Catchers: A View from the Mound

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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    well, it's a helluva a one game for someone who wasn't even supposed to play in maybe the biggest win of the season....I'm not going to limit him from playing tomorrow because of a small sample size. Everything is a small sample size right now. The Sox SPs in general pitch a small sample size, like Bedard. If Tek is healthy fine let him catch Lester, but no way am I sitting Lavarnway after a 2-homer game. Small sample size or not. The team needs hitting and he just supplied it when others choke.
     
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    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : Unless this is a pure mock, it's perhaps UR worst post ever. This is a terrific thread with much personal insight. Many have said as much. Really poor comment.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
    Not just a poor comment but very revealing about the commenter.

     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]well, it's a helluva a one game for someone who wasn't even supposed to play in maybe the biggest win of the season....I'm not going to limit him from playing tomorrow because of a small sample size. Everything is a small sample size right now. The Sox SPs in general pitch a small sample size, like Bedard. If Tek is healthy fine let him catch Lester, but no way am I sitting Lavarnway after a 2-homer game. Small sample size or not. The team needs hitting and he just supplied it when others choke.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Often you see kids produce when the vets don't because they are oblivious to the pressure seasoned players have to confront at the highest stage.
    In other words, they have less to lose.
    This isn't to detract from his accomplishment.
    My concern tomorrow is Lester's poor form...on short rest.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Sometimes when a pitcher is having trouble with his deuce, he still looks like his delivery is correct.  He comes over the top. His elbow is up and slightly ahead. He follows through. All the motions are in sync.
    What in the deuce ( sorry, lousy pun  ) could be wrong? One answer is that the thumb has slid up from the bottom to high on the side of the ball. This placement is hard to impossible to see from behind the plate or in the dugout. ML pitchers are rarely asked to show their grips during a game, and I would guess never asked by a catcher on a trip to the mound. Even if a pitcher were to be asked between innings, he'd automatically show the correct grip with the thumb in the right place, only to have it slip again on him without his notice, save perhaps pitchers with superhuman feel, like Pedro. 
    We had a kid at SC whose great deuce would at times go inexplicably flat. For a while neither Rod nor I had a clue. But we could do at that level what is not done, or rarely done, in the bigs. We made him show us the grip in a bullpen session before every deuce. ( Maybe that is done when ML pitchers are trying to learn the deuce to go with their other pitches. ) He did much better -- but never did like pitching under pressure. 
    I use this example to illustrate, again, how hard it is to pick things up and to correct them, even when there are good intentions all around. Baseball is a game of habits, good and bad, all hard to maintain or to break. That reality explains, in part, why there are hot streaks and slumps.
    Baseball is the most beautiful game invented by the mind of man, but it can also be maddening.  I say we keep it. 
    Once again, terrific thread, thanks to all the contributors. 
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    I've seen pitchers buckle because the (pressure) grip on the ball echoed the game importance. This might occur with Wake as well in that the knuckler is a super-sensitive feel pitch. 

    Everybody reacts differently to pressure. It's a real mind game.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

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    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : Unless this is a pure mock, it's perhaps UR worst post ever. This is a terrific thread with much personal insight. Many have said as much. Really poor comment.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    With all due respect Harness, where has your insight been this year? How many poor projections have you had? How many comments have you had which were way off? How many "really poor comments"? What did you contribute this year besides being a good politician? Baltimore? All the horses azz stuff, high on your pulpit CERA stuff ad nauseum. Navarro? 90% likely to close out the wild card last week. Comments on me not being able to do simple math and then we find out a week later that it looks like I was doing that math just fine. Comment after comment which were just flat out wrong. 

    Expitch was a complete azz on the ellsbury thread and where were any of you while that thread was taken completely off topic and that was a good thread also BTW. 8-10 pages of vitriol over nothing. And you come on there saying he's rookie of the year. Everything I said on that thread was accurate and he just went on and on. What is different Harness? Between that thread and this thread harness. And you said his comments would make me a better poster. Hello? That was inappropriate and pure BS also. It was a complete waste of my time, and everyone else's time who was reading it. 

    He deserves my response. What the he ll is the difference between an opinion about a player and a person's projection about a player? He had an "opinion" that Navarro might help the sox at SS and wanted him to play, as did you. What is different about that and a player "projection". I had an "opinion" that it was not a good idea, and the Redsox had such a high opinion of that option they gave him a total of 2 innings at SS before shipping him out.  It was all horse's azz stuff. He backed up nothing. He hasn't shown any insight about these players. He has written some nice prose about being a pitcher, which may or may not be true as far as I can see. If he stretched the truth bigtime on the Ellsbury thread why wouldn't he be stretching the truth here? 

    Maybe he is who he says he is, and maybe he is not. We have all flavors here don't we. Who the heck knows. What I do know is that he wasted my time all last week. What I know is that you harness, didn't help at all. In fact, you made it worse. What I know is that no amount of fact made a shred of difference to him, it was argue page after page over nothing. 

    It should be about the truth. Facts should matter. And when someone is stretching the truth, distorting or ignoring the facts, they they should be called on the table by all posters and not be called rookie poster of the year.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]I think he may be our DH/3rd Catcher next year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    He could be helpful in either slot, especially with some LH reserve OF maybe helping him out at DH. If we go into the year with Ortiz not there, we get the 2 picks, save a lot of money and increase our roster flexibility. Having Lavarnway as one of our catchers, in a way similar to the way Victor was used, would give us an open roster slot for an extra reliever or another asset if Ortiz is not in the picture.

    But how do we risk losing Ortiz's bat? What about losing those numbers?
    Will they continue going forward in a 36 year old player? Who wants a multiple year deal and probably will get one.

    What we do know is that Ortiz will be worth X amount of dollars for the numbers he put up this year. For X amount of dollars we can probably replace him, if needed. At some point, Ortiz will no longer offer us 2 picks when he leaves. If we don't move him now, we may get nothing when he leaves. Do we know what the exact math is in that equation? Theo seems to be generally inclined to let quality players go in such situations. Pedro, Bay, Victor, Beltre...etc. When he has allowed popularity to sway him ( Lowell? ), it has sometimes come back to bite him. 

    Ortiz will be 36 this winter. I think we should seriously consider letting Ortiz go and Lavarnway is part of that equation. But Ortiz is such an institution, he better bring in a Fielder, Wilson or someone else of top notch quality or the fans will get ugly.

    Maybe Fielder is a better option and we make Lavarnway a catcher. What is wrong with that option? It's not that different from the X amount of dollars for Ortiz, and he is 7 or so years younger. 

    I lean towards letting him be the primary DH and back up catcher. Keep him in the lineup and give him AB. He has consistently produced at the plate his entire career. He has a great approach at the plate. I'm confident he is going to hit and we know he would be cheap, freeing up that Ortiz money for other needs. Lavarnway is a big part of the Ortiz equation.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

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    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : Not just a poor comment but very revealing about the commenter.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]
    You had 8 or 9 pages on the ellsbury thread which revealed a lot about you expitch. Big difference. You deserve these comments. You earned them.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    "Ortiz will be 36 this winter. I think we should seriously consider letting Ortiz go and Lavarnway is part of that equation. But Ortiz is such an institution, he better bring in a Fielder, Wilson or someone else of top notch quality or the fans will get ugly." Boomerangsdotcom

    Yes, we risk Ortiz having one more good year maybe... have to make a change at some point.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

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     I watched Lavarnway's swing, and concluded he had great plate coverage, not a detrimental "big swing". Having also watched Pawtucket highlight videos, I heard the announcer state, "If I didn't see it, I wouldn't believe it!" regarding Ryan's power. Is he the real deal? Yeah, I think he is.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    The Papi decision will be the hardest to make. The guy is our biggest hero evah! He had a great year. I'm not sure the Yanks will want a DH for 2-3 years, as they may need a landing spot for hip-damaged ARod in the years to come. Not many other teams pay big for Only DH-type players. Maybe we can get him back at $20M/2 with a 3rd year at $8M and a $4M buyout...with some easy incentives.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]I've seen pitchers buckle because the (pressure) grip on the ball echoed the game importance. This might occur with Wake as well in that the knuckler is a super-sensitive feel pitch.  Everybody reacts differently to pressure. It's a real mind game.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    No doubt the grip is the most important fundemental of executing any pitch...If they grip it too tight it tends to come up short, to loose it tends to sail. Last night Papelbon was overthrowing his fastball trying to "reach back" for max velocity and thus his command suffered, ditto Beckett, the night before..Late life comes from generating arm speed with a strong finish....

    One of the misnomers of the pitch count era is that it is done exclusively to protect a pitchers arm which is only half true...the main purpose is to insure that every time they take the ball they're fresh and have their best stuff...
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    I also used to pitch; I was more toward the "robot" end, mostly because my approach was extremely cerebral and I never got high enough (blown cuff @ 17) to experience a catcher to whom I'd turn over a game.  Well, maybe one - he's still a friend, LOL!

    Aside from all of the great observations so far, I learned that EP's "mystical" description boiled down to a simple phrase: my comfort.

    I was pitching a game and had runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 out.  I was usually a fairly dominant fastballer, good location.  Not that day.  I worked the batter and had him off kilter, 2 strikes.  "Here we go," I thought, and came with a two-seamer that began a little off the inside of the plate, and moved beautifully across and into the lower part of the strike zone.

    As I began my wind up, the runners took off and our catcher - not the brightest bulb - got some sort of urge to *DO SOMETHING* ... and came out of his crouch early, completely blocking the ump's view of my picture-perfect strike three.  I have no idea what he was thinking.

    Ball four; take your base.

    It's indicative that that was nearly 3 decades ago, and I remember that like a movie I'm watching, but can't even recall if I got out of the inning.  I just remember wanting to kill him, but geez, he was just too nice a kid to say anything. 

    Good catchers bring out the best in their pitchers in myriad ways; bad ones distract and drain pitchers. 

    At the level of MLB, there really shouldn't be too much downside to a specific catcher, but I definitely believe there can be upside.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    ex, I love the anecdotes. It's refreshing to hear real life stories that back up what some of us have been trying to show in numbers...

    catchers matter beyond their bats and arms.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Boom does go on and on. Off-topic? HE introduced the topic of Baustista and PED's without qualification, like "but maybe other writers won't dial in the suspicions." Anything to soften the potential damage of his bare bones remark. I responded. He complains about the length of a thread in which he was more than a willing participant. ( He seems to miss this point, but then people who traffic in overstatement are not known for getting or using irony.) If he thought he was wasting his time, he should have shut up. If he'd done the right thing in his original post, there would have been no long quarrel. The thread would have been much shorter if his "last" post had actually been his last post.
    Same old bad habit of speaking for other people: "a waste... of everyone else's time who was reading it." Did you check with everyone else? Or anyone? Give a fool enough rope....
    Boom gets rattled and lets fly in all directions, including at people like Harness, who didn't throw him a life preserver. 
    Here's the saddest irony of all. He whines that I ruined the Ellsbury thread. He comes on this thread with low-life remarks about my background. Scummy, dumb stuff.  But he didn't ruin this threat. A bunch of really good posters saw to that.

     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]I also used to pitch; I was more toward the "robot" end, mostly because my approach was extremely cerebral and I never got high enough (blown cuff @ 17) to experience a catcher to whom I'd turn over a game.  Well, maybe one - he's still a friend, LOL! Aside from all of the great observations so far, I learned that EP's "mystical" description boiled down to a simple phrase: my comfort. I was pitching a game and had runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 out.  I was usually a fairly dominant fastballer, good location.  Not that day.  I worked the batter and had him off kilter, 2 strikes.  "Here we go," I thought, and came with a two-seamer that began a little off the inside of the plate, and moved beautifully across and into the lower part of the strike zone. As I began my wind up, the runners took off and our catcher - not the brightest bulb - got some sort of urge to *DO SOMETHING* ... and came out of his crouch early, completely blocking the ump's view of my picture-perfect strike three.  I have no idea what he was thinking. Ball four; take your base. It's indicative that that was nearly 3 decades ago, and I remember that like a movie I'm watching, but can't even recall if I got out of the inning.  I just remember wanting to kill him, but geez, he was just too nice a kid to say anything.  Good catchers bring out the best in their pitchers in myriad ways; bad ones distract and drain pitchers.  At the level of MLB, there really shouldn't be too much downside to a specific catcher, but I definitely believe there can be upside.
    Posted by ABQDan[/QUOTE]
    Nice addition.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]ex, I love the anecdotes. It's refreshing to hear real life stories that back up what some of us have been trying to show in numbers... catchers matter beyond their bats and arms.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Moon, I didn't know about the numbers that you and Harness and others were posting, but I did note that I had been there both directly as a pitcher and as a coach, and over the years in conversations with pro pitchers and catchers.
    One always risks hearing "yeah, look at you" when autobiography is brought in. But I thought it worth the risk to humanize the topic with relevant examples. 
    And one of my examples showed what happened when I shook off a great catcher. Ho.
    Thanks for your kind words.

     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : No doubt the grip is the most important fundemental of executing any pitch...If they grip it too tight it tends to come up short, to loose it tends to sail. Last night Papelbon was overthrowing his fastball trying to "reach back" for max velocity and thus his command suffered, ditto Beckett, the night before..Late life comes from generating arm speed with a strong finish.... One of the misnomers of the pitch count era is that it is done exclusively to protect a pitchers arm which is only half true...the main purpose is to insure that every time they take the ball they're fresh and have their best stuff...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE
    You bet.  And that "strong finish" includes use of the wrist.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Keep the stories coming, ex.

    harness and I have been trying for years to quantify the impact a catcher can have on his staff. We've used CERA, opponent's OPS, W-L records to compare two catchers on the same team. We have identified clear trends with certain catchers that have been very consistent for years. Many feel that since it can't be quantified accurately, it must not be real or true. Others feel the catcher's influence on a pitcher is minimal at best.


     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : With all due respect Harness, where has your insight been this year? How many poor projections have you had? How many comments have you had which were way off? How many "really poor comments"? What did you contribute this year besides being a good politician? Baltimore? All the horses azz stuff, high on your pulpit CERA stuff ad nauseum. Navarro? 90% likely to close out the wild card last week. Comments on me not being able to do simple math and then we find out a week later that it looks like I was doing that math just fine. Comment after comment which were just flat out wrong.  Expitch was a complete azz on the ellsbury thread and where were any of you while that thread was taken completely off topic and that was a good thread also BTW. 8-10 pages of vitriol over nothing. And you come on there saying he's rookie of the year. Everything I said on that thread was accurate and he just went on and on. What is different Harness? Between that thread and this thread harness. And you said his comments would make me a better poster. Hello? That was inappropriate and pure BS also. It was a complete waste of my time, and everyone else's time who was reading it.  He deserves my response. What the he ll is the difference between an opinion about a player and a person's projection about a player? He had an "opinion" that Navarro might help the sox at SS and wanted him to play, as did you. What is different about that and a player "projection". I had an "opinion" that it was not a good idea, and the Redsox had such a high opinion of that option they gave him a total of 2 innings at SS before shipping him out.  It was all horse's azz stuff. He backed up nothing. He hasn't shown any insight about these players. He has written some nice prose about being a pitcher, which may or may not be true as far as I can see. If he stretched the truth bigtime on the Ellsbury thread why wouldn't he be stretching the truth here?  Maybe he is who he says he is, and maybe he is not. We have all flavors here don't we. Who the heck knows. What I do know is that he wasted my time all last week. What I know is that you harness, didn't help at all. In fact, you made it worse. What I know is that no amount of fact made a shred of difference to him, it was argue page after page over nothing.  It should be about the truth. Facts should matter. And when someone is stretching the truth, distorting or ignoring the facts, they they should be called on the table by all posters and not be called rookie poster of the year.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE]

    What the hell does my insight have anything to do with your degrading comment?
    You took up on this thread where you left off on yours. A discussion gets out of hand. Happens all the time. Don't blame me for not cutting into a heated debate...or hold me responsible for wasting UR time.

    You are the one who made the conscious decision to continue the other discussion. Not me. I've had similar debates last for weeks. I don't expect others to diffuse it.
    In fact, I ask folks to stay clear if it gets nasty. Blaming me is cheap, and beneath you.

    FWIW, I tried to show the merits of the discussion. I also tried to quantify the issue, to put it into another perspective. Why should that make me the subject of UR anger? MY R.O.Y. comment was reflective of his past work. You see nothing but disdain, as he does. That's gonna blacken and blind you to the fact that several respected posters have been highly complimentary of his contributions on this and other threads. It's not just me. Far from it. That's the truth.


    I never said his comments would make you a better poster. That's what 791 said about mine. Get the real facts straight. 791 would never have admitted it at the time. No more than you would now.

    As for insight, that's a matter of opinion. Posting from personal experience is insightful to those who have never toed the rubber. Insight regarding players on this chat board is limited. We all go by the same criteria: What we read and what the numbers and on-field performance reflect.

    As for my personal projections, I have no idea what that has to do with anything, but I'll tell you anyway. I bombed on the longshot O's projection.
    I was right about the Rays. I was right about the Angles and their venue-enhanced pitching. I was for using reliever Hill in more critical role early on. Had Tito done that, the team wouldn't be in the mess they are in. That unto itself might be the season.

    I took positions trying to show the importance of venue. "CERA" again panned out as the pitchers performed far better with Tek. Moon offered any poster 3-1 odds at the beginning of the season that such would occur. I noticed you didn't take him up on it. Weren't UR anti-CERA articles by "experts" enough to put UR money where UR mouth was? You avoided reading a thread uncovering compelling data about it, despite my urging. Wonder why. Gee, ya think the fact the team played .667 ball with Tek this year - as opposed to .505 w/Salty was important? Damn that "CERA pulpit".

    You, projected Navarro low. You got on a wooden high horse by using the fact the FO didn't use him at SS. The FO has made mistakes in the past. Arroyo pitching for CINN is one of many. Navarro could be another. Until he gets the opportunity at the M.L. level, nothing is decided. Absolutely nothing. 

    Oh, and for future reference, if this pitching collapse turns out to be heavily contributed to by our wonderful pitching coach, I made my position about him very clear back in May. I said he's detrimental and his affect on the pitching staff would likely continue.

    With all that, I still say projections are better suited for horse players.
    There will always be hit or miss. To use that as a standard for determining the quality of a contributing poster is ridiculous.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]I also used to pitch; I was more toward the "robot" end, mostly because my approach was extremely cerebral and I never got high enough (blown cuff @ 17) to experience a catcher to whom I'd turn over a game.  Well, maybe one - he's still a friend, LOL! Aside from all of the great observations so far, I learned that EP's "mystical" description boiled down to a simple phrase: my comfort. I was pitching a game and had runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 out.  I was usually a fairly dominant fastballer, good location.  Not that day.  I worked the batter and had him off kilter, 2 strikes.  "Here we go," I thought, and came with a two-seamer that began a little off the inside of the plate, and moved beautifully across and into the lower part of the strike zone. As I began my wind up, the runners took off and our catcher - not the brightest bulb - got some sort of urge to *DO SOMETHING* ... and came out of his crouch early, completely blocking the ump's view of my picture-perfect strike three.  I have no idea what he was thinking. Ball four; take your base. It's indicative that that was nearly 3 decades ago, and I remember that like a movie I'm watching, but can't even recall if I got out of the inning.  I just remember wanting to kill him, but geez, he was just too nice a kid to say anything.  Good catchers bring out the best in their pitchers in myriad ways; bad ones distract and drain pitchers.  At the level of MLB, there really shouldn't be too much downside to a specific catcher, but I definitely believe there can be upside.
    Posted by ABQDan[/QUOTE]

    Interesting story. Funny how were call instances from decades ago...but can't remember leaving food on top of the stove.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound : Moon, I didn't know about the numbers that you and Harness and others were posting, but I did note that I had been there both directly as a pitcher and as a coach, and over the years in conversations with pro pitchers and catchers. One always risks hearing "yeah, look at you" when autobiography is brought in. But I thought it worth the risk to humanize the topic with relevant examples.  And one of my examples showed what happened when I shook off a great catcher. Ho. Thanks for your kind words.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    That's exactly what lacks on this board: humanizing topics.

    Scenario: Runner on 2nd and one out. I signal my catcher to the mound to discuss change of signs for obvious reason.

    Catcher: "What do you want now? I'm tired!".

    Harness: ":Let's reverse 1/2 on slider/fastball".

    Catcher: "Why? These clowns couldn't hit what's coming if it was telegraphed".

    Harness: "You really think my stuff is that good today?"

    Catcher: "FK no. They just suk".
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In college, I had one game where I entered late in the game, late-season game. I go to my catcher to figure out 1,2,3,4 and he says, "You know what, you throw it, I'll catch it. I'm not putting down any signs." My jaw dropped, but the funny thing was that the two innings I threw woke me up as a pitcher. I made the decisions on what to throw and when to throw it and damned if that catcher didn't do a good job behind the dish anyway. I think back about that, and at first i thought it was the sign of a guy who was simply tired of catching, but it actually opened my eyes about decision making as a pitcher. You can't just throw what the catcher puts down (Papelbon had a choice, harness, not just because Lavarnway put down a 1), you can do what you want if you have to, and you can pitch with your own designed plan. I would kill most any catcher since that time if they pulled that stunt on me, but at that particular moment it was one of the best things for me. Eye-opener.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    In no way am I blaming Lavernway. I'm saying he was the choice made by Tito, as was Tek's wood-carving in the '09 PO's.

    Catchers are an extension of pitchers. They can motivate by using unusual tactics.
    In fact, one in particular allowed me to actually throw harder. To be blunt, I hated the SOB...and wasn't always aiming for the glove.
     
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    Re: Catchers: A View from the Mound

    Forgive me. I should have said "disdain". I hate to use the word hate.

                                      Frown

                                        
     

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