Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    ells avg 325 ob 383 slg 528 ops 911 17hr dob 29 rbi 60 sb 29=must be hard to be such a fool
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSNS14. Show RSNS14's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Fielding metrics is what put Cameron in CF over Ells. How did that work out? Ellsbury is a better ball player than Gardner will ever be. End of story.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Fielding metrics is what put Cameron in CF over Ells. How did that work out? Ellsbury is a better ball player than Gardner will ever be. End of story.
    Posted by RSNS14[/QUOTE]

    The proponents of UZR seemed to have given up on it. Cameron got injured and was never able to show his stuff. Ellsbury seems to be playing the walls extremely well this summer. Ellsbury is much more aggressive at the plate and makes good contact at nearly every AB. Gardner is good too and that is why Softlaw started this pizzin contest. That is his role and it is much appreciated by the Harness.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
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    Posted by redsoxlaxer12[/QUOTE]

    You're laughing as if Ellsbury is a career .320 hitter, he has to do this for more than one season for  you guys to put him on the pedestal many of you have put him on. Ever hear of a thing called a "career year"? Guys have great seasons and then come back to earth all the time in the over 140 years of the Major Leagues. Great season but he has to do this more than once before you nit-wits put him in the hall of fame.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Metrics did not put the better fielding CF'er in CF: Theo and Tito did.

    Ellsbury is still misjudging balls and taking wrong routes. I think he has improved, but he is not a great fielder. 

    If you don't believe in metrics, explain why Jacoby has never gotten one top 10 fielder vote from anyone in The Fielding Bible?

    The Fielding Bible votes:
    2010:
    Ellsbury: 0 top 10 votes from 10 MLB experts.
    Gardner: 6/10 votes as #1, lowest vot: 6th place out of top 10.
    2009:
    Ellsbury: Hurt (no votes)
    Gardner: 10 points for CF (15th place)
    2008:
    Ellsbury: No votes for top 10.
    Gardner: No votes for top 10.

    Look, Ellsbury is clearly the better player, but he is not the better fielder. Gardner plays LF now, and Jacoby CF, so it is hard to compare.

    Baserunning is more than just most SBs. SB%, taking the "extra base", and not running into outs are important as well. I haven't seen Gardner enough to say he is better or not, but I have noticed Jacoby getting thrown out a lot over the years- more than I think he should have been.

    Try to be objective. Jacoby is having a wonderful year. I would not trade his season for Gardner's 2011 season. It is not even close. Career numbers are closer. Gardner is a very good player. However, age and pay are factors, and I'd take Jacoby over Gardner easily.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury : The proponents of UZR seemed to have given up on it. 
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    "Proponents of UZR" have not "given up on it". Most of us have always said it is a flawed metric and should not ever be used in isolation or in small sample sizes.

    I'd still take UZR/150 over Fielding % anyday of the week. Nobody here watches every game in MLB everyday. We must rely on stats, metrics, expert opinion, and limited focus observations to make comparative judgements. UZR attempts to provide direct observations by trained people who watch every game. It is not perfect, but it is better than Joe Smoe telling me player A is better than a player he has seen play maybe 3 to 10 times this year and looks only at fielding percentage to adjust his opinion.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury : Let me start by saying that Ellsbury is having a fabulous year, and appears to be a superstar in the making.Having said that; Ellsbury is not Gardner's equal in the field; he takes bad routes to balls, and his arm is inferior; and ridiculing Gardner's SBs using the never had 50 SB in a season before is , well, ridiculous. In 477 ABs in 2010 (his only near full season) he had 47 SBs; nice cherry picking there.  
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    You say ridicule, I say fact... whatever. I also said "Let alone 70". Cherry picking???!!! I'm going right through everything! Who's cherryPicking?  Garderner's not batting .300 this season, never has actually. If I said something like that, and just that... I would be cherry picking.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury : You say ridicule, I say fact... whatever. I also said "Let alone 70". Cherry picking???!!! I'm going right through everything! Who's cherryPicking?  Garderner's not batting .300 this season, never has actually. If I said something like that, and just that... I would be cherry picking.
    Posted by emp9[/QUOTE]

    Nice try with the distracting double talk. Who do you think you're kidding? The guy had 1 near full season of 47 SBs and you're quick to point out that he never stole 50 bases? That, my friend, is cherry picking.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Between softy and emp9, there are enough cherries picked for a nice cherry pie. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]Between softy and emp9, there are enough cherries picked for a nice cherry pie. 
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Thank you.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury : Thank you.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    The problem is: the pie would only be "half-baked".

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Hall will replace Jake...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    Moon, You're being stalked.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    softlaw1million will replace billbyboy
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury

    In Response to Re: Brett Gardner is a better long term beyond FA Value than Ellsbury:
    [QUOTE]softlaw1million will replace billbyboy
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]That sounds like an accurate prediction.
     

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