Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Is this supposed to be a serious debate?

    It's not even close.

    Of course, only time will tell for "long term value" (which also needs to be clearly defined) but guys like Gardener are a dime a dozen - they come and go......Look at Juan Pierre who was much better than Gardener and even Juan ain't in Jake's league.........

    Besides, doesn't one play CF and the other LF?  Well, that was a waste of 60 seconds!!!!!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]No, given the teeny bopper like desperate pleas to extend Ellsbury, your comment is full blown desperation.  
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Im not the one posting threads of desperation and cherry picking stats to TRY and make your point..which by the way has failed miserably..but sure, go ahead and believe the garbage you write if it makes you sleep better at night..
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Most of RSN at the moment is enamoured with how well Ellsbury is playing on both offense and defense. It is the perfect time for a contrarian to jump in here and ruffle everyone's feathers with an OP such as the one above. Softlaw is the consumate contrarian, devil's advocate, and pot stirrer.He has admitted as much in previous posts. He knows that it livens up the forum and he is correct. Harness and Moonslav enjoy and appreciate anything that is controversial. My motive is just to tell you that this is Softlaw at his finest which is to be contrary. It should come as no surprise to veterans of the forum and should be expected. He did the same last year in his campaign to brainwash everyone that ellsbury was not really injured and was faking it. Anything to generate traffic and draw attention to himself.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]If Gardner was a Bahston sock, you fans would be singing a different song
    Posted by greatestNYY[/QUOTE]

    Gardner is a solid player and nobody is denying that..But anyone who knows baseball would agree that Jake is the better player...well except an unrealistic yankee fan
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]What is the Reverse Pivot? Is it anything like the Triple Axel or the Double Solchow? 
    Posted by soxdawg08[/QUOTE]

    or maybe this....

    http://youtu.be/2FUxUiMyt70
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    This argument about value is doomed by the economics of baseball.  The truly outstanding player will ALWAYS end up being the poorer value over the almost great player.  Example:  Hamels v Sabathia. 

    Hamels is a really good lefty, a few years younger than CC.  Hamels is having a career year this year, and is only being paid 9.5 million dollars.  CC, on the other hand is having a very similar year but is being paid 24.285 million dollars.  In part because Sabathia has been pitching at the elite level for quite a few years now, whereas Hamels has not.  Hamels's early career looks a lot like CC's early career.  So, one could say Hamels will be just as good.

    But there in is the rub:  You cannot know that he will turn out to be as good.  That is just conjecture.  AND, if he does turn out as good, he will eventually hit FA and garner a contract even bigger than CC's is right now (assuming inflation of contracts), thus becoming the poorer value.

    Who is the better value now?  Hamels.  Who will be a better value in 5 years? Unknowable.  Who is the better pitcher?  CC.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Why does it have to be either/or with these guys.  No doubt Gardner is a really good ballplayer.  I would love to have him on the Sox.  But I am also more than happy with Ellsbury.  He is evolving into an magnificent offensive force.  i don't think Gardner has the kind of tools to be that.  But that does not mean he is not valuable.  Great speed (yes, a more skilled baserunner than Ellsbury), great fielder (yes, better than Ellsbury), and a hard-nosed competitor and pure baseball guy. Whats not to like about Brett Gardner? 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    I watch a lot of both Red Sox Games and Yankee games and I gotta tell ya'..... It's not close. Ellsbury IS the better player. Gardner has never had 50 steals in a season, let alone 70.  Ellsbury has played more and still has a better Fld% and less E's than Gardner. Ellsbury with 600 more at bats ( lets say 50 more games )than Gardner, has only 7 more SO's, well over 200 more hits, doubles Gardner's Double total, Has been caught stealing 9 more times than Gardner but has 47 more steals.
    So Garnder, again lets say 50 games, needs over 200 hits (impossible), a SB for everyone of those 50 games (highly unlikely), only strike out 7 more times within those 50 games or 600+ at-bats ( I'm a doubter ), 25 more HR's ( rolling my eyes ), etc... YES ETC!

    Maybe your mother should take away your computer privledges for awhile and put that money towards a F*cking Math book!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Is this a joke??  I think even Brett Gardner himself would acknowledge that he is not as good a player as Ellsbury.

    There is not a GM in this league that would pick Gardner over Ellsbury including Gardner's own GM.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Troll post from one of the most sick trolls on the forum. The continual smashing of Ells by Softy is truly insane. All the while Ells is just ramming crow down Softy's gullet almost every game, but yet he continues his tirade. He is and has been patently wrong about Ells from the beginning of his rants against Ells, and now that clearly every single statement and prediction have been proven beyond a doubt wrong, he still won't just give it up by saying "I was wrong" and move on to another target. Softy, you have a character flaw that can't be fixed. I feel so very sorry for all the people you come in contact with out in the real world.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    How is it that 600 more at bats equals 50 games?  600 at bats is a full season.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Nothing against Gardner, but come on.  I would bet the farm that Cashman, or any G.M. would take Ellsbury over Gardner any day. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Career averages on offense are one notch higher for Ellsbury. Gardner a full notch higher on defense. Gardner with more baseball saavy than Ellsbury. Gardner with a better baseball build for a long term contract. Gardner's extension would be good value and wise. Ellsbury will not be extended by the Red Sox. Ellsbury should not be extended. Gardner will have more total years of career long production. Reddick and Kalish is where the future Red Sox Lefty Value is. Red Sox long term OF value is investing in a young elite slugging RH OF'er, not 12 to 14M to FA auction for Ellsbury.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    -It's tough to say if Gardner is a "full notch" better than Ellsbury on defense, as they play different positions. Fielding metrics don't like Ellsbury in CF, but in limited time in LF he's been very good. Gardner is a undeniable great LFer...but Ellsbury could possibly be too. We can't be sure.

    -As for "Gardner with more baseball saavy than Ellsbury", that might be the single dumbest statement ever made on this board. Ask any Yankee fan who pays attention...they HATE Gardner's "baseball saavy", especially on the basepaths.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]How is it that 600 more at bats equals 50 games?  600 at bats is a full season.
    Posted by parhunter1[/QUOTE]


    Go ask Baseball Reference not me. Ok. Look at it from a whole season. It's still impossible for Gardner to put up those numbers. Impossible.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Gardner is a much better long term value to the Sox than Ellsbury because he will remain a Yankee and allow the Sox to continue to use Ellsbury.  In that context, I love Gardner.  And, you know, I kind of like Melky Cabrera too because the Yankees dumped him and he is now hitting up a storm for the Royals. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]I watch a lot of both Red Sox Games and Yankee games and I gotta tell ya'..... It's not close. Ellsbury IS the better player. Gardner has never had 50 steals in a season, let alone 70.  Ellsbury has played more and still has a better Fld% and less E's than Gardner. Ellsbury with 600 more at bats ( lets say 50 more games )than Gardner, has only 7 more SO's, well over 200 more hits, doubles Gardner's Double total, Has been caught stealing 9 more times than Gardner but has 47 more steals. So Garnder, again lets say 50 games, needs over 200 hits (impossible), a SB for everyone of those 50 games (highly unlikely), only strike out 7 more times within those 50 games or 600+ at-bats ( I'm a doubter ), 25 more HR's ( rolling my eyes ), etc... YES ETC! Maybe your mother should take away your computer privledges for awhile and put that money towards a F*cking Math book!
    Posted by emp9[/QUOTE]


    Let me start by saying that Ellsbury is having a fabulous year, and appears to be a superstar in the making.Having said that; Ellsbury is not Gardner's equal in the field; he takes bad routes to balls, and his arm is inferior; and ridiculing Gardner's SBs using the never had 50 SB in a season before is, well, ridiculous. In 477 ABs in 2010 (his only near full season) he had 47 SBs; nice cherry picking there.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Gardner is a much better long term value to the Sox than Ellsbury because he will remain a Yankee and allow the Sox to continue to use Ellsbury.  In that context, I love Gardner.  And, you know, I kind of like Melky Cabrera too because the Yankees dumped him and he is now hitting up a storm for the Royals. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]



    I kind of like Melky Cabrera too because the Yankees dumped him and he is now hitting up a storm for the Royals.


    hardly dumped
     
    most people thought it was a pretty good trade at the time

    and logan is still on the team

    the braves not the  yanks dumped him




  19. December 22, 2009: Traded by the New York Yankees with Arodys Vizcaino (minors), Michael Dunn and cash to the Atlanta Braves for Boone Logan and Javier Vazquez.
  20. October 18, 2010: Released by the Atlanta Braves
 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    How is it that 600 more at bats equals 50 games?  600 at bats is a full season.
    Posted by parhunter1



    Go ask Baseball Reference not me. Ok. Look at it from a whole season. It's still impossible for Gardner to put up those numbers. Impossible. ---emp9
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    It's IMPOSSIBLE for Gardner to get 200 hits in a full season of 620 ABs? 47steals? 38 doubles? Puts the two of them neck and neck statistically. Walks? Ells 137, Gardner 152 with 620 fewer ABs. As for HRs, Ells is having a nice little uptick this year , but the man has 37 in his career. Ells is having a good year and is a nice player, but please.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Well Bill Hall is available having just been DFA'ed for the second time this year.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrynewyork. Show jerrynewyork's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Career averages on offense are one notch higher for Ellsbury. Gardner a full notch higher on defense. Gardner with more baseball saavy than Ellsbury. Gardner with a better baseball build for a long term contract. Gardner's extension would be good value and wise. Ellsbury will not be extended by the Red Sox. Ellsbury should not be extended. Gardner will have more total years of career long production. Reddick and Kalish is where the future Red Sox Lefty Value is. Red Sox long term OF value is investing in a young elite slugging RH OF'er, not 12 to 14M to FA auction for Ellsbury.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]
    why do people bother with this nonsense
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    With all the hoopla around Beltran these past few weeks, its interesting to see:


    Melky    .297, 12 HRs, 57 RBIs, and 14 SBs
    Beltran  .287, 15 HRs, 66 RBIs, and 3 SBs.

    Melky can also field and has an absolute gun.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Right now, Gardner, nor hardly else for that matter, is playing on the level that Ells is playing on.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from promise4you. Show promise4you's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Who the heck is he?
     
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    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]ya but thats about all gardner is. He does not offer much with the stick and is not that great at stealing bases (he is fast but gets caught stealing quite often)
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    I think that Ellsbury is a much better natural base stealer; but gardner has stole 17 in a row and his "caught stealing" percentage is now down significantly. He also leads the league in steals. With this swing however; he's not even in the same universe as Elsbury when it comes to slugging. I too would rather him than Crawford.

     
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