectation. Make no mistake about, Dempster played a huge role in helping to create a championship environment. Just another example of how even the best stat heads have yet to unlock the secret of the cause and effect that intangibles have on the sum of the parts. 

    To all those that were his detractors due to his not delivering to expectations last year. There's no need to apologize, but perhaps one might chose to use less defaming terms when expressing thier disappointment. In baseball many of us are conditioned to use terms like "bum" to express our disappointment in a player, manager or umpirer's performance. We boo in full throat with one voice at the park to express our disapointment when the results are less than. Often though, we do so with out all of the facts. Cleary in the case of Ryan Dempster we the fans through no fault of our own were in the dark about his personal life struggles and as such, it does lessen the burden of our collective venom. It doesn't however excuse those that chose to attack his character. On the field he was a bum, off the field he was a leader. 

    Today when he rises, he will do so with a heavy heart as a husband and a father with a child stricken by illness. His baseball career will quickly fade to black, his parental responsibility is is a lifelong commitment to unconditional love...A job, that he cleary has the intangibles to one day be a hall of famer at...

    [/QUOTE]

    That's a beautiful post, Bean. Well done. It reminds me of when J.D. Drew had a two-year-old son in a full-body cast that no one knew about when he was being hammered every day. It must have been difficult being away from him. When he hit that grand slam, I was so happy for him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Ryan is just a truly nice guy. He's Canadian, right? Aren't they all nice guys up there?

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL, yes, most of us are.

    The last big-name Canuck player for the Sox was also a very nice guy - Jason Bay.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, no. I forgot about you, Halifax! Now I'm never going to hear the end of it. :)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would like to wish Ryan and his family all the best and will pray for his daughter's speedy recovery from what sounds like a debilitating illness. In hindsight knowing that Dempster played with a heavy heart for most of last year due to his daughters illness. Once again reminds us that even those fortunate enough to play professional sports are not protected from life's realities. There's no pain deeper, than that of your child. No more helpless feeling, than knowing that you can't do anything to ease the burden. Unconditional love comes with a price. 

    While he himself would say that his on filed performance last year was disappointing and worthy of critisism. To his credit he continued to take the ball every five days and gave his team everything he had. His greatest asset was his character and professionalism. While he did fall short on the field. He more than delivered in the clubhouse leading by example and was an intergral part of a group of players that were brought in to help change the club house culture. A mission that ended with the team far exceeding expectation. Make no mistake about, Dempster played a huge role in helping to create a championship environment. Just another example of how even the best stat heads have yet to unlock the secret of the cause and effect that intangibles have on the sum of the parts. 

    To all those that were his detractors due to his not delivering to expectations last year. There's no need to apologize, but perhaps one might chose to use less defaming terms when expressing thier disappointment. In baseball many of us are conditioned to use terms like "bum" to express our disappointment in a player, manager or umpirer's performance. We boo in full throat with one voice at the park to express our disapointment when the results are less than. Often though, we do so with out all of the facts. Cleary in the case of Ryan Dempster we the fans through no fault of our own were in the dark about his personal life struggles and as such, it does lessen the burden of our collective venom. It doesn't however excuse those that chose to attack his character. On the field he was a bum, off the field he was a leader. 

    Today when he rises, he will do so with a heavy heart as a husband and a father with a child stricken by illness. His baseball career will quickly fade to black, his parental responsibility is is a lifelong commitment to unconditional love...A job, that he cleary has the intangibles to one day be a hall of famer at...

    [/QUOTE]

    That's a beautiful post, Bean. Well done. It reminds me of when J.D. Drew had a two-year-old son in a full-body cast that no one knew about when he was being hammered every day. It must have been difficult being away from him. When he hit that grand slam, I was so happy for him.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the kind words, it was written from the heart through the eyes of a parent. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would like to wish Ryan and his family all the best and will pray for his daughter's speedy recovery from what sounds like a debilitating illness. In hindsight knowing that Dempster played with a heavy heart for most of last year due to his daughters illness. Once again reminds us that even those fortunate enough to play professional sports are not protected from life's realities. There's no pain deeper, than that of your child. No more helpless feeling, than knowing that you can't do anything to ease the burden. Unconditional love comes with a price. 

    While he himself would say that his on filed performance last year was disappointing and worthy of critisism. To his credit he continued to take the ball every five days and gave his team everything he had. His greatest asset was his character and professionalism. While he did fall short on the field. He more than delivered in the clubhouse leading by example and was an intergral part of a group of players that were brought in to help change the club house culture. A mission that ended with the team far exceeding expectation. Make no mistake about, Dempster played a huge role in helping to create a championship environment. Just another example of how even the best stat heads have yet to unlock the secret of the cause and effect that intangibles have on the sum of the parts. 

    To all those that were his detractors due to his not delivering to expectations last year. There's no need to apologize, but perhaps one might chose to use less defaming terms when expressing thier disappointment. In baseball many of us are conditioned to use terms like "bum" to express our disappointment in a player, manager or umpirer's performance. We boo in full throat with one voice at the park to express our disapointment when the results are less than. Often though, we do so with out all of the facts. Cleary in the case of Ryan Dempster we the fans through no fault of our own were in the dark about his personal life struggles and as such, it does lessen the burden of our collective venom. It doesn't however excuse those that chose to attack his character. On the field he was a bum, off the field he was a leader. 

    Today when he rises, he will do so with a heavy heart as a husband and a father with a child stricken by illness. His baseball career will quickly fade to black, his parental responsibility is is a lifelong commitment to unconditional love...A job, that he cleary has the intangibles to one day be a hall of famer at...

    [/QUOTE]

    That's a beautiful post, Bean. Well done. It reminds me of when J.D. Drew had a two-year-old son in a full-body cast that no one knew about when he was being hammered every day. It must have been difficult being away from him. When he hit that grand slam, I was so happy for him.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the kind words, it was written from the heart through the eyes of a parent. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I wanted to send you a private message but I couldn't. I hope this is not an invasion of your privacy, but I felt like I needed to say something. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, my best to you and your family. Again, I mean no disrespect. It's really just a feeling I have that you may have possibly been speaking from first-hand experience.

    We're all just a hodgepodge of personalities on this board, but it becomes somewhat of a family in a weird way after spending years here -- even though just online and disfunctional as it may seem at times. I hope I'm wrong, but I do wish you the best.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: BREAKING: Ryan Dempster will not pitch for #RedSox in 2014

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would like to wish Ryan and his family all the best and will pray for his daughter's speedy recovery from what sounds like a debilitating illness. In hindsight knowing that Dempster played with a heavy heart for most of last year due to his daughters illness. Once again reminds us that even those fortunate enough to play professional sports are not protected from life's realities. There's no pain deeper, than that of your child. No more helpless feeling, than knowing that you can't do anything to ease the burden. Unconditional love comes with a price. 

    While he himself would say that his on filed performance last year was disappointing and worthy of critisism. To his credit he continued to take the ball every five days and gave his team everything he had. His greatest asset was his character and professionalism. While he did fall short on the field. He more than delivered in the clubhouse leading by example and was an intergral part of a group of players that were brought in to help change the club house culture. A mission that ended with the team far exceeding expectation. Make no mistake about, Dempster played a huge role in helping to create a championship environment. Just another example of how even the best stat heads have yet to unlock the secret of the cause and effect that intangibles have on the sum of the parts. 

    To all those that were his detractors due to his not delivering to expectations last year. There's no need to apologize, but perhaps one might chose to use less defaming terms when expressing thier disappointment. In baseball many of us are conditioned to use terms like "bum" to express our disappointment in a player, manager or umpirer's performance. We boo in full throat with one voice at the park to express our disapointment when the results are less than. Often though, we do so with out all of the facts. Cleary in the case of Ryan Dempster we the fans through no fault of our own were in the dark about his personal life struggles and as such, it does lessen the burden of our collective venom. It doesn't however excuse those that chose to attack his character. On the field he was a bum, off the field he was a leader. 

    Today when he rises, he will do so with a heavy heart as a husband and a father with a child stricken by illness. His baseball career will quickly fade to black, his parental responsibility is is a lifelong commitment to unconditional love...A job, that he cleary has the intangibles to one day be a hall of famer at...



    That's a beautiful post, Bean. Well done. It reminds me of when J.D. Drew had a two-year-old son in a full-body cast that no one knew about when he was being hammered every day. It must have been difficult being away from him. When he hit that grand slam, I was so happy for him.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the kind words, it was written from the heart through the eyes of a parent. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I wanted to send you a private message but I couldn't. I hope this is not an invasion of your privacy, but I felt like I needed to say something. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, my best to you and your family. Again, I mean no disrespect. It's really just a feeling I have that you may have possibly been speaking from first-hand experience.

    We're all just a hodgepodge of personalities on this board, but it becomes somewhat of a family in a weird way after spending years here -- even though just online and disfunctional as it may seem at times. I hope I'm wrong, but I do wish you the best.

    [/QUOTE]

    Kim,

    i appreciate your concern, in life we all face tough times and I'm no exception. Thankfully my wife and I are blessed with a healthy son who's now facing the challenges of being a teenager. My post was written from the perspective of the lifelong unconditional love I have for him. knowing that if the roles were reversed and it was my child stricken with an illness that robbed him of the joys of living a normal life it would be a heavy burden. 

    Warm Regards,

    Beantowne

     
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