"Can we all agree now that Reddick for Bailey was a bad trade?"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re:

    but am a tad bothered with so many last yr saying

    you can't judge a trade by 1 season

    but are now saying you can judge a trade after 1season 1 month 3 weeks

     

    I don't know that anyone is saying that. Bailey will only turn 29 next month and isn't eligible for free agency until after next season (2014); obviously the full results of this trade will take years to determine. People's opinions will continue to update and changed based on what happens from here on out; I'm optimistic about the long-term outlook for the trade, but maybe Reddick turns into a consistent star and Bailey struggles. No one can say. The point is certainly not that after 1 season and 3 weeks we know all that we need to know...rather it's quite the opposite: that the early results from this season show that those who wanted to write the trade off as terrible once and for all last year (based on Bailey getting injured and then looking rusty in the 15 innings - not 41 - he did pitch) were foolish to do so.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re:

    Judging Bailey 2012 as bad is akin to Softy's judging Ellsbury 2010 and 2012 as bad.  If a guy spends most of the year on the DL, it is bad.  But to chalk it up as that player being bad, well, that is just a spurilous argument.  You have to have a skewed agenda to actually come with that argument and feel good about it.

    Reddick wins the trade balance in 2012 by default, not performance.  And anyone who points to Bailey's 40 innings in the latter portion of the year doesn't understand, or just doesn't want to give credence to, the difficulty of coming back from months on the DL midstream in an unfamiliar role.  

    I love Josh Reddick.  Loved him with the Sox and was sad to see him go.  But, the Bailey move had to be made, and i certainly still hold the jury on Bailey.  However, Geo, you have an axe to grind and it is clear.  Bailey looks iffy to you?  Really?  He has been filthy.  Yes, he blew one save and got lucky on the Jed hit last night.  But, show me the closer who doesn't have to escape sometimes.  Don't tell me Papelbon.  That guy left the building long before the he left the Sox.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     

     


    i guess 32 homeruns and a gold glove is not impressive for you...you would rather have a one inning specialist who pitched poorly for most of the year...

     

    you are seriously losing whatever impartiality you once had....bailey looked like a journeyman pitcher last night - with ANY plate discipline last nite the A's wouldve lit him up....the sox were very lucky



    Are you impressed with these numbers: .215/.256/.391/.647?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Judging Bailey 2012 as bad is akin to Softy's judging Ellsbury 2010 and 2012 as bad.  If a guy spends most of the year on the DL, it is bad.  But to chalk it up as that player being bad, well, that is just a spurilous argument.  You have to have a skewed agenda to actually come with that argument and feel good about it.

    Reddick wins the trade balance in 2012 by default, not performance.  And anyone who points to Bailey's 40 innings in the latter portion of the year doesn't understand, or just doesn't want to give credence to, the difficulty of coming back from months on the DL midstream in an unfamiliar role.  

    I love Josh Reddick.  Loved him with the Sox and was sad to see him go.  But, the Bailey move had to be made, and i certainly still hold the jury on Bailey.  However, Geo, you have an axe to grind and it is clear.  Bailey looks iffy to you?  Really?  He has been filthy.  Yes, he blew one save and got lucky on the Jed hit last night.  But, show me the closer who doesn't have to escape sometimes.  Don't tell me Papelbon.  That guy left the building long before the he left the Sox.



    Bieluy has pitched about 26 inning with the Sox. 11 of them this year.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    Urban Legend:  2012 was too small a sample size for Bailey.

     

    He pitched 41 innings!  That is close to 50% of his normal inning totals for a season.



    Urban fact: He pitched 15.1 innings in 2012.

    Urban fact: Career ERA 2.42

    Urban fact: Career WHIP 1.017

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     

     


    i guess 32 homeruns and a gold glove is not impressive for you...you would rather have a one inning specialist who pitched poorly for most of the year...

     

    you are seriously losing whatever impartiality you once had....bailey looked like a journeyman pitcher last night - with ANY plate discipline last nite the A's wouldve lit him up....the sox were very lucky



    Um, Bailey did get lucky on the Lowrie call.  But he looked like anything but a journeyman.  You chalk the A's swinging and missing up to lack of plate discipline.  A less agenda-driven notion says it is hard to not swing when a guy is bringing a non-stop of barrage of 96-97 mile an hour heat around the plate and then salting in filthy breaking stuff.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re:

    It was a good trade. Granted, Bailey didn't help last year becauuse he was one more car off the rails in the train wreck that was the 2012 season. He seems to be back on track this year. I say let's give him a chance and see how he does this season before calling the trade a bust.

    As for Reddick, love the guy. Sorry to see him go but you have to give something good to get something good (cliche, I know, but that doesn't make it any less true). What I don't get is people who just can't let go of players who were once part of the Sox system. I haven't seen it posted lately, but I'll bet there are still some folks that want Hanley Ramirez back.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     

     


    i guess 32 homeruns and a gold glove is not impressive for you...you would rather have a one inning specialist who pitched poorly for most of the year...

     

    you are seriously losing whatever impartiality you once had....bailey looked like a journeyman pitcher last night - with ANY plate discipline last nite the A's wouldve lit him up....the sox were very lucky

     



    Um, Bailey did get lucky on the Lowrie call.  But he looked like anything but a journeyman.  You chalk the A's swinging and missing up to lack of plate discipline.  A less agenda-driven notion says it is hard to not swing when a guy is bringing a non-stop of barrage of 96-97 mile an hour heat around the plate and then salting in filthy breaking stuff.  

     



    This is GeoRom refusing to admit he was wrong.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re:

    Plus, the 15 innings in 2012 were more or less Bailey's spring training.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re:

    Bailey for Reddick was a terrible trade...............for Oakland!  Reddick was never going to be a fulltime player for the Sox and his average is making it appear he will be a platoon guy for most of his career.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    1. Bailey's whole career? Good reliever but not a "great" closer. He pitched very well in oakland. Not an elite closer - and questions about whether he can handle the pressure.     2. If everyone "knows" that Bailey is a great reliever - why did the Red Sox acquire Hanrahan and hand him the closer job? Seems to blow that theory out of the water. unless the Soz front office doesn't have access to baseball reference?   3. Moon: It is unseemly that you always resort to "If the gold glove was legitimate..." And others seem to want to discount GG as "subjective"  - okay then Ozzie Smith shouldn't be in the Hall.   4. Snake: I didn't freak out about anything last year - obviously you were irritated by Bailey's horribly weak season. the annoying part of the discussion last year was when apologists insisted that Reddick was not having a good year. You are still one of those people. All star, 32 HRs, Gold Glove, team leader on a team that way over achieved and made the playoffs - and all you can talk about is his strikeouts.   5. Strikeouts are outs. How is a pop out to 2nd base better than a K? It isn't but some people think it is, I guess.   6.  Oh - and on sample sizes:  Bailey pitched 40% of a season last year - look at his inning totals.     


    My point was pretty simple. You said that a good "indicator" of how good Bailey was was 2012, when he was injured.

    I would think that a better indicator would be his entire career,and not the year he was hurt.

    I am sure you agree with me. Pretty much anyone would.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re:

    In response to splendidsplinterteddyballgame's comment:

     

    Bailey for Reddick was a terrible trade...............for Oakland!  Reddick was never going to be a fulltime player for the Sox and his average is making it appear he will be a platoon guy for most of his career.

     




    LOL...Bailey has NEVER pitched more than 50 innings except for his first year...he is the Jed Lowrie/JD Drew of relievers

     

    he is a lightweight - reddick is a gold glover and bopper who hit more homers last year than any member of the sox...bailey could be easily replaced and not missed by at least four current relievers

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re:

    sniff.....

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    he is a lightweight - reddick is a gold glover and bopper who hit more homers last year than any member of the sox...bailey could be easily replaced and not missed by at least four current relievers



    This is silly.  Bailey has pitched superbly so far in 2013.  2 runs and 20 K's in 11.1 innings.  Not easy to replace at all.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    Wasn't this the rallying cry of a certain group of posters last season who were eager to tell everyone that the verdict was in on this trade, the book was closed, and all that was left to do was chant in unison that it was the dumbest move by the dumbest GM in the history of ever?

    Lonely indeed it was for those few of us with the temerity to argue that the trade made sense on paper and that maybe - crazy, I know - we might need to wait more than one season to see how things would shake out.

    It's early, yes...but Bailey is finally healthy and (a couple of hiccups aside) looking like a beast. Reddick, on the other hand, is looking, well, kind of overrated...as many said that he was. And I like Reddick, for what he is; but I'll take the once and future All-Star closer every day, thank you.



    At the time it looked like a pretty good trade "then not" and now yes again which is why this game is so unpredictable.  Look at our SS position now and how well Lowrie is doing, its not often a trade ends up lop sided for one club or another because each year is different. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    Wasn't this the rallying cry of a certain group of posters last season who were eager to tell everyone that the verdict was in on this trade, the book was closed, and all that was left to do was chant in unison that it was the dumbest move by the dumbest GM in the history of ever?

    Lonely indeed it was for those few of us with the temerity to argue that the trade made sense on paper and that maybe - crazy, I know - we might need to wait more than one season to see how things would shake out.

    It's early, yes...but Bailey is finally healthy and (a couple of hiccups aside) looking like a beast. Reddick, on the other hand, is looking, well, kind of overrated...as many said that he was. And I like Reddick, for what he is; but I'll take the once and future All-Star closer every day, thank you.

     



    At the time it looked like a pretty good trade "then not" and now yes again which is why this game is so unpredictable.  Look at our SS position now and how well Lowrie is doing, its not often a trade ends up lop sided for one club or another because each year is different. 

     



    Which I think is the whole point of the thread. People saying a trade is dumb because one guy involved was injured does not demonstrate many complex thinking skills.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to splendidsplinterteddyballgame's comment:

     

    Bailey for Reddick was a terrible trade...............for Oakland!  Reddick was never going to be a fulltime player for the Sox and his average is making it appear he will be a platoon guy for most of his career.

     




    LOL...Bailey has NEVER pitched more than 50 innings except for his first year...he is the Jed Lowrie/JD Drew of relievers

     

    he is a lightweight - reddick is a gold glover and bopper who hit more homers last year than any member of the sox...bailey could be easily replaced and not missed by at least four current relievers

     



    This is crazy. You can't admit you're wrong so you go and make crazy claims? He is hands down the best reliever in the bullpen right now and could be even Hannarhan gets back. Overall Reddick offense proformance was that great last year and faded in when in matter the most.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re:

    In response to 37stories's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    Wasn't this the rallying cry of a certain group of posters last season who were eager to tell everyone that the verdict was in on this trade, the book was closed, and all that was left to do was chant in unison that it was the dumbest move by the dumbest GM in the history of ever?

    Lonely indeed it was for those few of us with the temerity to argue that the trade made sense on paper and that maybe - crazy, I know - we might need to wait more than one season to see how things would shake out.

    It's early, yes...but Bailey is finally healthy and (a couple of hiccups aside) looking like a beast. Reddick, on the other hand, is looking, well, kind of overrated...as many said that he was. And I like Reddick, for what he is; but I'll take the once and future All-Star closer every day, thank you.

     



    At the time it looked like a pretty good trade "then not" and now yes again which is why this game is so unpredictable.  Look at our SS position now and how well Lowrie is doing, its not often a trade ends up lop sided for one club or another because each year is different. 

     

     



    Which I think is the whole point of the thread. People saying a trade is dumb because one guy involved was injured does not demonstrate many complex thinking skills.

     



    True, anything can and usually does happen after making trades.  We traded Masterson to get a better offensive catcher because it was badly needed, as was a closer after Pap left. 

    Trades usually involve a lot luck to suceed, like getting rid of Youk and not resigning him to back up 1B/3B and DH.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    but am a tad bothered with so many last yr saying

    you can't judge a trade by 1 season

    but are now saying you can judge a trade after 1season 1 month 3 weeks

     

    I don't know that anyone is saying that. Bailey will only turn 29 next month and isn't eligible for free agency until after next season (2014); obviously the full results of this trade will take years to determine. People's opinions will continue to update and changed based on what happens from here on out; I'm optimistic about the long-term outlook for the trade, but maybe Reddick turns into a consistent star and Bailey struggles. No one can say. The point is certainly not that after 1 season and 3 weeks we know all that we need to know...rather it's quite the opposite: that the early results from this season show that those who wanted to write the trade off as terrible once and for all last year (based on Bailey getting injured and then looking rusty in the 15 innings - not 41 - he did pitch) were foolish to do so.



    The point is certainly not that after 1 season and 3 weeks we know all that we need to know...rather it's quite the opposite: that the early results from this season show that those who wanted to write the trade off as terrible once and for all last year were foolish to do so.

     

    thanks Flapjack07'

    I see what U R saying

    not sold on everyone else who has said such things

    to be cont.............................

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re:

     

    The Reddick trade is nothing compared to the Gagne trade in 2007.  That trade was so "FOUR-LETTER-"F"-WORD-IN-PAST-TENSE" up.   *shaking my head*

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re:

    1. Bailey's whole career? Good reliever but not a "great" closer. He pitched very well in oakland. Not an elite closer 

    From 2009-2011, his three years with Oakland, he had the 5th best ERA in BB.

    And made the AS team twice.

    7th in LOB%

    3rd in Whip.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re:

     We traded Masterson to get a better offensive catcher because it was badly needed...

    We essentially traded Masterson & Hagadone for 1.5 years of VMart and the futures of Matt Barnes and Henry  Owens.

    The deal is not ready to be fully judged, but I like the way our side looks right now.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share