"Can we all agree now that Reddick for Bailey was a bad trade?"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re:

    I don't agree.  I think Reddick had to leave Boston to find himself and Bailey was a good acquisition.   As others have said, both teams benefitted. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

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    Like far too many fans you all bandie around the word GREAT.  

    Reddick had a very good Hr season and an average rest of the season. GG is so subjective IMHO it has little meaning. But he isa very decent OF. 

    Bailey has achieved very little so far and saying one or the other team won is foolish at this point. Pastry the As got the better of the deal because of Bailey'sinjury. This yr so far Reddick ISNOT doing well and Bailey is.

    any one who says one is better than the other and one team got the better of the deals is only working to make their preferences and theory's of the trade when it happened be right And are not working in facts.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

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    I wish Reddick the very best.  He's already won a gold glove and his team are defending AL West Champs.  

    I also wish the very best for the other 30 former Red Sox players on the A's team.   LOL

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

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    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     

     



    What is Reddicks OPS since the all star game?   580 or something?

     



    Exactly, GEO is being critical of bailey's recent performances, but ignoring Reddick's much longer time frame of underperforming.

    Reddick started out strong last year and made the All Star Game. Bailey was hurt last year and struggled when he returned in a small sample size.

    This year is certainly a small sample size, but Bailey has done well. One blown save and a couple of close calls is better than average.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

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    Shumpster Ghost wrote: "Spring is part of it - the other indicator is he pitched horribly last year"

     Southpaw777 wrote:

    When you can trade a guy whos a 4th OF'er on your team for a ROY, 2-time AS closer and a great defense, no-pop LHH, you do it.

    Bailey got hurt last year and all I can remember was people giving his stats upon returning, Like Shump, to justify their disdain for the trade. after being out all year with a thumb injury to his throwing hand, they actually judged him on those one month sample size numbers. Sorry, but thats weaker than weak, especially when guys that know the game do that. Bailey had a superb track record as one one the best closers in the game.

    [/QUOTE]

    See Shump, I didnt need to lie.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

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    1. Bailey's whole career? Good reliever but not a "great" closer. He pitched very well in oakland. Not an elite closer - and questions about whether he can handle the pressure.     2. If everyone "knows" that Bailey is a great reliever - why did the Red Sox acquire Hanrahan and hand him the closer job? Seems to blow that theory out of the water. unless the Soz front office doesn't have access to baseball reference?   3. Moon: It is unseemly that you always resort to "If the gold glove was legitimate..." And others seem to want to discount GG as "subjective"  - okay then Ozzie Smith shouldn't be in the Hall.   4. Snake: I didn't freak out about anything last year - obviously you were irritated by Bailey's horribly weak season. the annoying part of the discussion last year was when apologists insisted that Reddick was not having a good year. You are still one of those people. All star, 32 HRs, Gold Glove, team leader on a team that way over achieved and made the playoffs - and all you can talk about is his strikeouts.   5. Strikeouts are outs. How is a pop out to 2nd base better than a K? It isn't but some people think it is, I guess.   6.  Oh - and on sample sizes:  Bailey pitched 40% of a season last year - look at his inning totals.     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

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    Urban Legend:  2012 was too small a sample size for Bailey.

     

    He pitched 41 innings!  That is close to 50% of his normal inning totals for a season.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

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    Urban Legend:  Reddick got off to a hot start in 2012

    End of april he was hitting .270 with 4 Hrs and 9 RBI

    No one was talking about him

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    3. Moon: It is unseemly that you always resort to "If the gold glove was legitimate..." And others seem to want to discount GG as "subjective"  - okay then Ozzie Smith shouldn't be in the Hall. 

     

    Dude, I never said every GG winner is not deserving of the award, but when history shows that they once voted for a guy who only played 11 games at the position, the award might be flawed.

    Reddick is a fine RF'er, and was certainly not undeserving of the GG award, but since mid last year, his fielding has not o0utweighed his batting by any stretch of the imagination.

    Look, I'm not saying the trade was good or bad. Like I said last year and still believe today, we won't know until their contracts are up. Right now, the pendulum is certainly swinging back towards Bailey. It's debateable if it has gone past the halfway point, but you have to admit, your position is not as strong as it was last July.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

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    Urban Legend:  Reddick got off to a hot start in 2012

    End of april he was hitting .270 with 4 Hrs and 9 RBI

    No one was talking about him

     

    That is a hot start... for a career .240 hitter. (BTW, it was .277 not .270.)

    He never had a month better than .269 after April.

     

    By May 11th he was hitting .292.

    By May 28th he had a .906 OPS.

    I wasn't aware that a hot start meant only April, but I guess it's all about perspective.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    1. Bailey's whole career? Good reliever but not a "great" closer. He pitched very well in oakland. Not an elite closer - and questions about whether he can handle the pressure.     2. If everyone "knows" that Bailey is a great reliever - why did the Red Sox acquire Hanrahan and hand him the closer job? Seems to blow that theory out of the water. unless the Soz front office doesn't have access to baseball reference?   3. Moon: It is unseemly that you always resort to "If the gold glove was legitimate..." And others seem to want to discount GG as "subjective"  - okay then Ozzie Smith shouldn't be in the Hall.   4. Snake: I didn't freak out about anything last year - obviously you were irritated by Bailey's horribly weak season. the annoying part of the discussion last year was when apologists insisted that Reddick was not having a good year. You are still one of those people. All star, 32 HRs, Gold Glove, team leader on a team that way over achieved and made the playoffs - and all you can talk about is his strikeouts.   5. Strikeouts are outs. How is a pop out to 2nd base better than a K? It isn't but some people think it is, I guess.   6.  Oh - and on sample sizes:  Bailey pitched 40% of a season last year - look at his inning totals.     



    That just about says it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

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    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    1. Bailey's whole career? Good reliever but not a "great" closer. He pitched very well in oakland. Not an elite closer - and questions about whether he can handle the pressure.     2. If everyone "knows" that Bailey is a great reliever - why did the Red Sox acquire Hanrahan and hand him the closer job? Seems to blow that theory out of the water. unless the Soz front office doesn't have access to baseball reference?   3. Moon: It is unseemly that you always resort to "If the gold glove was legitimate..." And others seem to want to discount GG as "subjective"  - okay then Ozzie Smith shouldn't be in the Hall.   4. Snake: I didn't freak out about anything last year - obviously you were irritated by Bailey's horribly weak season. the annoying part of the discussion last year was when apologists insisted that Reddick was not having a good year. You are still one of those people. All star, 32 HRs, Gold Glove, team leader on a team that way over achieved and made the playoffs - and all you can talk about is his strikeouts.   5. Strikeouts are outs. How is a pop out to 2nd base better than a K? It isn't but some people think it is, I guess.   6.  Oh - and on sample sizes:  Bailey pitched 40% of a season last year- look at his inning totals.     



    seriously? He started his season in Mid August and they threw him into the fire because Ace was terrible...sighting a month and a half of stats after returning from a thumb injury on his throwing hand? come on shump. You know baseball.

     

    Red is a decent player with good power good defense and no patience at the plate. hes a streaky hitter who hasnt show to come through at the plate when it counted. Thats what his stats say.

    Bailey is ROTY with 2 AS closer appearences and you sight stats after returning from basically a year long injury after the team officially "gave up" on the year.

    Personally, I think each team got what they needed, as Ive stated all along. Both teams won. The sox just had to wait until this year for it to pay off. Last year was a lost year anyway, so in hindsight its no big deal.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

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    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    I don't agree.  I think Reddick had to leave Boston to find himself and Bailey was a good acquisition.   As others have said, both teams benefitted. 

     

     

     both teams benefitted.

     

    I'm good with that

    but am a tad bothered with so many last yr saying

    you can't judge a trade by 1 season

    but are now saying you can judge a trade after 1season 1 month 3 weeks

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

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    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    I don't agree.  I think Reddick had to leave Boston to find himself and Bailey was a good acquisition.   As others have said, both teams benefitted. 

     

     

     both teams benefitted.

     

    I'm good with that

    but am a tad bothered with so many last yr saying

    you can't judge a trade by 1 season

    but are now saying you can judge a trade after 1season 1 month 3 weeks




    Bailey is a ROTY and 2 time AS closer. He had value before the trade. Injury doesnt take that away. Red had nothing in MLB to judge from. But...with that said....

    I think both teams got what they wanted/needed and in that regard, both won.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

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    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    Phil Plantier, Sam Horn, Shea Hillbrand, Tod Benzinger, Scott Cooper, Reid Nichols, Steve Lyons, Juan Beniquez, Donnie Sadler, Josh Reddick 

    I can't believe that Theo Epstein traded Shea to Arizona for BH Kim.  

    I'm Korean but I hate BH Kim (I know the Yankees love him LOL).  

     

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

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    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     


    i guess 32 homeruns and a gold glove is not impressive for you...you would rather have a one inning specialist who pitched poorly for most of the year...

    you are seriously losing whatever impartiality you once had....bailey looked like a journeyman pitcher last night - with ANY plate discipline last nite the A's wouldve lit him up....the sox were very lucky

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

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    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     

     


    i guess 32 homeruns and a gold glove is not impressive for you...you would rather have a one inning specialist who pitched poorly for most of the year...

     

    you are seriously losing whatever impartiality you once had....bailey looked like a journeyman pitcher last night - with ANY plate discipline last nite the A's wouldve lit him up....the sox were very lucky

     




    Sorry, but EVERY closer isnt going to pitch perfectly every game. Bailey has had a couple rough outings, but has still kept his composure and pulled through. Hes also had some very easy games in which he was basically unhittable. The final result is he has converted 5 of 6 save opps. has a 1.59ERA O.794whip ERA+ 274 15.9 K/9 and is 1-0. He has 20K 4bb 5H and 2ER in 11.1IP.  Hes showing why he was ROTY and a 2 time AS closer.

    The truth is the trade worked out well for both teams. the both got what they needed/wanted. win win.

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re:

    Bailey got an incomplete grade last year, obviously.  The returns this year are promising and timely given Hanrahan's performance.  I wonder how Farrel will address the situation once Hanny comes off of the DL?  Worst case scenario, the Sox have two guys who are capable of closing.  Best case scenario - both perform and maybe Ben has an asset at the trade deadline to get something else they need.  Will one of the two slide into the setup role?  What if Bard can regain his form?  The Sox seem to have a lot of options for the later innings, which is never a bad thing. 


    Re: Reddick, I think it's always better to look at the big picture and and long term when making statements on who got the better of the deal.  Still too early to tell. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Urban Legend:  Reddick got off to a hot start in 2012

    End of april he was hitting .270 with 4 Hrs and 9 RBI

    No one was talking about him

     

    That is a hot start... for a career .240 hitter. (BTW, it was .277 not .270.)

    He never had a month better than .269 after April.

     

    By May 11th he was hitting .292.

    By May 28th he had a .906 OPS.

    I wasn't aware that a hot start meant only April, but I guess it's all about perspective.



    Reddick didn't have a hot start - he had an icy finish.  Same was true in 2011, and is not uncommon with young players adjusting to a full game schedule.  

    I was impressed with his OPS of .840 last July.  I was impressed with his 6 HRs and 23 RBIs in August.  I was impressed with his OPS over 1 this Spring.  He's a very good hitter and a terrific fielder.  Bailey is also very good, so I'm not bitter at all about the trade; but Reddick is better than you are giving him credit for.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

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    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Urban Legend:  2012 was too small a sample size for Bailey.

     

    He pitched 41 innings!  That is close to 50% of his normal inning totals for a season.



    Bailey only pitched 15.1 last year.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re:

    2012 season = Oakland wins out on the trade big time

    2013 season = jury still out (obviously the 10% of the season edge goes to Redsox)

    to gloat last year was silly

    to gloat for 2013 at this point is just as silly

     
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