Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

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    [QUOTE]Yet another example of Francona mis-managing his pitching staff....He allowed Albiers to crash and burn and to take the game with him.  Exactly where was Morales for Pena and where was Bowden? That was one of the most embarrasing innings I've ever seen. And I can not believe that Cub fans b-itch-slapped Sox fans in Fenway...... Better win today!  Yes, it's a must win.  You can not lose a Series to the Cubs at home.  Peroid. 
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    You've GOT to be kidding me. "A must win" when we're a half-game back on May 22??!?!?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that! : What's assinine is that you don't manage all 162 games like it's the seventh game of the World Series. If Tito managed the bullpen like you crybabies want him to, he'd burn out the bullpen by June and you'd be on here whining about how he can't manage a bullpen. Albers has nearly lights out this year. He didn't have it last night. The Sox had an eight-game winning streak. It wasn't going to last forever.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
    NO what is asinine is that FOOLS cannot see that this was an arrogant ignorant mistake..   

    NO One told him to Burn out his BULLPEN by JUNE - ! 

    No one has told him to injure BARD- !

    Many of us have told him that "IF" he knew he had personnel problems then he should have been prepared to use the personnel he had- whether they were known or unknown quantities...
    There is NO DARNED rule in the rule book that says come september TITO can demand a mulligan for this loss because it was in MAY.

    HE never had anyone warming up until after the cubs scored 5X, and anyone that accepts excuses like these is ignorant.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

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    [QUOTE]"Last night I sure wanted to agree with encinitas and burritoT, but this morning I read Peter Abraham.  As it turns out, Albers had to pitch the 8th because Bard was out (too many innings for this early in the season), Atchison pitched 3 innings last night, Papelbon couldn't be used for a two inning save this early in the season, Hill and Wheeler had already been used, and Morales was an unknown quantity (and soon proved to be more gasoline on the raging Cubs fire).  The Sox will be playing today and then without a break play 7 at Detroi and Cleveland.  " Most of Franconona's critics look at every game as a single entity and NEVER take anything else into account. I wondered why albers was in there so long, but I did also at least acknowledge there might be a reason.  And, gee, surprise, surprise, there was. Games like this do cost the Sox, but if you look at how the bullpen is being managed in Seattle and Philadelphia, you can see prime examples of what happens to overworked pitchers. Like it or not, the Sox only need to win 60% of their games to make the post-season.  That is the goal at the tart of the season, and the goal is never to go 162-0.  This is a good thing, ebcuase having a ridiculous goal of 162-0 would show complete cluelessness by the manager and easily result in an even worse season. But, hey, fire away from the safety of your armchair, knowing full well the cushion will never be as critical of you, despite that it has much more reason to be...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely there wwere many EXCUSES why Albers was in there so long.....   But we all know what EXCUSES ARE LIKE.....  don't we?

    People like you FAIL TO REALIZE..... every game is important..... IF the sox finish out of the playoffs by one game.. then this is a very IMPORTANT 1 game is it not?

    I have failed to read where anyone said not to use the players TITO deemed fit to play..... I have seen a lot of the TITO apologists saying things like well what if he used BARD and three weeks from Monday Bard was hurt..... ASININE!

    He still had other players that could have pitched.... he BLEW IT!  He had an UNKNOWN QUANTITY..... while each and everyone of us darned well KNEW that ALBERS was stinking last night.... Appararently that was still unknown to TITO untill 6 runs scored.   He had Wheeler  who could have thrown to a few more batters- seems he was doing okay (to me).... He had HILL who had just struck out two batters in a row (Seems like he was doing pretty good to me)....  but after not realizing that the other two pitchers were throwing well... this guy didn't realize that Albers was stinking up the place.....  OH MY LORD.. we cannot use BARD he may need a MRI three weeks from MONDAY..... and OH LORD we cannot use MORALES... we don't know what the heck we just traded for (He is an unknown quantity).
    FACE IT... the GUY SCREWED UP!   He has MANY chances to get a win last night, and move into 1st place..... but he would rather be a wild card.....
     
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    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that! :  EXCUSES EXCUSES..... SO you have a guy that you "Expect" to do okay... but he gets not a single out in the first 6 batters..... YOU still do not have your "UNKNOWN QUANTITY" warming up?  REALLY?  This is an example of POOR management.   HILL Struck out the two batters he faces- Why was he pulled at the end of the 7th if they had personnel problems? Wheeler pitches 1 1/3 inings but he was doing fine... WHY not allow him to finish the 7th... then still have HILL in your hands for later. DID Francona not know he had a personnel problem going into the game?.... If so why did he not "in game" manage better to allow him more leeway towards the end. IS an UNKNOWN QUANTITY not better than an 8 run inning?  Albers had ZERO outs with 6 batters....  Apparently Morales wasn't wuite as bad as that, NOW was he?   In the 8th innint the cubs scored 8 runs on 6 hits three BB's 3 erors.... and one asinine manager who was too dumb to have his "UNKNOWN QUANTITY" at least warming up.   Oh and Bard couldn't have come in to get one or two outs?..... SO who's fault is it that he pitched so many innings so early in the season?   FIGURE it out.. Abaraham spouts the corporate line... but no matter how you look at it,  poor personnel management is what got them in the position, and they were not allow to releive the under performing manager before it got away from them. On an aside... Late in the top of the 8th inning I had a flashback to the Greenfield NY Township Little League CHampionship tournament from 1995.... with all those players throwing the ball past the tagret, and the runners just galloping the bases without and fear that the terrible defense could catch them.  I think Francona may have been managing one of those two teams also.
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]

    While I am not a fan of Francona and would "on occasion" be one of the first to second guess Francona's in game management ability, I actually got a big laugh out of the 8th inning fiasco.  I guess that its OK to have 1 game out of 162 to be a real laughter even if the Sox lost.  So I don't blame Francona (gulp) on this one....the 8th inning was the Sox's version of the "Keystone Kops"......I'm still laughing this morning on that joke of an inning last night.  We'' get them today even with Wake pitching....final score today Sox 14-Cubs 12.  GO SOX!Wink
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    Where was Michael Bowden?

    Yes, 1/2 GB sure...but the division is completely compressed....How many series do you want to lose where we should win and still think we can make the playoffs?  So yes, I believe tonight is an important game......
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

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    [QUOTE]Where was Michael Bowden? Yes, 1/2 GB sure...but the division is completely compressed....How many series do you want to lose where we should win and still think we can make the playoffs?  So yes, I believe tonight is an important game......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Vast difference between "important" and "must win."
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

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    It's not must-win in the sense that you win or go home of course but if they want to keep pace in this division they need to win tonight.

    They are lucky they aren't facing Garza tonight. 

     
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    [QUOTE]Where was Michael Bowden? Yes, 1/2 GB sure...but the division is completely compressed....How many series do you want to lose where we should win and still think we can make the playoffs?  So yes, I believe tonight is an important game......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Where was Michael Bowden?  Pawtucket!   The thing is ; knowing that Bard and Atchison were not available, Tito needed to use the bullpen more wisely. Using Hill for only two batters was a mistake. I have no idea what his plans were if the game had gone extra innings. Albers was a logical choice to pitch the 8th but needed to be pulled when it was obvious that he was not up to the job. Tito did not manage that very well. It's only one game, not the end of the world , but one cannot defend Tito on this without losing some credibility. Some things are just too obvious to try and deny.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    I don't post here, but I enjoy reading until I see stuff like this and enough is enough.

    A baseball season lasts 162 games, therefore a manager must manage that way. That means that game time decisions are also affected by Seasonal Managing. That means every game needs perspective. We need to analyze what's been going on during the season to play the game.

    1. Albers has been one of our BEST relievers this season. I've pretty much been thinking all along that if Bard is unavailable for an eighth inning, it is Albers that we should put in that role. I believe that pitching well EARNS spots like that. It isn't Francona's fault that Albers blew the chance he earned.

    2. With two starting pitching injuries our depth is low, which means preserving the arms that we DO HAVE is more important than ever. Making a pregame decision to give Bard rest important.

    3. Aceves and Wake are now unavailable in the 'pen, now where a large deal of you that hate Wake, pointing out that his role is not much more than a mop-up pitcher now.

    News flash, having a mop up is important, in a game we are losing 8-0 in the third inning being able to put wake in that inning to eat a few saves the bullpen later on. That means in games like yesterday's the ultimate with a pitcher that hasn't started since '09 is to not use your entire bullpen. You cannot take a pitcher out because he gives up two or three hits immediately, if Albers gives up 2 hits and we pull him, then Morales comes in and gives up  2 hits is the manager suppose to pull him too?


    Francona isn't perfect, I get fustrated with some of his gametime calls (Wake pitching in the 9th when we're down by one run comes to mind). But to blame Francona for a player who has been executing all year, having a game where he just implodes, is just not fair or right.

    We should be looking at the positives of this game, Morales looks like he has potential, and Wheeler pitched great. These are encouraging signs for our damaged pitching depth. Albers's hiccup costed us a game, but let's hope that's all yesterday was for Albers, a hiccup.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

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    [QUOTE]I don't post here, but I enjoy reading until I see stuff like this and enough is enough. A baseball season lasts 162 games, therefore a manager must manage that way. That means that game time decisions are also affected by Seasonal Managing. That means every game needs perspective. We need to analyze what's been going on during the season to play the game. 1. Albers has been one of our BEST relievers this season. I've pretty much been thinking all along that if Bard is unavailable for an eighth inning, it is Albers that we should put in that role. I believe that pitching well EARNS spots like that. It isn't Francona's fault that Albers blew the chance he earned. 2. With two starting pitching injuries our depth is low, which means preserving the arms that we DO HAVE is more important than ever. Making a pregame decision to give Bard rest important. 3. Aceves and Wake are now unavailable in the 'pen, now where a large deal of you that hate Wake, pointing out that his role is not much more than a mop-up pitcher now. News flash, having a mop up is important, in a game we are losing 8-0 in the third inning being able to put wake in that inning to eat a few saves the bullpen later on. That means in games like yesterday's the ultimate with a pitcher that hasn't started since '09 is to not use your entire bullpen. You cannot take a pitcher out because he gives up two or three hits immediately, if Albers gives up 2 hits and we pull him, then Morales comes in and gives up is the manager suppose to pull him too? Francona isn't perfect, I get fustrated with some of his gametime calls (Wake pitching in the 9th when we're down by one run comes to mind). But to blame Francona for a player who has been executing all year, having a game where he just implodes, is just not fair or right. We should be looking at the positives of this game, Morales looks like he has potential, and Wheeler pitched great. These are encouraging signs for our damaged pitching depth. Albers's hiccup costed us a game, but let's hope that's all yesterday was for Albers, a hiccup.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]
    Excellent debut post.
    To many fans around here believe Tito should manage every game as if there were no tomorrow. (Despite what Harold Camping says, there will be). That's not to say Tito leaving Albers in as long as he did wasn't at least questionable. Yet being that I'm not around the team all day and don't know the personnel like he does, I'm guessing he had his reasons.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaz456. Show Yaz456's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    I thought Bowden was sent back down a day or two after he was called up?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

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    That's my guess too.  Not sure how Theo is managing that pen.  I think Bowden may have been sent down when Wheeler was acticated or Morales was added....But wait, Okie was DFA's for Morales....So we took Wheeler and sent back Bowden I guess.  Oh well, Theo had his chance to fix the pen this winter and refused to so now we are stuck with this continual mess..........
     
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    [QUOTE]That's my guess too.  Not sure how Theo is managing that pen.  I think Bowden may have been sent down when Wheeler was acticated or Morales was added....But wait, Okie was DFA's for Morales....So we took Wheeler and sent back Bowden I guess.  Oh well, Theo had his chance to fix the pen this winter and refused to so now we are stuck with this continual mess..........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Execuse me. What?
    Theo signed Jenks and Wheeler this offseason, he made a huge amount of non-big names to, whom Albers, Aceves, and Hill were among. Relievers are a huge question mark for every team, everytime they are signed. Look at Scott downs who's been on and off the baseball field with injuries or Soriano with the Yanks who's given them virtually nothing thus far.
     
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    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    I'm guessing people who defend last night's game decisions just can't read or have very little comprhession of whatthey are reading. NOBODY SAID bringing in Albers was a bad decision !! What anybody with half a brain is saying is, it was a BAD DECISION not having somebody, paplebon comes to mind immediately, warming up after the first two hits. After walking the next guy the proper procedure should have been 1) Getting somebody up Now !!, 2) pitching coach visiting the mound and waiting till umpire asked him to leave while relief pitcher continues to get ready, 3) A couple of throws to first while relief pitcher continues to get warm(Don't try the fake pickoff at third thing we all know how well that worked the last time) 4) Slow walk to mound by Tito, while Reilef pitcher gets last few tosses in, then relieve current overly ineffective pitcher and hope for better results from whomever you bring in !! There were many very poor decisions and knowing the team was shorthanded last night was not an out for Tito, it just made all the other bad decisions even worse the usual !!
     
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    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    Excuse me?  What?  Did you really just mention Jenks and Wheeler as giving Theo kudos to fixing the pen?
     
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    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    In Response to Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!:
    [QUOTE]I don't post here, but I enjoy reading until I see stuff like this and enough is enough. A baseball season lasts 162 games, therefore a manager must manage that way. That means that game time decisions are also affected by Seasonal Managing. That means every game needs perspective. We need to analyze what's been going on during the season to play the game. 1. Albers has been one of our BEST relievers this season. I've pretty much been thinking all along that if Bard is unavailable for an eighth inning, it is Albers that we should put in that role. I believe that pitching well EARNS spots like that. It isn't Francona's fault that Albers blew the chance he earned. 2. With two starting pitching injuries our depth is low, which means preserving the arms that we DO HAVE is more important than ever. Making a pregame decision to give Bard rest important. 3. Aceves and Wake are now unavailable in the 'pen, now where a large deal of you that hate Wake, pointing out that his role is not much more than a mop-up pitcher now. News flash, having a mop up is important, in a game we are losing 8-0 in the third inning being able to put wake in that inning to eat a few saves the bullpen later on. That means in games like yesterday's the ultimate with a pitcher that hasn't started since '09 is to not use your entire bullpen. You cannot take a pitcher out because he gives up two or three hits immediately, if Albers gives up 2 hits and we pull him, then Morales comes in and gives up  2 hits is the manager suppose to pull him too? Francona isn't perfect, I get fustrated with some of his gametime calls (Wake pitching in the 9th when we're down by one run comes to mind). But to blame Francona for a player who has been executing all year, having a game where he just implodes, is just not fair or right. We should be looking at the positives of this game, Morales looks like he has potential, and Wheeler pitched great. These are encouraging signs for our damaged pitching depth. Albers's hiccup costed us a game, but let's hope that's all yesterday was for Albers, a hiccup.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]
    It may have be4en a hiccup for Albers.. or he may be returning more to his NORM. 

    For Tito it is the NORM.....

    He KNEW he had a depleted bullpen and he acted like he did not... then when he needed to find a solution he was like a deer in the headlights..... PARALYZED.


    162 games or not.. EACH GAME MEANS THE EXACT SAME AMT IN THE STANDINGS.....  If we fall out of the playoffs by one game it was because of an ignorant maneuver by someone who KNEW he had a personnel problem- THAT IS HIS FAULT!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    In Response to Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!:
    [QUOTE]That's my guess too.  Not sure how Theo is managing that pen.  I think Bowden may have been sent down when Wheeler was acticated or Morales was added....But wait, Okie was DFA's for Morales....So we took Wheeler and sent back Bowden I guess.  Oh well, Theo had his chance to fix the pen this winter and refused to so now we are stuck with this continual mess..........
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Oh my god... YOU didn;t go and attack THEO in the attack TITO thread did you?  There will be hell to pay if you ever call either of these two to the carpet for their mistakes..... BEWARE.... You probably got some THEO guy's panties in a bunch- here it comes.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    LOL - it won't be the first time!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    Going into the season I was happy with the Wheeler signing, I still am, was a great pitcher and Tampa and I feel that he was one of the better available pitchers. The fact that Wheeler and Jenks both didn't work out so far, but the likes of Albers and Aceves are just shows how volatile the reliever is.
    What do you do to fix the pen over the winter? Sign a big name free agent and end up dealing with large contracts going on the DL instead of minor ones?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    What do you do to fix the pen over the winter?

    Apparently a majority of the offseason last year was spent trying to make up excuses for the ineptness that the less learned of us would accept as GOSPEL.

    So many keep accepting the BS.... that they just keep feeding it to you all.

    We should do a poll... DO you eat your BS with a ;
    1) FORK
    2) Spoon
    3) Chopsticks
    4) Bulldozer


    SO may of you just accept inferiority and an excuse that it is PUTRID....

    COMA "KNEW" he had a depleted bullpen prior to the game.  He had a gameplan "A" and then he prayed that it really was the end of the world day so he would leave smelling like a rose..
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    In Response to Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!:
    [QUOTE]What do you do to fix the pen over the winter? Apparently a majority of the offseason last year was spent trying to make up excuses for the ineptness that the less learned of us would accept as GOSPEL. So many keep accepting the BS.... that they just keep feeding it to you all. We should do a poll... DO you eat your BS with a ; 1) FORK 2) Spoon 3) Chopsticks 4) Bulldozer SO may of you just accept inferiority and an excuse that it is PUTRID.... COMA "KNEW" he had a depleted bullpen prior to the game.  He had a gameplan "A" and then he prayed that it really was the end of the world day so he would leave smelling like a rose..
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]

    This answer completely avoids my question which isn't even in response to yesterday's game, instead the question revolves around asking how Theo ignored our terrible bullpen of '10 going into '11.

    By the way I eat my BS the same way I eat everything. With my hands. :)
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

     All you people who know so much more than Francona,please send your resume along with a list of your Major League Baseball experience to:

    John Henry  c/o
    Boston Red Sox
  24. 4 Yawkey Way
  25. Boston, MA 02215
  26. Phone Number: (617) 226-6000

  27. Make sure to include the amount of time you've spent playing in the MLB and the number of years you've managed a team.I'm sure Mr. Henry will be  happy to look over your resume.This applies for those who are smarter than Theo as well.Good luck and maybe we'll see you in the dugout soon.  

 
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    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    Bard can't pitch every night what don't you understand about that???  DIDN"T BARD BLOW A 2 RUN LEAD LAST OUTING????

    The sox had to go w albers or bowden, albers had been good so far, it didn't work out.

    They won 7 in a row and are .5 out of 1st cheer up things are going right.  They got a great start from aceves chill out.

    people love to bash tito.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from fancy-shamanski. Show fancy-shamanski's posts

    Re: Calling all Coma apologists ---defend that!

    It really seems anytime the pen blows one tito takes the blame instead of the pitcher.

    Albers isn't that great, maybe bowden should've pitched, but if he would've blown it you'd say "albers shoulda pitched he's been so good so far...."

    the poor pen has to do with theo as well...
    hopefully that fatbody on the dl will come back healthy and effective.  The team is in much better shape now then a few weeks ago so don't freak out over the first loss in 8 games. 
    Tito bashing gets so old...  you people fail to see any positives of tito, he might not be the best x's and o's manager, but he has done a very good job here so far, much better then any other manager this team has had.  This team needs a tito type manager to deal with all you idiots always complaining.  Theo p!sses me off a lot and has made soooo many bad signings.  He's just a better than average gm, not amazing by anymeans, but at the end of the day i STILL want theo and tito as gm and manager

    Blame henry and theo before tito, they assembled this pen, tito really had no choice, but to not use bard.  bard hasn't been that great this year anyways so it didn't work out.  I've seen paps blow a 2-run lead, it happens to the best of them.  once the bases were loaded bringing in brad would not have been smart.  let albers hope to get out of it???
     
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