Catchers: A View from the Mound

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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : Right you are. The best catchers are primed to see what you cite and much more. And the really superb ones also know what's wrong -- at least a lot of the time. There are cases when neither the pitcher, nor the coach, nor the manager can quite figure out the problem. Even God is reduced to guessing. These masterly catchers are primed not only what to see but are also self-conditioned to replay the event quickly in the mind's eye. They don't "break down" the motion move by move as it's happening, but many of them can when they have that "second look."  Jerry was especially good at that. Three hours after the game he could tell you what you were doing in the fifth inning. Not that you always wanted to to hear it. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Not gonna go there. I do think detecting flaws by catchers at the M.L. level is far more difficult, as they (mechanical flaws) are more acute. The art form of pitching is clearly more refined at the highest level.

    Want to add one point to Bean's comment about a pitcher trusting his catcher to block key pitches. In the same tone, a pitcher, especially one in his 20's, is thinking about pitch execution, repetitive arm slot, etc. Setting up hitters and picking up the "intangibles"from one at bat to the next is something he'd rather leave to the catcher.

    Veteran pitchers focus more on this aspect as pitching mechanics become 2nd nature.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Great contributions to this subject by most of you. You added refinements and raised new questions. 
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Guess who has the 4th worst OPS in MLB this year out of 350 players who qualify? (200+ PAs)
    Jeff Mathis (.493)

    Guess who had the 2nd worst in 2010 out of 346 players?
    Jeff Mathis (.497)

    Guess who had the 12th worst in 2009 out of 346?
    Jeff Mathis (.596)

    Guess who has 2nd the worst OPS from 2009-2011 out of 426 MLB players?
    Jeff Mathis at .531.

    Guess who is still in MLB now?
    Jeff Mathis
    His 3 year line:
    766 PAs  .194  11  68  (OBP .247/Slg .284)

    Guess who caught more innings in 2010?
    Mathis 553 to Napoli's 525.

    Guess who caught more innings in 2010?
    Mathis 683 to Conger's 441.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    By the way, 26 of the top 60 catchers in MLB had an OPS under .700 from 2009-2011 combined.
    Only 10 out of 60 catchers had an OPS over .800.
    Only 11 were over .770.
    19 over .742.
    21 over .726.
    Incidently, Salty was #30 at .712 and Vtek #26 at .718.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Hell of a good thread. Ex-Pitch is the clear choice for rookie poster of the year.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    No the kid could hit and catch....
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]No the kid could hit and catch....
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    yup
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : yup
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    molina is a great veteran catcher, always peske, salty is still learning but i still have my doubts about his game calling, our pitchers era have been awful, dont know if its all on him but even lestor is lost when hes catching , he seems to set up right in the middle of the plate. not a good thing with great hitters
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

     Eddie Perez was Maddux's personal catcjer
     
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    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]molina is a great veteran catcher, always peske, salty is still learning but i still have my doubts about his game calling, our pitchers era have been awful, dont know if its all on him but even lestor is lost when hes catching , he seems to set up right in the middle of the plate. not a good thing with great hitters
    Posted by tang1[/QUOTE]

    Gotta give Salty some time. This is his first full year in Boston.
    He's only 26.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    I agree, but I'm curious, Kottaras was 26 when he was here too. You gave him no slack at all. I'm not defending George, but at the time, we spoke of Boston not really being the right place for a catcher to "learn the intangibles", since there is no room for mistakes and a floodlight on the player every second.

    BTW, GK's been Randy Woolf's personal caddy in Milwaukee and doesnt have much catching time otherwise.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    I agree with moon, if the Sox gave Kottaras no time, and harness ripped him pretty good, then we should be able to rip Salty, who has been atrocious with several pitchers over the last 45 days--due I'm sure to fatigue and injuries=--but atrocious nevertheless.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    He really looked like he was coming along in all aspects of his game, except maybe more slowly in the intangibles or "catcher relevance" area of "handling the pitchers". I'm not sure if it was fatigue. I hope not, because Vtek had a lot of innings caught and Salty had more rest than most MLB catchers. We all know about is past issues throwing the ball back to the mound. That worries me about there being some deeper issue to this kid. He has a lot of potential offensively, but I am having serious doubts about his defense. If we build up other areas of this team this winter, I think we can risk another year of Salty/VTek and lavarnway in the wings (perhaps DH'ing).
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    You know this would be a good thread if I actually believed it. After seeing him in action, on the Ellsbury thread, I don't believe him. Too many mis quotes and distortions. When the facts aren't available to support his position, out come the distortions and mis quotes. The complete avoidance of the pertinent information, unless it supports his position.

    I'm sure we have a lot of USC pitching coaches hanging around the boston.com sports forum, though, 24 hours a day. Making ignorant comments and projections. Like, let's give Navarro a chance at SS! Do you think that projection came from a former USC pitching coach? Not I.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]You know this would be a good thread if I actually believed it. After seeing him in action, on the Ellsbury thread, I don't believe him. Too many mis quotes and distortions. When the facts aren't available to support his position, out come the distortions and mis quotes. The complete avoidance of the pertinent information, unless it supports his position. I'm sure we have a lot of USC pitching coaches hanging around the boston.com sports forum, though, 24 hours a day. Making ignorant comments and projections. Like, let's give Navarro a chance at SS! Do you think that projection came from a former USC pitching coach? Not I.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    You are a sad, sad man. Among other things.

     
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    You pi ssed on my Ellsbury thread with one BS comment after another for the past week. You earned that comment. You haven't proven anything to me, other than being a lightweight analyst. Anyone who projected Navarro as a potential starter or significant help to us this year, after a very mediocre career in the minors, doesn't understand baseball at a high enough level to work in the sport at the USC level. Maybe you did work there but I'd be surprised if you did.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]You pi ssed on my Ellsbury thread with one BS comment after another for the past week. You earned that comment. You haven't proven anything to me, other than being a lightweight analyst. Anyone who projected Navarro as a potential starter or significant help to us this year, after a very mediocre career in the minors, doesn't understand baseball at a high enough level to work in the sport at the USC level. Maybe you did work there but I'd be surprised if you did.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]
    From sad, to sadder, to pathetic desperation. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]He really looked like he was coming along in all aspects of his game, except maybe more slowly in the intangibles or "catcher relevance" area of "handling the pitchers". I'm not sure if it was fatigue. I hope not, because Vtek had a lot of innings caught and Salty had more rest than most MLB catchers. We all know about is past issues throwing the ball back to the mound. That worries me about there being some deeper issue to this kid. He has a lot of potential offensively, but I am having serious doubts about his defense. If we build up other areas of this team this winter, I think we can risk another year of Salty/VTek and lavarnway in the wings (perhaps DH'ing).
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    well, as one-game samples go, Lavarnway might be challenging Mr. Saltines for a job next Spring. All I know is he did seem to hit some sort of peak and then just started spiraling down the toilet performance-wise--more so on defense even though his offens has suffered. Salty did look good, but he sure did Wakefield no favors and probably helped end Tim's Sox career on a sour note. Would have liked to have seen what Lavarnway or Tek could do with Wake, but Tito refused to let them catch him, only Salty, even when it was clear Wake needed a change behind the dish and if it's the last time they played together--Tek and Wake--it sure was a pretty good 4 inning shutout out job v a good hitting Texas team.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Lavarnway's rep was that he had no chance to stay behind the plate for the past several years. He improved a lot in the past year but still has gotten little respect from the scouts overall. In today's game we don't win without him out there. He threw a guy out on the bases. How often does that happen for us? He got out of the box on that fluke hit to first and threw out the runner. I didn't see any passed balls but I noticed they weren't throwing a lot of split finger stuff either. His 3 run dinger was a terrific AB and it showed me that he realized the gravity of the situation and he managed the stress extremely well. The 2nd dinger certainly helped as well.

    If we look at the guys minor league numbers, what sticks out are the RBIs. The guy knocks in runs. He also gets on base. I hope he starts tomorrow. He gave it everything he had today and it lead the way to that win.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    I think he may be our DH/3rd Catcher next year.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]You know this would be a good thread ifI actually believed it. After seeing him in action, on the Ellsbury thread, I don't believe him. Too many mis quotes and distortions. When the facts aren't available to support his position, out come the distortions and mis quotes. The complete avoidance of the pertinent information, unless it supports his position. I'm sure we have a lot of USC pitching coaches hanging around the boston.com sports forum, though, 24 hours a day. Making ignorant comments and projections. Like, let's give Navarro a chance at SS! Do you think that projection came from a former USC pitching coach? Not I.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    Unless this is a pure mock, it's perhaps UR worst post ever. This is a terrific thread with much personal insight. Many have said as much. Really poor comment.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    not to jump on the boomertown, but I have to agree with harness. What does being a college pitching coach have to do with anything opinion wise. In fact, there are former MLB executives who makes arses of themselves all the time on national TV with idiotic comments. One's past as a baseball coach, player, etc. has pertinence in what they say about the game and it's "inside" game within a game atmosphere based on experiences. What one has to say about a trade, or about a prediction, or calling out a guy who isn't performing is simply having an opinion. Even the dumbest door knobs on this forum are allowed to do that--boom.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : well, as one-game samples go,Lavarnway might be challenging Mr. Saltines for a job next Spring. All I know is he did seem to hit some sort of peak and then just started spiraling down the toilet performance-wise--more so on defense even though his offens has suffered. Salty did look good, but he sure did Wakefield no favors and probably helped end Tim's Sox career on a sour note. Would have liked to have seen what Lavarnway or Tek could do with Wake, but Tito refused to let them catch him, only Salty, even when it was clear Wake needed a change behind the dish and if it's the last time they played together--Tek and Wake--it sure was a pretty good 4 inning shutout out job v a good hitting Texas team.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    It was just that: one game. The kid came up big with much pressure. But I wouldn't put him into a starting job just yet. He hit two meatballs for dingers off a couple of O's southpaws. Timing was great though. Nice at bats. I think his physical catching tools are under-estimated, but his swing is big and it may be easily exposed over time.
     

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