CC in Left

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]You guys are tough. He started out really bad, but.. He batted 305 in May and 275 in June before he got hurt.  He's struggled a little since coming back from the DL, batting just 250 since the all star break. CC will raise his season BA to 275 by October and play a major in the post season.  Next year, he'll hit .325. Left Field at Fenway is a bit of a challenge - not everyone can have the fielding prowess as Manny.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]I think you might have been trying to make a funny but you make a strong point. Manny was a guy who ran like he was wearing cement boots but through hard work figured out how to position himself to leverage that huge wall to reduce the number of singles and turn wall balls into singles.

    If ManRam could do it almost any fielder can by putting in the work before games. Part of what made Manny a good Fenway LF was the fact that he was willing to make mistakes and had a plan out there which was to play the bounces of the wall and reduce what was hit in front of him. He positioned for quick release on fielded balls to mitigate doubles and it worked.

    With Crawford's speed if he spends the time to work on this he could be some kind of a pain in the neck for hitters, it is IMO a matter of accepting the wall as a partner in defense.

    Just my take  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    O'Leary had trouble with the wall and he was a lefty, same as Crawford. The righty OFs seemed to play the wall better. The only guy who seemed to play the wall well as an opponent lefty OF was David Justice. He judged the balls really well for a guy who only had a few games there.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : I think you might have been trying to make a funny but you make a strong point. Manny was a guy who ran like he was wearing cement boots but through hard work figured out how to position himself to leverage that huge wall to reduce the number of singles and turn wall balls into singles. If ManRam could do it almost any fielder can by putting in the work before games. Part of what made Manny a good Fenway LF was the fact that he was willing to make mistakes and had a plan out there which was to play the bounces of the wall and reduce what was hit in front of him. He positioned for quick release on fielded balls to mitigate doubles and it worked. With Crawford's speed if he spends the time to work on this he could be some kind of a pain in the neck for hitters, it is IMO a matter of accepting the wall as a partner in defense. Just my take  
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Not to mention the amount of runs he probably saved by playing so shallow.  Anyone at on 2nd was a fool to try and score on a ball hit in front of Manny.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from the___yazzer. Show the___yazzer's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]His defense has been disappointing which is odd since it's not like he hasn't played in Fenway before.  At the plate, he has been performing near his career average since April for AVG and OBP (.289 and something like a .323 OBP) but with low really low XBH.  Obviously, expectations were high given the $$$ and everyone wanted to see a really hot month to make up for an awful April, but I will at least take some comfort that April was an aberration plus it isn't unusual to see a down year from a FA after signing a big contract.  I wasn't a fan of this signing when it happened but let's all cross our fingers and hope we see the old CC for the remainder of the year and into next.
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]


    i'm crossing my fingers in hopes of seeing theo blunder sent packing.
    jd crawford is what he is; no amount of finger crossing is going to change that.
    SLACKEY and CRAWFORD; isn't that enough to get some GM fired?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from -The--Babe---------. Show -The--Babe---------'s posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]You guys are tough. He started out really bad, but.. He batted 305 in May and 275 in June before he got hurt.  He's struggled a little since coming back from the DL, batting just 250 since the all star break. CC will raise his season BA to 275 by October and play a major in the post season.  Next year, he'll hit .325. Left Field at Fenway is a bit of a challenge - not everyone can have the fielding prowess as Manny.

    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    No, that's what you HOPE will happen.

    Chances are slim, he's not cut out for beantowne.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : Not to mention the amount of runs he probably saved by playing so shallow.  Anyone at on 2nd was a fool to try and score on a ball hit in front of Manny.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    If there is one guy who doesn't get enough credit for his time as a Sox it's Manny. People just did not get how much he meant to the team. All they want to remember is his controversial final season. They probably think back that he was a defensive liability when in reality he was actually a very solid OF with an accurate arm and a guy who religiously hit the cutoff man.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    Ellsbury seems to have mastered the art of playing shots off of the wall. It is not that easy. Give Crawford some time with it. It is a bit premature for many posters here to be giving CC the Drew treatment this early in his contract. It seems to me that oldtime fans were more patient and didn't demand instant gratification like many newer fans do.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : Not to mention the amount of runs he probably saved by playing so shallow.  Anyone at on 2nd was a fool to try and score on a ball hit in front of Manny.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]Exactly Space. With Crawford's speed and Ellsbury able to cover LC gaps because of his Crawford should be able to make the hitting zone in LF at Fenway a postage stamp. I am sure over time he will.

    The other half of Manny few people appreciated was how fast he could go from catch to release of the ball. Average arm at best but he got rid of the ball so quickly his throws to cutoff men and 2B had the same effect as a guy with a cannon.

    But in Manny's case it was the product of a lot of hours of work to get there. Manny had a lot of faults (more than we ever imagined it appears) but he was a very hard working ballplayer that never got credit for the work he put into his game because his brain cramps made him look like he did not care.

    Long and short Manny was a very good defender at Fenway Park and if he could do it with his physical tools I have to believe someone as physically gifted as Carl Crawfoord will figure it all out.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    Just observing Crawford, frankly he looks and acts a little slooooooow. They should have given him the Wunderlick test before they forked out $142 million.

    He hit the soft toss rightie Tomlin yesterday, if he didn't hit Tomlin, he was really in trouble. Still chasing the high fastball , can't hit the southpaws breaking ball, looks very unsettled playing the Monster.

    He was a dumb signing period, they needed a right handed bat. Werth wasn't the answer, there were other options out there. They are pretty much set through the lineup, they could have traded the farm for Kemp or Pence anyone but Crawford, and that is not really taking his massive contract into consideration.

    If they get past Texas and their Lefties, CJ Wilson and Derek Holland, both murder on Left Handed Hitters, if they get past them and into the series. Then they get the Giants or the Phillies. The Phillies with Lee and Hamel eat Lefthanded batters for breakfast. The Giants, Sanchez coming of the DL , Affeldt and Javier Lopez. Love to see Crawford bat against the side arming Lopez.

    Bottom line is this team, as potent as it is , is very vulnerable to Left handed pitching. That of course doesn't take in the loss of the third best starter Buchholz. They get behind late and the Lefties come in relief forget it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : Who wasn't right w/ Drew?  Theo and his "TICK ABOVE" propaganda?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]Andrew nobody ever asked Theo if he wished he had not had to give Drew the 5th year to get him, did they?

    You have always been all over this without any gray area accepted. Epstein's comments IMO were that he was paying what he had to pay to get Drew. Drew certainly was better than any alternative the RS had in front them.

    If the contract had been a 4 year deal it would have played out that Drew was a rock solid defender and steady player on the basepaths for the entire contract. that he had sub-par years in 07 and 10 and very strong years in 08 and 09.

    Players who have been in FA make 20% - 30% more than a guy will in his last year of arbitration and if supply and demand is not in the buyers favor as it was last year with OFers and as it was after the 2006 season for RF with the range to play in Fenway it can be more.

    That is the gray area you don't buy into, so you see Theo's notch above as total B.S.. But even so, I would say Crawford's $140M deal compared to his current peer group is way different than Drew's $70M was at the start of 2007. Not even close IMO.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    I miss Manny. I really do. I miss his power stroke, I miss his fun play in the dugout with his teammates. Some great years, and 2 WS titles. Everything after 2008, I just shake my head.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]Just observing Crawford, frankly he looks and acts a little slooooooow. They should have given him the Wunderlick test before they forked out $142 million. He hit the soft toss rightie Tomlin yesterday, if he didn't hit Tomlin, he was really in trouble. Still chasing the high fastball , can't hit the southpaws breaking ball, looks very unsettled playing the Monster. He was a dumb signing period, they needed a right handed bat. Werth wasn't the answer, there were other options out there. They are pretty much set through the lineup, they could have traded the farm for Kemp or Pence anyone but Crawford, and that is not really taking his massive contract into consideration. If they get past Texas and their Lefties, CJ Wilson and Derek Holland, both murder on Left Handed Hitters, if they get past them and into the series. Then they get the Giants or the Phillies. The Phillies with Lee and Hamel eat Lefthanded batters for breakfast. The Giants, Sanchez coming of the DL , Affeldt and Javier Lopez. Love to see Crawford bat against the side arming Lopez. Bottom line is this team, as potent as it is , is very vulnerable to Left handed pitching. That of course doesn't take in the loss of the third best starter Buchholz. They get behind late and the Lefties come in relief forget it.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]Name the RH options that were out there please.

    This was the 2011 FA OFer class, some of which were LH, some of which were DH's.

    Outfielders
    Alfredo Amezaga LAD
    Rocco Baldelli TB
    Pat Burrell SF
    Frank Catalanotto FA
    Carl Crawford TB
    Johnny Damon DET
    Jim Edmonds CIN
    Jody Gerut SD
    Jay Gibbons LAD
    Vladimir Guerrero TEX
    Jose Guillen SF
    Bill Hall BOS
    Willie Harris WAS
    Brad Hawpe TB
    Eric Hinske ATL
    Brad Hawpe TB
    Andruw Jones CWS
    Gabe Kapler TB
    Austin Kearns NYY

    Hideki Matsui LAA
    Kevin Mench WAS
    Xavier Nady CHC
    Corey Patterson BAL
    Jay Payton COL
    Scott Podsednik LAD
    Manny Ramirez CWS
    Matt Stairs SD
    Fernando Tatis NYM
    Marcus Thames NYY
    Jayson Werth PHI
    Randy Winn STL

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]Just observing Crawford, frankly he looks and acts a little slooooooow. They should have given him the Wunderlick test before they forked out $142 million. He hit the soft toss rightie Tomlin yesterday, if he didn't hit Tomlin, he was really in trouble. Still chasing the high fastball , can't hit the southpaws breaking ball, looks very unsettled playing the Monster. He was a dumb signing period, they needed a right handed bat. Werth wasn't the answer, there were other options out there. They are pretty much set through the lineup, they could have traded the farm for Kemp or Pence anyone but Crawford, and that is not really taking his massive contract into consideration. If they get past Texas and their Lefties, CJ Wilson and Derek Holland, both murder on Left Handed Hitters, if they get past them and into the series. Then they get the Giants or the Phillies. The Phillies with Lee and Hamel eat Lefthanded batters for breakfast. The Giants, Sanchez coming of the DL , Affeldt and Javier Lopez. Love to see Crawford bat against the side arming Lopez. Bottom line is this team, as potent as it is , is very vulnerable to Left handed pitching. That of course doesn't take in the loss of the third best starter Buchholz. They get behind late and the Lefties come in relief forget it.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]

    Like Adam Dunn
    314    AB
    .162   BA
    10      HR
    38      RBI
    137    SO
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    Ortiz and AGON were crushing lefty pitching, then they participated in the HR Hitting Derby, which seems to do wonders for players who are a part of it (sarcasm, cough). Can we just blow up the All-Star Game and the entire process that goes with it once and for all...Give everyone 3 days off and do it after game 81. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    All-Star Games do the following:
    1. Make would-be All-Stars who deserve to be there wonder what they did to deserve being left off.
    2. Tire out sluggers and put some in slumps who participate in the HR Derby
    3. Online voting that votes guys in only to see them miss the game due to injury.
    4. Players votes that pick .220 hitters or 4.5 ERA pitchers based on reputation instead of what they actually perform. 
    5. And my favorite, watch games where 10 to 15 guys now don't play because Selig forced managers to save players in an exhibition game that he turned into a "meaningful game" with great stakes for the winner--home advantage WS. 

    ......blow it up!!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    Adam Dunn may unseat everyone for all-time worst signing. He's been an absolute disaster.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from aussiewill. Show aussiewill's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : Name the RH options that were out there please. This was the 2011 FA OFer class, some of which were LH, some of which were DH's. Outfielders Alfredo Amezaga LAD Rocco Baldelli TB Pat Burrell SF Frank Catalanotto FA Carl Crawford TB Johnny Damon DET Jim Edmonds CIN Jody Gerut SD Jay Gibbons LAD Vladimir Guerrero TEX Jose Guillen SF Bill Hall BOS Willie Harris WAS Brad Hawpe TB Eric Hinske ATL Brad Hawpe TB Andruw Jones CWS Gabe Kapler TB Austin Kearns NYY Hideki Matsui LAA Kevin Mench WAS Xavier Nady CHC Corey Patterson BAL Jay Payton COL Scott Podsednik LAD Manny Ramirez CWS Matt Stairs SD Fernando Tatis NYM Marcus Thames NYY Jayson Werth PHI Randy Winn STL
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]


    So the class was thin, do you take a guy who is a questionable fit? For seven years, block the pipeline. They already had lefties , Drew and Ellsbury, in the outfield, they didn't know Drew was going to retire a year early, and all the BS about Ells not playing hurt and all, that was crap. They took him out of center for an over the hill strike out king Cameron who broke his ribs. Mac Donald played welll last year, they had Kalish, they could have waited till the trade deadline this year. They didn't have to jump at Crawford. 

    Free agency isn't the only way to get what you need, ever hear of trading for a player? New concept , I realise. For your list, I would have rather taken a punt on Andruw Jones than CC . Good fill in till what they really need became available, that being a right handed bat. They are vulnerable to Left Handed pitching, full stop. You don't think so, just watch.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    Theo said that Drew is worth more than 14 million a year based on one of his statistical models.

    2007 - 270/11/64  - sub par? 

    2008 - his best year but he only played 100 games.  the smaller the sample size, the easier it is to maintain average and slugging %

    2009 - was a lost year until September.  That helped him bolster his stats but he was incredibly inconsistent

    2010 - 250 w/ his standard 60 and change RBI....hmmm...perhaps this is "Par" for DL Drew?

    2011 - again "sub par" - 200 BA/300 OBP, 13 XBH and a lower SLG % than OBP % - really?  sub par?  come on man...sub par?  I wish I had you as my professor in Calculus.  I'd turn an F into a B+!!!!!!!

    Drew's most "famous" stat here is his OPS.  But remeber, OPS is very misleading.

    First, it is an AVERAGE.  Averages do not speak to CONSISTENCY and consistency is the name of the game.  Second, it is an AGGREGATE of 2 AVERAGES.  Third, OBP has 2 separate factors.  If you DIG DEEPER you will see that his OPS is high due to the following reasons:

    1)  Bases on Balls - this causes OBP to increase and thus OPS....Remember, this is not little league and a walk is not as good as a hit.  A BB does not score a runner from second base.  A hit does.  Got it?  Got it.  Good.  Moving on...

    2)  His low # of PA's......It is far easier to maintain a higher average the fewer AB's you have.  Look at how many guys are batting over 350 in June and look at how many at batting over 300 come September...moving right along.....

    3)  His Slug % is a high because a higher proportion of his hits are for extra bases hits.  For example, he's a guy who will average only about 140 hits - which is pretty bad - whilst getting 35-40 doubles, which is very good

    PS - please note that in Drew's encore season he will have Struck out more times than he has hits.  Simply Amazing

    PSS - yeah he could field but so could about 100 other guys who were all glove no bat and who would have only costed you a 1-2 mil per year........
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]Adam Dunn may unseat everyone for all-time worst signing. He's been an absolute disaster.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]Not everybody can DH, as silly as that sounds. Very few guys hit as well doing it as they do when they also play a position. It is what makes guys like Edgar Martinez and David Ortiz special and the writers that vote on HOF  narrow minded IMHO.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    I find it strange that a fan  sees a few months of a new player (who has a great past) and is acclimating, was injured, started out slowly, and extrapolates this small sample over the remainder of a seven year contract.  Why not wait out this year and part of next year before coming to such rash conclusions?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : Not everybody can DH, as silly as that sounds. Very few guys hit as well doing it as they do when they also play a position. It is what makes guys like Edgar Martinez and David Ortiz special and the writers that vote on HOF  narrow minded IMHO.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    agreed
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    aussie, you're right. and katz is right too. It was a lean FA period just as it was lean for pitching in 2009. But there is such a thing as not acting on a free agent contract because "he's the only guy out there."

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    Shea Hillenbrand got a lot of hell when he was a Sox player, yet I found him pretty productive. His knock was his low OBP, but he did have a lot of hits and l like hits. Hits are good. Walks are nice, hits are better, especially if they move a guy 2 bases or drive in a run. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    That's why I don't like OPS

    OBP is one need and Slugging is another

    You need guys who get get on base and then you need guys who can knock those in who do get on base

    You don't need your OB guy to hit doubles and HR's and coversly, I do not WANT my Slugger to look for a walk

    Another reason why I do not like the OPS stat
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: CC in Left

    In Response to Re: CC in Left:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CC in Left : So the class was thin, do you take a guy who is a questionable fit? For seven years, block the pipeline. They already had lefties , Drew and Ellsbury, in the outfield, they didn't know Drew was going to retire a year early, and all the BS about Ells not playing hurt and all, that was crap. They took him out of center for an over the hill strike out king Cameron who broke his ribs. Mac Donald played welll last year, they had Kalish, they could have waited till the trade deadline this year. They didn't have to jump at Crawford.  Free agency isn't the only way to get what you need, ever hear of trading for a player? New concept , I realise. For your list, I would have rather taken a punt on Andruw Jones than CC . Good fill in till what they really need became available, that being a right handed bat. They are vulnerable to Left Handed pitching, full stop. You don't think so, just watch.
    Posted by aussiewill[/QUOTE]i get what you are saying and hindsight is likely to bolster your argument.

    But hindsight also highlights how much they needed to do something. The writing was on the wall that there was better than a 50% chance that Drew was going to tank this year. He had the lowest OPS of his career in 2010 and was caught looking much more often in the new larger K Zone.

    DMac was buzzard's luck in 2010 and his 2011 stats prove it. You can't predict injury but Kalish is hurt in AAA and counting on Cameron after missing a season at 37 would have been negiligent. The RS had the WORST offensive production of any OF in MLB, were losing a ton of production at catcher in VMart. They really did need to do something.

    As for trading for the Boston Red Sox this was pretty thin too. The RS traded their 3 best chips to get A-Gon. RS Nation is a lot higher on guys like Reddick and Kalish than the rest of MLB is. Heck the two guys everybody wants right now are recent emergers in Lavarnway and Middlebrooks. Hard to have a conversation if you are the RS last winter without Daniel Bard's name coming up and then because he is a reliever adding Doubrount and a position player like Kalish. 

    A trade of Lars Anderson and Navarro doesn't get you Hunter Pence or even Josh Willingham.

    I am not happy that the RS made this signing, the probably should have stuck with VMart and A-Gon and been happy and dealt with bad OF production.

    But I understand why they did it.


     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share