Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

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    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today : actually, he sounds spot on.
    Posted by the_yazzer[/QUOTE]

    not really..hes a broken record..Kinda like you blaming theo for everything..not really much to add to the conversation..
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]Ellsbury is an Allstar, and people love him . He's a one time reserve AS, and you love him for the time being. You also have no ability to think beyond whether your August check from the federal government is on the way. I'll put you down for wanting to pay Ellsbury 12 to 14M for the next 2 years, as a bookend to Crawbust, career Red Sox #6 hitter.  ctred, provide the details on your extension offer to Boras, or your FA bid for this Hall of Fame player. Just curious what your plan is, beyond July 20;)  
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]


    I don't owe you a business plan for a being a fan and liking a player.  Why don't you give me a business plan for keeping Kemp? he becomes a free agent one years sooner and between him Gonzalez and Crawford your likely uping the payroll to 65 million for 3 players (ONE year sooner) now tell me how you make that work when Lester/Youkilis/Beckett are all coming off of contract with those contracts still on the books for another several years????...keep in mind we still have to pay for a closer/RF/C soon as well.  Even if Ells can't be Signed then Kemp would be as equally hard......but at least we get Ells for a year longer.

    If I can't think beyond the July 20 (today is july 22/unless of course you were suggesting I can't think past two days ago.....real classy softy) then you can't think beyond anything else but your hate for Ellsbury.

     
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    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]Kemp  v. LHP SLG .597  OPS 1.062 Bellsbury v. LHP SLG .398 OPS .729
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Once again, leadoff hitter vs 3-4 hitter..Your so pzzd that Jake is making you look more and more like the fool you are...and were all loving it..
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]Crawford Yesterday: Career: .441 SLG  .775 OPS  HR 12 RBI 71 (Crawford multi-year is this) 2010    .495 SLG  .851 OPS  HR 19  RBI 90  All Career highs (Theo Pd for this)  Buyer: Theo Epstein  20M/base 142M guaranteed Crawford Today: 2011   .385 SLG  .666 OPS HR *11 RBI *60   * projected Ellsbury Yesterday: Career .428 SLG  .779 OPS HR 12 RBI 67 (Ellsbury multi-years is this)  Ellsbury Today: 2011   .509 SLG  .884 OPS HR*23 RBI*90 All Career highs  By buying Crawford and setting the record market for this position profile, Theo has done two things: 1. Made a fool of himself for absurdly overpaying for Crawbust 2. Bid up the post FA price for the same type of profile player he will not be able to extend 3. Made a fool of himself by having to lie to the press about a serious attempt to extend Ellsbury, when, given the Crawbust bed, there is no way he will ever be given settlement authority to meet the FA demands of Boras/Ellsbury. Epstein is boxed in, completely, as the entire world knows that he could have simply passed on Crawbust to the Angels for 75% of his current base, and budgeted the same amount for a complimentary RH young OF'er and towards Ellsbury extension or FA bidding. There is zero chance Ellsbury will be with the Red Sox beyond 2013, but Theo will not tell Red Sox fans that. The comment about the extension efforts is a PR and pitiful save face false front. Henry needs to take the T-Bird away from Theo, and increase the E&O GM insurance. Once one who gave Theo the benefit of the doubt, there can be no doubt that he's worse than George Allen, DC GM.  Theo should admit his mistake, internally, and get on the phone and try and capture the only chance he has to cut his loss on Crawbust. He should call Colletti and try and convince him that Ellsbury isn't Crawford, he's Ty Cobb in his prime, but the Red Sox can't afford two Crawford profiles and, for Kemp and an extension, Colleti can have Ellsbury's 2.4 and his choice of Lowrie or Middlebrooks and his choice of Hassan or Brentz and his choice of Doubrant or Weiland. Few understand that it is Agon who has made life better for those hitting near him, but the Red Sox have a gaping long term and short RH slugging OF hole that, if filled, could turn them from slight underdogs to even or slight favorites if it ends up Phillies and Red Sox. But more importantly, it would construct the OF with proper complimentary balance for years to come. Bottom line, it's obvious that Crawford makes dealing Ellsbury, now, for a RH OF slugging star, about as obvious as it can be. Epstein's savior has alway been the large number of emotionally driven Red Sox fans who like or dislike players for reasons that have nothing to do with value and fit. They are behind him 100% in buying long term on Ellsbury. Of course, that's not realistic, but it allows Theo to get a pass on simply punting on Crawbustbury and just allow the clock to run out.  Smart fans, Slomag and Burrito and perhaps one or two other "hateful" thinkers, understand that calling the Dodgers for a young RF star is the only way out of the long term corner that Theo has painted Henry, Werner, Luchino and the Red Sox organization into. But, hey, Theo, call Ellsbury a core member and make it more difficult to dig out that deep driven stake broken off in your rear end. Ignorant Red Sox fans are loving it and buying the highest point, hook line and sinker, and are distracted enough to lose interest in Crawbust as a 20M Red Sox career #6 hitter.   Go ahead and spend 54M for 2 years of Crawbustbury, and do a dumpster dive for some RH OF'er pipe dream. Keep telling Red Sox teenager fans that you are working hard on extending the wet dream of a poster who calls him Robin Yount's nickname, "the kid";)  Heaven help you if you trade the pink and police hat doted darling for Kemp, and put Reddick in CF and a long term extended Kemp in RF. There would be a flood of tears, followed by anger and outrage!  To my many kind fans on this NY Times board, I've been busy dealing with my "corpse" of clients from our 59 United States, preparing for the next federal approriation of private property to pay another year of entitlements for the aging and increasing number of indolent Wards of the State. Give The Man all the rope he asks for, so he doesn't have to choose between paying himself and the little old lady who will be forced to starve because of Big Oil, fat cats and those with no skin in the game.  Mr. John Henry, keep up the good Red Sox stewardship, and tell Mr. Luchino to shorten the leash on the ape suited fantasy baseball mind. You deserve better.            
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]


    Whoa softy! You are a lean, mean, copying and pasting MACHINE! FOUR different threads I've found this pile in tonight. Know what I gotta say about it?

    REVERSE PIVOT JACK!!!! (and 16X now)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]AGon will "direct this team", not Crawbustbury. As for Kemp chasing skirts, the only skirty your chasing is the jersey skirt over the Varitek hole you are chasing. Repeat that AGon will 100% stay in San Diego this spring won't come true, no matter how many times you say it.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Know what I gotta say about that softy?

    REVERSE PIVOT JACK!!!!
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]he becomes a free agent one years sooner and between him Gonzalez and Crawford your likely uping the payroll to 65 million for 3 players (ONE year sooner) now tell me how you make that work Bellsbury will cost between 5 to 7M for 2012. Kemp will cost ~18 to 20M. Drew and Cameron were about 21M for 2011. While the Red Sox will have to do more than dumpster dive for a long term RH Of'er, that's going to cost about 6M for a 2nd rate. Why on earth go to 2012 and 2013 and pay: Crawford 40M Ellsbury   14M  ?           12M =  66M  (No, Reddick is not the long term OF answer v. LHP) Why not pay: Crawford 40M Kemp 32M Reddick/Kalish Virtial Zilch = 72M   Long term, why not lock up Kemp with an extension (he's younger and a much better athlete and baseball player who, more importantly, fits the team better), instead of spending 12 to 14M on Ellsbury to end up with nothing more than a bidding contest. Could it be that it's not "hate", but your own prejudice and ignorance that would object to efforts to include Ellsbury in a trade for Kemp? No doubt about it.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]


    REVERSE PIVOT JACK!!!!!

    And don't you ever forget it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    LOL really???  YOu've been hating on Ellsbury for a LONG time, even before your Kemp to Boston wish.  Your reasons have changed constantly but the end result is the same.  I would love Kemp to Boston, and If Ellsbury was traded for him I'd be excited to have him in Boston but I'd also be sad to see Ellsbury and don't want to see that as a fan.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today : No dumber words have ever been put together. I don't know what you are talking about and don't care.  Ellsbury has made you look like an idiot.  Deal with that.
    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]I think if you replace "look like" with "exposed you as" this might be an even more accurate statement.

    At this point it has become comic relief, from the weird splits sandwiched between trade proposals for players not on the trading block...

    If you believe in baseball superstitions Crawford will now go on a hot streak too.


     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]but I'd also be sad to see Ellsbury and don't want to see that as a fan. Emotion is why no one has addressed the merits of the Crawford/Ellsbury GM malpractice bungling tail wagging the dog.  Small minds, the same ones who claimed AGon's surgery meant that there was no way the Padres would trade him until this summer or might wait out the end and look for draft picks.   Crisp isn't selling insurance on the streets of LA in 2011, is he herd follower 5K? Most peope are followers of what is popular. Most people are losers for that very reason. Most people want something for nothing.   Peter Gammons reported over the weekend that the Dodgers, now 42-55, are www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/gammons-on-trade-market.html " target="_blank" /> looking to shed salary . MLBTR
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Then there are those that get something for nothing vie the hiers track.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]but I'd also be sad to see Ellsbury and don't want to see that as a fan. Emotion is why no one has addressed the merits of the Crawford/Ellsbury GM malpractice bungling tail wagging the dog.  Small minds, the same ones who claimed AGon's surgery meant that there was no way the Padres would trade him until this summer or might wait out the end and look for draft picks.   Crisp isn't selling insurance on the streets of LA in 2011, is he herd follower 5K? Most peope are followers of what is popular. Most people are losers for that very reason. Most people want something for nothing.   Peter Gammons reported over the weekend that the Dodgers, now 42-55, are www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/gammons-on-trade-market.html " target="_blank" /> looking to shed salary . MLBTR
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    well personally I don't like Ellsbury because it is "popular"  If you recall Ellsbury was disliked by many last year.  Once again led by you because he was "soft" of "dragging out" his injury.  I not only didn't stop liking him but I defended him, because I not only like him as a player but I've also suffered a broken rib before.

    I also love, how everyone who disagrees with you has a "small" mind are is a loser.  That is a very narcissistic like trait you possess to belittle everyone who disagrees with you, and justify why no-one else shares your view on Ellsbury.  
     
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    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    crawford will adjust, it's because posts like these people hate playing here.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today : The white-coats want nothing to do with him; a few subscribe to the Huffington Post. Perhaps the brown-shirts will take him.  Take that back; most of them were purged during the Night of the Long Knives. Purge; there's a concept he's probably fond of.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    Uh yeah... why don't you brainiacs stop concentrating on one particular poster, why is it you feel the need to take that poster to task every single day?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today : Uh yeah... why don't you brainiacs stop concentrating on one particular poster, why is it you  feel the need to take that poster to task every single day?
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    'Cause he's just as relentless, and usually the provocateur; like here, he's the OP. Get it? The OP.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today : Uh yeah... why don't you brainiacs stop concentrating on one particular poster, why is it you  feel the need to take that poster to task every single day?
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Maybe because that poster will hijack any thread to advance his agenda.  I have done the role play before:

    Random poster: Great win for the Sox tonight.
    Softy: Ellsbury suks
    RP: But he went 2-5 with a home run.
    Softy: His OBP against lefties is horrible for his career
    RP: Whatever, the Sox are playing well and are in first place:
    Softy: Trade Bellsbury now for Kemp.
    RP: Beckett bounced back well after tweaking his knee.
    Softy: Wakefield should be DFA
    RP:  What the?
     
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    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    Poster, You would gain credibility, I beleive, by stating terms under which you would change your mind on Ellsbury. Just like many posters are retorting that Crawford may have a good second half, so forget the Spring, you are essentially arguing the same thing about Ellsbury in reverse. All well and good since 1 or even 2 months does not make a player's season, or certainly career. So with that in mind, under what terms, what length of time and what degree of accomplishment would you be willing to change your view on Ellsbury. Same can be asked for defenders of Crawford as to under what time/stats they would concede he is a bust, assuming he doesn't start playing up to his career/2010 blended numbers? Waiting, but not holding breath.

     
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    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]Poster, You would gain credibility, I beleive, by stating terms under which you would change your mind on Ellsbury. Just like many posters are retorting that Crawford may have a good second half, so forget the Spring, you are essentially arguing the same thing about Ellsbury in reverse. All well and good since 1 or even 2 months does not make a player's season, or certainly career. So with that in mind, under what terms, what length of time and what degree of accomplishment would you be willing to change your view on Ellsbury. Same can be asked for defenders of Crawford as to under what time/stats they would concede he is a bust, assuming he doesn't start playing up to his career/2010 blended numbers? Waiting, but not holding breath.
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    As far as Crawford, I'd have to see a .240 or below average until All Star break of 2012 to be worried.  Pedroia started hitting about the time CC did but CC got injured and had to restart the season.  Pedey didn't have to do that, as an example.  Softy will not box himself in on Ellsbury.  He will just move the goalpost.  As soon as Ellsbury started playing really well, it became less about numbers and more about how easy it is hitting in front of Pedey and Agon.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]WAR is not a valid player value appraisal. Francouer is a one trick pony who doesn't have a contract extension because no smart gm would ever pay him 5 to 7 M to sit half the time. His career OBP is .310 and he is a punch and judy corner of'er. His 2010 V. LHP slugging % was .442. Not very impressive for a guy that does little else on platework. Long term, bidding for or extending Francouer is poor value and fit for a player who has weak market demand for a reason. he is in a the right market. Francouer and Pence are the favorite names to fix the Crawbust OF construction flaw. The reason is not value or fit, it's to retain Ellsbury short and long term and add a face that reflects the pride and prejudice of most Red Sox fans. Kemp, J. Upton and McCutchen are the only types of skill set profiles who are value and fit to repair the Crawbust OF construction flaw. I'd love to see the reception McCutchen would get, if he took Bellsbury's place. The reality is that when Theo bought Crawford, he was effectively painting himself into Bellsbury's long term replacement. There is no way to pay both, long term, as the current Francouer dumpster dive and OF v. LHP patently manifests. Right now, Theo is having to lie to the fans and claim he's trying to extend Bellsbury and wants to keep him. For the first time, he called him a core member. This is to placate the prejudices of the fanbase. The truth is that Theo replaced Ellsbury with Crawford, long term. Bellsbury is gone unless Crawford is unable to return to the lower ranges of his career standard deviation splits. In order to avoid a 2nd GM malpractice complication on the heels of the 142M Crawbust contract, Theo must not allow fan prejudice to get in the way of locking up long term on a young slugging star profile like Kemp, J. Upton or McCutchen. If he allows fan prejudice to run out the trade value arbitration clock on Ellsbury, he will be guilty of allowing emotion to dictate baseball business decisions in a Lowell and Wakefield ceremonial fan favorite gifted roster spot fashion. Kemp's name, infra, can be replaced by a similar profile if that profile is a better current market value. Unlikely, given the fact that Dodgers are most certainly out of it this year, no chance they sign Kemp beyond 2012, and the Dodgers are currently big sellers who need a new narrative. A blockbuster trade would give them that and improve their balance and depth and current and future construction. 1. The Dodgers will trade Kemp for Ellsbury and 2 or 3 non-elite prospects/players. 2. Kemp will agree to an extension at 18 to 20M base x 7 years (to age 33) 3. Kemp will only cost about 2M more for 2011 4. Kemp will agree to a middle load his extension to create a lower than 2011 budget fexibility over the near two years 5. Theo or his successor is not going to extend or bid high for Ellsbury FA 6. Ellsbury's value is currently inflated and will only fall from here out 7. Ellsbury is a better current and long term fit and value for the Dodgers 8. Kemp is a better current and long term fit and value for the Red Sox The worse thing Theo can do is to continue to vacillate under pressure to run the Ellsbury clock out and appeal to fan emotions for a long term deal for Ellsbury. Crawford is a move that cannot be undone, nor should it be now that the mistake has been etched in stone. A blockbuster deal helps both the Dodgers and the Red Sox, short and long term. Crawford will improve once Ellsbury's fan adoration vacuum is gone. Neither Crawford or Kemp will be as popular as Ellsbury, Lowell, Wakefied and Varitek, but so what. The Red Sox will be a better team now and in the future. Crawford's role will change to the only role he is suited for. Being told to simply get on base and forget trying to slug to a 142M #3 hitter tune. Being the #6 hitter is embarrassing on many levels.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    Love your sentence construction (NPI); and IMO, you actually make some sense, instead of sounding like a stubborn heretic, which is often the case. However, between the 3 CFers you allude to, McCutcheon is the best, IMO; however, he's very good, not great (so far); what I would call 2nd tier All-Star material; he might be a slightly better defender than Ellsbury, with a better arm, and what he could do in Fenway is quite a thought; plus, he's getting better, and could become 1st tier AS material; sort of a Curt Flood type with much more power (he's on pace to hit about 25 HRs in a tough RH park); his future production is much more reliable than Kemp, who could be another bust, despite his up-side; he appears to be a little funny in the head, (Ditto Upton) and that's not a good sign.

    The bad news is, your 8 steps are still fantasyland.

    Also, FWIW, Francoeur has occasional power, his low OBP drags down his OPS, and he's the antithesis of what the RS want to see in a hitter; he's very impatient and not selective. Regardless, his arm may be the equal of Colavito, and he is a great defender.

    BTW, NPI means No Pun Intended, in case you didn't know.
     
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    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    Harness, what do you think? Softy sort of makes a little sense this time. He tells it like it is (well, a little) ala Cosell.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today

    In Response to Re: Carl Crawford: Yesterday & Today:
    [QUOTE]Fantasy is saying that a trade of Ellsbury for King Felix is going to happen. I've made it clear that my trade is not what Theo will do, it's what Theo should do. his future production is much more reliable than Kemp, who could be another bust, despite his up-side; he appears to be a little funny in the head , (Ditto Upton) and that's not a good sign So, correct me if I'm wrong. You are saying that Kemp and Upton are "a little funny in the head". Is Ellsbury "sound in the head"? What is your specific factual basis to support your psychiatric evaluation of the heads of Kemp and Upton? I understand Francouer and Pence and Ellsbury long term are the desire of most Red Sox fans. As a Yankee fan, you should be objective enough to see how much pride and prejudice is driving that desire. The Red Sox need a young high level v. LHP OF slugger, and Kemp, Upton and McCuthen is more certainly the better profiles for the short and long term. In the current market, Kemp should be an obvious target.
    Posted by billbyboy[/QUOTE]

    I'll grant you they need a right handed bat; McCutcheon would be better IMO. As far as Kemp's personal life is concerned, he had a turbulent celebrity relationship that affected his focus and performance. He had some strained moments with Dodger staff as well. The pressure to perform in Boston, and the AL East, would likely compound these dynamics; resulting in a risky powder keg. These incidents tend to repeat. McCutcheon on the surface doesn't have such baggage; he never had an off year due to personal distractions; as a result his output is more reliable.


    And BTW, I'm not in the mood to debate this.


     
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