Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    I expect Lackey to win 30+ and pitch 300+ innings, and Napoli to hit 60+ HRs. Napoli will shout encouraging words from first base that will inspire Lackey to greatness.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    I expect Lackey to win 30+ and pitch 300+ innings, and Napoli to hit 60+ HRs. Napoli will shout encouraging words from first base that will inspire Lackey to greatness.




    Now there's the rightful optimism Kimmy's been looking for!  Don't rain on our parade Yankee "trolls!" 

    p.s.  Are they like the trolls in Billy Goats Gruff?  Where do these "trolls" live?  Under a bridge?  Would that be the Staten Island Bridge or ...  Do they really eat Boston fans for breakfast?  Couldn't the TSA take jursdiction over this "terroristic" threat?  Is there a chance they've made their way under the Tobin? 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    You also expect the continuation of segragated by gender public restrooms and a nice day at the ballpark regardless of how bad Lackey and Napoli produce. 




    King of the non sequitur has spoken :)  Still waiting for your reply on idol worshiping stiffy?  Is it the "gender" & "restroom" thing that turns softy to _______.  OR....  are you hopeful it could veer into your favorite subject???  Wink wink nudge nudge, say no moah!

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    A ridiculous thread; Lackey couldn't win 22+ in AAA 

     




    Wins, is subjective.

     

    Lackey won 12 games in 2011 posting the worst numbers of any starting pitcher ever. This is why the W/L stat carrys absolutely no weight. he can win 25 games next year with similar numbers to 2011 if he has run support and the BP is lights out.

    a pitchers W/L does not reflect his ability.

     




     

    Disagree. Show me the last mediocre 22 game winner.

     




    what about the inverse? I think that illustrates my point just as well of the importance of w/l.

     

    great pitchers with mediorce w/l records:

    lines in bold are pitchers from that year who had a geat w/l record but mediocre stats in comparison to the non-bold lines

     

    Pitcher                         ERA/FIP          W/L

    Kershaw(2012)           2.53/2.89        14/9

    Harrison(2012)          3.29/4.03         18/11

    Lincecum(2011)          2.74/3.17        13/14

    Shields(2011)             2.82/3.42        16/12

    Fister(2011)               2.87/3.03        10/13

    Nova(2011)                3.66/4.01         16/3

    Hernandez(2010)        2.27/3.04        13/12

    Johnson(2010)            2.30/2.41        11/6

    Oswalt(2010)              2.73/3.38        13/13

    Hughes(2010)            4.23/4.30         17/8

    Jurrjens(2009)            2.60/3.68        14/10

    Beckett(2009)            3.86/3.63         17/6

    Peavy(2008)               2.85/3.60        10/11

    Burnett(2008)            4.00/3.45         18/9

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    im not expecting much from Lackey this year (probably more than others though)

    about 150 IP, ERA around 4 (4.2ish).

    maybe shutting him down mid-end season for arm soreness (RDLR/Tazawa is inserted in his place)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.




    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    A ridiculous thread; Lackey couldn't win 22+ in AAA 

    Wins, is subjective.

    Lackey won 12 games in 2011 posting the worst numbers of any starting pitcher ever. This is why the W/L stat carrys absolutely no weight. he can win 25 games next year with similar numbers to 2011 if he has run support and the BP is lights out.

    a pitchers W/L does not reflect his ability.




    Then this was a joke???  Right?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    A ridiculous thread; Lackey couldn't win 22+ in AAA 

    Wins, is subjective.

    Lackey won 12 games in 2011 posting the worst numbers of any starting pitcher ever. This is why the W/L stat carrys absolutely no weight. he can win 25 games next year with similar numbers to 2011 if he has run support and the BP is lights out.

    a pitchers W/L does not reflect his ability.

     




    Then this was a joke???  Right?

     




    not a joke. the part about Lackey winning 25 games was me using a bit of hyperbole. the wins stat is about as important as the brand of cleets a player wears.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     




     

    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???



    Everyone is going to recognize Lackey once he starts pitching. No one else is that bad. He was THE WORST pitcher in the AL, based on ERA, with over 100 IP during the last year he pitched. Not expecting much more from him.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     




     

    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???

     



    Everyone is going to recognize Lackey once he starts pitching. No one else is that bad. He was THE WORST pitcher in the AL, based on ERA, with over 100 IP during the last year he pitched. Not expecting much more from him.

     




    in his defense (it pains me to do so) but he WAS pitching with a shredded elbow AND dealing with all of the flak in his personal life. I really felt bad for the dude despite my hatred of him on the mound. A year off was probably the best thing for him. A year to heal up and put back together his personal life.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    A ridiculous thread; Lackey couldn't win 22+ in AAA 

     




    Wins, is subjective.

     

    Lackey won 12 games in 2011 posting the worst numbers of any starting pitcher ever. This is why the W/L stat carrys absolutely no weight. he can win 25 games next year with similar numbers to 2011 if he has run support and the BP is lights out.

    a pitchers W/L does not reflect his ability.

     




     

    Disagree. Show me the last mediocre 22 game winner.

     




    what about the inverse? I think that illustrates my point just as well of the importance of w/l.

     

    great pitchers with mediorce w/l records:

    lines in bold are pitchers from that year who had a geat w/l record but mediocre stats in comparison to the non-bold lines

     

    Pitcher                         ERA/FIP          W/L

    Kershaw(2012)           2.53/2.89        14/9

    Harrison(2012)          3.29/4.03         18/11

    Lincecum(2011)          2.74/3.17        13/14

    Shields(2011)             2.82/3.42        16/12

    Fister(2011)               2.87/3.03        10/13

    Nova(2011)                3.66/4.01         16/3

    Hernandez(2010)        2.27/3.04        13/12

    Johnson(2010)            2.30/2.41        11/6

    Oswalt(2010)              2.73/3.38        13/13

    Hughes(2010)            4.23/4.30         17/8

    Jurrjens(2009)            2.60/3.68        14/10

    Beckett(2009)            3.86/3.63         17/6

    Peavy(2008)               2.85/3.60        10/11

    Burnett(2008)            4.00/3.45         18/9

     



    You claim it doesn't mean anything. I've showed you otherwise, and via this high effort cherry picking, you've reinforced my point. Of course, there are other factors, such as run support, both lack of (Hernandez, Peavy, Johnson, Oswalt, Lincecum, Kershaw) and the opposite (Beckett, Burnett) or clutch pitching (Nova, and yrs ago Morris). Plus, you're stretching the truth here, i.e Harrison has a mediocre ERA at 3.29? Playing in the AL at Texas stadium? Good for 7th in the league in ERA? Really? It's also notable how most of your high ERAs (DH counts for at least 0.75 runs), are AL and low are the NL (except Hernandez, who plays in a pitchers park with a weak hitting team in tow). Misrepresentative, to say the least.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    Lackey was something like 14 - 1 with 6+ runs in support in 2010.

    Problem solved!  Forget all the other silly stats, like ERA!  Let's just score 6+ runs in each of his starts this coming year.

    Even with an ERA of 4.80ish, which is my guess, he will still be the Cy Young winner with about 25 wins. 

    Some of you are really getting needlessly hung up on small ball stats!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    wink wink ;)

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    Career High Innings - 224 @age 28

    Careen High Wins - 19 @ age 28

    Keep dreamin'.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?


    You claim it doesn't mean anything. I've showed you otherwise, and via this high effort cherry picking, you've reinforced my point. Of course, there are other factors, such as run support, both lack of (Hernandez, Peavy, Johnson, Oswalt, Lincecum, Kershaw) and the opposite (Beckett, Burnett) or clutch pitching (Nova, and yrs ago Morris). Plus, you're stretching the truth here, i.e Harrison has a mediocre ERA at 3.29?

    i said mediorce IN COMPARISON to the non-bold stats.

    Playing in the AL at Texas stadium? Good for 7th in the league in ERA? Really? It's also notable how most of your high ERAs (DH counts for at least 0.75 runs), are AL and low are the NL (except Hernandez, who plays in a pitchers park with a weak hitting team in tow). Misrepresentative, to say the least.

    Do you agree that a qualified sub-par pitcher can lead the league in wins? In theory if he has good run support and a good BP behind him it doesn't matter how good he pitches. A qualified sub-par pitcher CAN NOT lead the league in other pitching stats (like ERA, WHIP, SO/BB etc.) because then he wouldn't be a sub-par pitcher now would he? because what constitutes a good pitcher? good ERA, WHIP SO/9 etc...

     

    In my eyes, W/L should only be used as a tiebreaker in the event that stats between pitchers are extremely close. example: Pitcher A has a 2.68 ERA, 1.116 WHIP, 13-12. Pitcher B has a 2.81 ERA, 1.067 WHIP, 18-5. Then i would say Pitcher B is better. Of course, there are 15 other pitching stats i would use to settle the debate ahead of wins/losses. If judging a pitcher on W/L floats your boat thats fine by me. To each their own. People value different statistics at differing rates. I put 0 value into the W/L stat because of so many variables that determine if a pitcher ends up with a "win" or not. Especially when there are an abundance of other stats that do a much much much much better job of displaying how good a pitcher is.

    I have a similar view on IP, just because a guy pitches 250 innings doesnt mean he is good. it just gives some perspective when comparing other stats between pitchers.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     




     

    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???

     



    Everyone is going to recognize Lackey once he starts pitching. No one else is that bad. He was THE WORST pitcher in the AL, based on ERA, with over 100 IP during the last year he pitched. Not expecting much more from him.

     

     




    in his defense (it pains me to do so) but he WAS pitching with a shredded elbow AND dealing with all of the flak in his personal life. I really felt bad for the dude despite my hatred of him on the mound. A year off was probably the best thing for him. A year to heal up and put back together his personal life.

     



    In his first year in Boston his ERA was 4.40 with a WHIP of 1.419. Those numbers are also mediocre, though obviously better than the year he pitched with a shredded elbow. There is really no reason to expect better numbers that he put up in 2010 here.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     




     

    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???

     



    Everyone is going to recognize Lackey once he starts pitching. No one else is that bad. He was THE WORST pitcher in the AL, based on ERA, with over 100 IP during the last year he pitched. Not expecting much more from him.

     

     




    in his defense (it pains me to do so) but he WAS pitching with a shredded elbow AND dealing with all of the flak in his personal life. I really felt bad for the dude despite my hatred of him on the mound. A year off was probably the best thing for him. A year to heal up and put back together his personal life.

     

     



    In his first year in Boston his ERA was 4.40 with a WHIP of 1.419. Those numbers are also mediocre, though obviously better than the year he pitched with a shredded elbow. There is really no reason to expect better numbers that he put up in 2010 here.

     

     




    good counter-point. can't argue with that pumpsie. They say pitchers often come back from TJS better than before.. maybe that's all we can hope for with lackey


    then again, we said the same thing abouse dice-k last year. Only time will tell

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     




     

    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???

     



    Everyone is going to recognize Lackey once he starts pitching. No one else is that bad. He was THE WORST pitcher in the AL, based on ERA, with over 100 IP during the last year he pitched. Not expecting much more from him.

     

     




    in his defense (it pains me to do so) but he WAS pitching with a shredded elbow AND dealing with all of the flak in his personal life. I really felt bad for the dude despite my hatred of him on the mound. A year off was probably the best thing for him. A year to heal up and put back together his personal life.

     

     



    In his first year in Boston his ERA was 4.40 with a WHIP of 1.419. Those numbers are also mediocre, though obviously better than the year he pitched with a shredded elbow. There is really no reason to expect better numbers that he put up in 2010 here.

     




    Do you know for a fact that he wasn't feeling the elbow in 2010?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to ThefourBs's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    One ray of hope;

    Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo 

    Red Sox manager John Farrell said you won't recognize John Lackey because he's in such great shape. Lackey returns from Tommy J surgery.

     




     

    Don't start getting my hopes up!  Whenever I hear great things about movie, I'm inevitably disappointed.

    Can't we just assume that Lackey will suck & pray he doesn't???

     



    Everyone is going to recognize Lackey once he starts pitching. No one else is that bad. He was THE WORST pitcher in the AL, based on ERA, with over 100 IP during the last year he pitched. Not expecting much more from him.

     

     




    in his defense (it pains me to do so) but he WAS pitching with a shredded elbow AND dealing with all of the flak in his personal life. I really felt bad for the dude despite my hatred of him on the mound. A year off was probably the best thing for him. A year to heal up and put back together his personal life.

     

     



    In his first year in Boston his ERA was 4.40 with a WHIP of 1.419. Those numbers are also mediocre, though obviously better than the year he pitched with a shredded elbow. There is really no reason to expect better numbers that he put up in 2010 here.

     

     




    Do you know for a fact that he wasn't feeling the elbow in 2010?

     



    Nope. I do know that in well over 1000 ABs at Fenway Park his BAA is .300 with an OPSa of .832. He does not pitch well at Fenway, probably because he pitches to contact so much. Hey-I hope he wins >15 games and has an ERA under 4, but I would not bet a penny on it.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from willyssox. Show willyssox's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    Yes! Lackey will be rejuvenated with his old battery mate Napoli.... look for these two to carry the team.




    Are you serious? Lackey is a terrible pitcher and Napoli wont be catching, he'll be playing 1st base.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Can Lackey pitch 225+ innings and win 22+ for us this year?

    In response to mef429's comment:

     


    You claim it doesn't mean anything. I've showed you otherwise, and via this high effort cherry picking, you've reinforced my point. Of course, there are other factors, such as run support, both lack of (Hernandez, Peavy, Johnson, Oswalt, Lincecum, Kershaw) and the opposite (Beckett, Burnett) or clutch pitching (Nova, and yrs ago Morris). Plus, you're stretching the truth here, i.e Harrison has a mediocre ERA at 3.29?

    i said mediorce IN COMPARISON to the non-bold stats.

    Playing in the AL at Texas stadium? Good for 7th in the league in ERA? Really? It's also notable how most of your high ERAs (DH counts for at least 0.75 runs), are AL and low are the NL (except Hernandez, who plays in a pitchers park with a weak hitting team in tow). Misrepresentative, to say the least.

    Do you agree that a qualified sub-par pitcher can lead the league in wins? In theory if he has good run support and a good BP behind him it doesn't matter how good he pitches. A qualified sub-par pitcher CAN NOT lead the league in other pitching stats (like ERA, WHIP, SO/BB etc.) because then he wouldn't be a sub-par pitcher now would he? because what constitutes a good pitcher? good ERA, WHIP SO/9 etc...

     

    In my eyes, W/L should only be used as a tiebreaker in the event that stats between pitchers are extremely close. example: Pitcher A has a 2.68 ERA, 1.116 WHIP, 13-12. Pitcher B has a 2.81 ERA, 1.067 WHIP, 18-5. Then i would say Pitcher B is better. Of course, there are 15 other pitching stats i would use to settle the debate ahead of wins/losses. If judging a pitcher on W/L floats your boat thats fine by me. To each their own. People value different statistics at differing rates. I put 0 value into the W/L stat because of so many variables that determine if a pitcher ends up with a "win" or not. Especially when there are an abundance of other stats that do a much much much much better job of displaying how good a pitcher is.

    I have a similar view on IP, just because a guy pitches 250 innings doesnt mean he is good. it just gives some perspective when comparing other stats between pitchers.

     



    I guess you don't value inning eaters/bull dogs; that's not what all MLB coaching staffs think. To each his own, And if it means nothing, there would be no tie breaker. But I don't go along with this anyway. BTW, there are NO 300 GWs (except Clemens) who are NOT in the HOF.   

     
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