Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    I don't make one-game projections.
    Try collecting money at the window for being wrong.
    One run is not a shutout. You said you were right on the money. No money.

    Pessimism is a cop-out.
    Tell me now: Will the RedSox make the playoffs? Do you make more than just one-game predictions?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : Yeah. Brilliant Harness. One run, not a shutout. And 8 1/3 , not a complete game. Okay , happy now?  Big deal. The point was and is , Shields totally outpitched Lester.  Were you surprised?   I was not.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    Yes but why is your prediction more important than your fandom? Are you a fan of yourself in a pizzing contest or are you a Red Sox fan? Who cares about your predictions, this isn't OTB or a Las Vegas Casino. Why should you score points here on hoping that Shields outpitches Lester. Are you really a Sox fan? Looks like your forum ego trumps your fandom - just like contrarian Softlaw. What a sad forum.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    I don't make one-game projections. Try collecting money at the window for being wrong. One run is not a shutout. You said you were right on the money. No money. Pessimism is a cop-out. Tell me now: Will the RedSox make the playoffs? Do you make more than just one-game predictions?
    Posted by harness

    I sincerely hope the Sox make the playoffs and win it all. But, they will have to play much better than they have. You sir , sound like a pompous fool , who sees himself as the self appointed leader of this board.  My prediction is that you will continue to play your silly role for more than just one game.
     
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    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : I sincerely hope the Sox make the playoffs and win it all. But, they will have to play much better than they have. You sir , sound like a pompous fool , who sees himself as the self appointed leader of this board.  My prediction is that you will continue to play your silly role for more than just one game.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    Pompous fools make one-game projections and then can't own up to when they are actually wrong. Tell me, why start an attack when I simply corrected your projection. Is UR ego that fragile?

    Why is it you predict one game but won't project whether or not the team is playoff bound? I too hope they will get in. The difference is, I am saying they will make the post season. Can you make such a commitment?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : Pompous fools make one-game projections and then can't own up to when they are actually wrong. Tell me, why start an attack when I simply corrected your projection. Is UR ego that fragile? Why is it you predict one game but won't project whether or not the team is playoff bound? I too hope they will get in. The difference is, I am saying they will make the post season. Can you make such a commitment?
    Posted by harness

    No , a pompous fool is one who tries to confuse the issue to avoid facing reality. Read my post. I said that Lester would probably get in early pitch count trouble. Did he?  Yes , he surely did.  I said that Shields may pitch a complete game shutout. Did he ? Not quite , but very close to it. I'm sure you get the point, but just cannot bring yourself to admit it.  But that's okay.  I understand. After all , you are the leader here.  And yes , I will predict that the Sox hold on and make the post season.  You just " may " want to put some money on it , at the window , since I have a pretty good track record.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : No , a pompous fool is one who tries to confuse the issue to avoid facing reality. Read my post. I said that Lester would probably get in early pitch count trouble. Did he?  Yes , he surely did.  I said that Shields may pitch a complete game shutout. Did he ? Not quite , but very close to it. I'm sure you get the point, but just cannot bring yourself to admit it.  But that's okay.  I understand. After all , you are the leader here.  And yes , I will predict that the Sox hold on and make the post season.  You just " may " want to put some money on it , at the window , since I have a pretty good track record.
    Posted by dgalehouse



    Really? I wasn't aware of it. Where else have you been almost right?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : No , a pompous fool is one who tries to confuse the issue to avoid facing reality. Read my post. I said that Lester would probably get in early pitch count trouble. Did he?  Yes , he surely did.  I said that Shields may pitch a complete game shutout. Did he ? Not quite , but very close to it. I'm sure you get the point, but just cannot bring yourself to admit it.  But that's okay.  I understand. After all , you are the leader here.  And yes , I will predict that the Sox hold on and make the post season.  You just " may " want to put some money on it , at the window , since I have a pretty good track record.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    How does a fan predict that an ace pitcher is going to have control problems in the first inning of his next start? Tell me, I am curious on how your black box computer model or crystal ball arrived at that prediction? Can you help me pick some common stocks that will be sure winners in this down financial market?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    yes, now let's rip the 15-7 guy because he didnt throw a 7 Ip, 11 K shutout today. Obviously, some of you fans can't handle the pressure of a Sox 4.5 game lead. I lead the league on this forum for doomsaying and I even think this is an alltime bonehead thread. You guys are beyond belief. Lester is one of the 10 best pitchers in the AL not named Verlander, Weaver, Haren, and a few others. He threw a ridiculous amount of pitches for 4 IP, and he had an off day. End of story. As for big game pitching, when are some of our vaunted hitters going to help the team out.
    Posted by dannycater
      I agree wholeheartedly and will attempt to put an end the absurd notion that Jon Lester has not been the "ace" of the Red Sox pitching staff since the 2008 season by comparing him to the immortal Josh Beckett who has emerged from the rubble to have his best season since 2007.  Lester is simply having a normal season by his high standards.  During the past 3 seasons (2008 to 2010) Lester has won 50 games and lost 23. He made 97 starts with 6 complete games, 621 2/3 IP, 555 hits (that's really good), only gave up 48 HR, 602 K's, BAA of .240, OBP of .308, SLG .353 and OPS .661.

    Contrast those numbers with Beckett's 35 and 22 record, 4.39 ERA, 80 starts, 5 CG, 514 1/3 IP with 522 hits (that's not good), 63 HR (not good), 487 K's, .260 BAA, OBP of .313, SLG .422 and OPS .735.   It's not even debatable as to has been the more dominant pitcher over a reasonable period of time to objectively evaluate performance.  

    If that's not enough for some, I believe that is fair and reasonable to evaluate a pitcher by how he has done within the division and against current "potential" postseason teams.  Within the division during the last 3 years, Lester is 10 and 0 vs the Orioles (2.19 ERA), 6 and 1 vs the Yankees (2.56 ERA), 8 and 3 vs the Rays (3.27 ERA) and 7 and 4 against eh Jays (3.62).  During the same timeframe, Beckett was 2 and 2 against the Orioles (4.01 ERA), 6 and 4 against the hated Yankees (6.09 ERA), 4 and 2 against the Rays (3.06 ERA) and 0 and 3 against the Jays (11.85 ERA).  

    Finally for what it's worth Lester was 3 and 1 against the Rangers (2.62 ERA), 1 and 0 against the Angels (3.42 ERA) and 0 and 2 against the Tigers in 3 starts (5.89 ERA).  Beckett was 1 and 1 against the Rangers (6.12 ERA), 1 and 4 against the Angels (5.98 ERA) and 3 and 0 against the Tigers with an impressive 1.25 ERA.  When all is said and done, Lester has been not only better, but much more often than not siginificantly better against all of the teams in the division and 2 of the 3 playoff contenders in the Central and the West than Josh Beckett who is the "ace" of the staff in 2011, but has not been that since Jon Lester was inserted as a regular in the team's starting rotation in 2008.  His career record against the Yankees alone compared to that of Beckett should be unto itself sufficient to fairly characterize him as a "big game" pitcher.  

    For bobblehead fans who actually think that guys like Gammons, McAdam, Cafardo, Dennis and Callahan, et. al. who want Beckett for subjective reasons only known to them to be considered the unquestioned "ace" of the staff so be it.  Remember, however, that in doing so they are ignoring the consistently outstanding work of a pitcher considered one of the top left-handed pitchers in the game by knowledgeable fans outside of New England.  Given a choice the mob of Yankee fans would be shouting to the mountaintops, "give us Beckett" or anyone but Lester anytime of year.  Unto iself that should be enough to answer the question:  "How empty is theory in the presence of fact?"

     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : Really? I wasn't aware of it. Where else have you been almost right ?
    Posted by harness

    When I said that you were a pompous fool , I was 100% right. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : How does a fan predict that an ace pitcher is going to have control problems in the first inning of his next start? Tell me, I am curious on how your black box computer model or crystal ball arrived at that prediction? Can you help me pick some common stocks that will be sure winners in this down financial market?
    Posted by BeaconHill19



    DGalehouse: How about a reply  to this. It is a legitimate question.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bad-Scene-. Show Bad-Scene-'s posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : Yeah. Brilliant Harness. One run, not a shutout. And 8 1/3 , not a complete game. Okay , happy now?  Big deal. The point was and is , Shields totally outpitched Lester.  Were you surprised?   I was not.
    Posted by dgalehouse


    Lester is not a true ace.  Beckett when healthy and on his game is a true ace but I've always seen Lester as a very good #2
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    I love it, andrewmitch, someone talking about statistical modeling and forecasting, not just the usual "averages"!! I am all in with Lester, think he is a good pitcher (now you do have to take into account his career W-L!), and expect, like many other RS fans, that more than anything I hope he performs well, because of what he has overcome to get here. But in truth, like you, I am not convinced he is a big game pitcher, and unfortunately you can say that about most of the RS pitchers.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    I love it, andrewmitch, someone talking about statistical modeling and forecasting, not just the usual "averages"!! I am all in with Lester, think he is a good pitcher (now you do have to take into account his career W-L!), and expect, like many other RS fans, that more than anything I hope he performs well, because of what he has overcome to get here. But in truth, like you, I am not convinced he is a big game pitcher, and unfortunately you can say that about most of the RS pitchers.
    Posted by pschuller


    Maybe, but you can say it about most major league pitchers in fact.  If you disagree, try and come up with a list of active pitchers who have really impressive 'big-game' resumes.

    Curt Schillings are few and far between.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : Lester is not a true ace.  Beckett when healthy and on his game is a true ace but I've always seen Lester as a very good #2
    Posted by Bad-Scene-


    Why get so involved in ranking Lester vs. Beckett. Why is it so important to a Yankee fan. You should be more concerned about having to play Posada as catcher in light of injuries to Martin and Cervelli.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    The fact is that teams like Tampa and Philly let there starters go 7+ every single start unless they are totally getting their azzes kicked. Tito has pulled every single starter regardless of performance or importance of specific game... and this has gone on all year even when they are healthy.

    Lester couldn't pitch 8 if he wanted to at this point.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bad-Scene-. Show Bad-Scene-'s posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : Why get so involved in ranking Lester vs. Beckett. Why is it so important to a Yankee fan. You should be more concerned about having to play Posada as catcher in light of injuries to Martin and Cervelli.
    Posted by BeaconHill19


    Its baseball related and the Sox are the Yanks biggest rival. As for Martin and Cervelli we are seeing Montero and Romine step in, Posada was just for that one game.
     
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    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    The fact is that teams like Tampa and Philly let there starters go 7+ every single start unless they are totally getting their azzes kicked. Tito has pulled every single starter regardless of performance or importance of specific game... and this has gone on all year even when they are healthy.
    Posted by BurritoT


    Not really, Burrito, it's all about pitch counts everywhere in baseball.

    Halladay and Lee have been very efficient with their pitch counts so they have gone deeper in games on average.

    But Halladay and Lee have been allowed to throw 125 pitches or more this year exactly once each, the same number of times as Beckett and Lester.  Lester has just been horribly inefficient in a couple of recent starts like yesterday's.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    I thought everyone was aware of pitch counts and how often managers rely on it.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    Bonehead thread.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    Response to
    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure? : How does a fan predict that an ace pitcher is going to have control problems in the first inning of his next start? Tell me, I am curious on how your black box computer model or crystal ball arrived at that prediction? Can you help me pick some common stocks that will be sure winners in this down financial market?
    DGalehouse: How about a reply  to this. It is a legitimate question---beaconhill 19
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I happen to like Lester, but it's not much of a reach to predict that he might have pitch count issues. Guy is a nibbler and simply throws a lot of pitches.

    As for Harness and beaconhill19 pounding this guy, that seems pretty silly. Looks to me like it was two solid calls----dgalehouse had both Lester and Shields spot on.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    In Response to Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?:
    Bonehead thread.
    Posted by dannycater


    Hey Danny,

    I think the more legit question is not whether he can handle the pressure but rather. Is Lester a big game pitcher in the Curt Schilling-Beckett mold...The type that steps up and puts up zero's and has a dominate post season stretch...to date I haven't seen that guy...certainly not in either post seasons of 2008 or 2009...

    Yesterday was a big game and he spit the bit...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    bean, let's give him the benefit of the doubt for 2011. Until he starts a playoff game this season, I can't answer your question, and really no one on this board can either. 2.57 ERA, 1.12 WHIP in 42 career playoff innings, I was at his 2009 playoff start, in fact I'm looking ironically at the ticket stub on my work wall...he threw 6 IP, 4 hits, and he gave up a 3-run homer to Tori Hunter...It was scoreless after 4 innings of work. His opponent pitcher threw 7-1/3 4 hits, and shutout the Sox offense---JOHN LACKEY....So how do you determine what a big game pitcher is. How many times has Lester thrown a great game in the regular season...countless times. He's been pretty good overall in the postseason, dominating v. the Angels in the 2008 ALDS--14 IP, 0 ER (1 run) 10 hits, 0.92 WHIP...pretty big game to me...you guys just are fishing for whatever you can find to make Lester look bad. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    You want Lester to go 9 innings and shutout the other team, well, get in line for every other pitcher in baseball not named Justin Verlander.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    or Halladay and Lee. BONEHEAD THREAD.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Can Lester Handle the Pressure?

    by the way, 2008 was a dominating stretch of zeroes....the ALDS v. Angels.
     
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