Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

     

     

    I guess you don't value inning eaters/bull dogs; that's not what all MLB coaching staffs think. To each his own, And if means nothing, there would be no tie breaker. But I don't go along with this anyway. BTW, there are NO 300 GWs (except Clemens) who are NOT in the HOF. I'm still waiting for that 22 GWer who isn't that good.

     

     



    I guess you never heard of a trio of guys named Glavine, Maddux and Johnson.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    They're not eligible yet.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     


    You claim it doesn't mean anything. I've showed you otherwise, and via this high effort cherry picking, you've reinforced my point. Of course, there are other factors, such as run support, both lack of (Hernandez, Peavy, Johnson, Oswalt, Lincecum, Kershaw) and the opposite (Beckett, Burnett) or clutch pitching (Nova, and yrs ago Morris). Plus, you're stretching the truth here, i.e Harrison has a mediocre ERA at 3.29?

    i said mediorce IN COMPARISON to the non-bold stats.

    Playing in the AL at Texas stadium? Good for 7th in the league in ERA? Really? It's also notable how most of your high ERAs (DH counts for at least 0.75 runs), are AL and low are the NL (except Hernandez, who plays in a pitchers park with a weak hitting team in tow). Misrepresentative, to say the least.

    Do you agree that a qualified sub-par pitcher can lead the league in wins? In theory if he has good run support and a good BP behind him it doesn't matter how good he pitches. A qualified sub-par pitcher CAN NOT lead the league in other pitching stats (like ERA, WHIP, SO/BB etc.) because then he wouldn't be a sub-par pitcher now would he? because what constitutes a good pitcher? good ERA, WHIP SO/9 etc...

     

    In my eyes, W/L should only be used as a tiebreaker in the event that stats between pitchers are extremely close. example: Pitcher A has a 2.68 ERA, 1.116 WHIP, 13-12. Pitcher B has a 2.81 ERA, 1.067 WHIP, 18-5. Then i would say Pitcher B is better. Of course, there are 15 other pitching stats i would use to settle the debate ahead of wins/losses. If judging a pitcher on W/L floats your boat thats fine by me. To each their own. People value different statistics at differing rates. I put 0 value into the W/L stat because of so many variables that determine if a pitcher ends up with a "win" or not. Especially when there are an abundance of other stats that do a much much much much better job of displaying how good a pitcher is.

    I have a similar view on IP, just because a guy pitches 250 innings doesnt mean he is good. it just gives some perspective when comparing other stats between pitchers.

     



    I guess you don't value inning eaters/bull dogs; that's not what all MLB coaching staffs think. To each his own, And if means nothing, there would be no tie breaker. But I don't go along with this anyway. BTW, there are NO 300 GWs (except Clemens) who are NOT in the HOF. I'm still waiting for that 22 GWer who isn't that good.

     



    like i said, i only look at a players W/L in the event that every other stat is virtaully identical between players. But since i rank evry other pitching stat ahead of W/L it never comes to that.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     


    You claim it doesn't mean anything. I've showed you otherwise, and via this high effort cherry picking, you've reinforced my point. Of course, there are other factors, such as run support, both lack of (Hernandez, Peavy, Johnson, Oswalt, Lincecum, Kershaw) and the opposite (Beckett, Burnett) or clutch pitching (Nova, and yrs ago Morris). Plus, you're stretching the truth here, i.e Harrison has a mediocre ERA at 3.29?

    i said mediorce IN COMPARISON to the non-bold stats.

    Playing in the AL at Texas stadium? Good for 7th in the league in ERA? Really? It's also notable how most of your high ERAs (DH counts for at least 0.75 runs), are AL and low are the NL (except Hernandez, who plays in a pitchers park with a weak hitting team in tow). Misrepresentative, to say the least.

    Do you agree that a qualified sub-par pitcher can lead the league in wins? In theory if he has good run support and a good BP behind him it doesn't matter how good he pitches. A qualified sub-par pitcher CAN NOT lead the league in other pitching stats (like ERA, WHIP, SO/BB etc.) because then he wouldn't be a sub-par pitcher now would he? because what constitutes a good pitcher? good ERA, WHIP SO/9 etc...

     

    In my eyes, W/L should only be used as a tiebreaker in the event that stats between pitchers are extremely close. example: Pitcher A has a 2.68 ERA, 1.116 WHIP, 13-12. Pitcher B has a 2.81 ERA, 1.067 WHIP, 18-5. Then i would say Pitcher B is better. Of course, there are 15 other pitching stats i would use to settle the debate ahead of wins/losses. If judging a pitcher on W/L floats your boat thats fine by me. To each their own. People value different statistics at differing rates. I put 0 value into the W/L stat because of so many variables that determine if a pitcher ends up with a "win" or not. Especially when there are an abundance of other stats that do a much much much much better job of displaying how good a pitcher is.

    I have a similar view on IP, just because a guy pitches 250 innings doesnt mean he is good. it just gives some perspective when comparing other stats between pitchers.

     



    I guess you don't value inning eaters/bull dogs; that's not what all MLB coaching staffs think. To each his own, And if means nothing, there would be no tie breaker. But I don't go along with this anyway. BTW, there are NO 300 GWs (except Clemens) who are NOT in the HOF. I'm still waiting for that 22 GWer who isn't that good.

     

     



    like i said, i only look at a players W/L in the event that every other stat is virtaully identical between players. But since i rank evry other pitching stat ahead of W/L it never comes to that.

     




    OK. We don't have to agree.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    Nolan Ryan is the classic example of the misleading W-L record.  His lifetime record of 324-292 would have been more like 374-242 if he had played on more good teams.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craig2174. Show craig2174's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    I can't believe that people thought this OP was serious!  I guess after Mantei Teo, it is not that big a stretch for someone to believe it was real.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to craig2174's comment:

    I can't believe that people thought this OP was serious!  I guess after Mantei Teo, it is not that big a stretch for someone to believe it was real.




    While the OP was clearly a play off of the Naps hitting 40+ thread, it has evolved.

    Still,......  Some are seriously debating Lackey having a great year????    OY!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    perhaps "devolved?"  As most threads tend to do on this board....

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Nolan Ryan is the classic example of the misleading W-L record.  His lifetime record of 324-292 would have been more like 374-242 if he had played on more good teams.

     




    incredible nut

    he was 8 - 16 with

     

    a 2.76 era & 1.13 whip 11.5 k/9 one yr

    always a tad high with the BB but only 3.7 /9 that yr




    would you say a pitcher with a record of 16-8 was better than him that year?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    The relevant fact though....  2010 Lackey's ERA was could easily have justified a lower win / loss ratio.  He won 14 games I believe, & all 14 wins were supported by 6+ runs. 

    2011 Lackey earned all his losses, & should have had more.

    I'll concede the point that Lackey may well have been injured, but I think he was likely heading down hill fast, now that he's pitching in a REAL hitters league.  He will NEVER match or come close to his big seasons in the AL west!  NEVER!

    It could get ugly, but I'll play for a miracle!!!!!   :)

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to pinstripezac's comment:

     


    he was 8 - 16 with

    a 2.76 era & 1.13 whip 11.5 k/9 one yr

    always a tad high with the BB but only 3.7 /9 that yr

    would you say a pitcher with a record of 16-8 was better than him that year?

     

    clearly I need more info mef

    but I'm still old school enough to value wins

    more than most fans these days

    what say U

     




    how much do you value them? how much of a disparity between stats equates to 1 win? .25 ERA?


    just give me an idea of how much they are worth in your opinion

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

     

     



     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from baddad. Show baddad's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    i can see 16 maybe even 17 games if healthy and no beckett around

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    I expect Lackey to win 30+ and pitch 300+ innings, and Napoli to hit 60+ HRs. Napoli will shout encouraging words from first base that will inspire Lackey to greatness.



    We have finally identified a truly positive fan!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to baddad's comment:

    i can see 16 maybe even 17 games if healthy and no beckett around




    Can we just savage this guy for his red sox BASEBALL related views & give the other pizzing matches a rest???

    :)

    Get him!!!!  Pull out the pitchforks with a sound reason!!!  I hate Lackey & the entire families of anybody who buys into the insane notion that he will do anything other than rip this team to shreds!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    ok.....   Maybe I over-reacted just a bit.  Probably stop at immediate family members?

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     


    You claim it doesn't mean anything. I've showed you otherwise, and via this high effort cherry picking, you've reinforced my point. Of course, there are other factors, such as run support, both lack of (Hernandez, Peavy, Johnson, Oswalt, Lincecum, Kershaw) and the opposite (Beckett, Burnett) or clutch pitching (Nova, and yrs ago Morris). Plus, you're stretching the truth here, i.e Harrison has a mediocre ERA at 3.29?

    i said mediorce IN COMPARISON to the non-bold stats.

    Playing in the AL at Texas stadium? Good for 7th in the league in ERA? Really? It's also notable how most of your high ERAs (DH counts for at least 0.75 runs), are AL and low are the NL (except Hernandez, who plays in a pitchers park with a weak hitting team in tow). Misrepresentative, to say the least.

    Do you agree that a qualified sub-par pitcher can lead the league in wins? In theory if he has good run support and a good BP behind him it doesn't matter how good he pitches. A qualified sub-par pitcher CAN NOT lead the league in other pitching stats (like ERA, WHIP, SO/BB etc.) because then he wouldn't be a sub-par pitcher now would he? because what constitutes a good pitcher? good ERA, WHIP SO/9 etc...

     

    In my eyes, W/L should only be used as a tiebreaker in the event that stats between pitchers are extremely close. example: Pitcher A has a 2.68 ERA, 1.116 WHIP, 13-12. Pitcher B has a 2.81 ERA, 1.067 WHIP, 18-5. Then i would say Pitcher B is better. Of course, there are 15 other pitching stats i would use to settle the debate ahead of wins/losses. If judging a pitcher on W/L floats your boat thats fine by me. To each their own. People value different statistics at differing rates. I put 0 value into the W/L stat because of so many variables that determine if a pitcher ends up with a "win" or not. Especially when there are an abundance of other stats that do a much much much much better job of displaying how good a pitcher is.

    I have a similar view on IP, just because a guy pitches 250 innings doesnt mean he is good. it just gives some perspective when comparing other stats between pitchers.

     




    Yeah. This post was written by a 20-year-old who just supposedly took his father's account while he wasn't on the computer and made it his own.

     




    ....is there a point to this post?

     
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