Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    ... .868 CAREER OPS with runners in scoring position!  That is an amazing stat.  No wonder the brass had no problem overlooking the lack of plate discipline; especially given the inability to get runners in this year.  But. 868 with runners in scoring position?  Career?  I do really hope they keep him around.


     
     
     
     
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    OBP, while important, is not everything. Cespedes brings something that has been missing in our lineup all season.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    That's an impressive number (in 445 plate appearances). Here are some comps:

    J.D. Drew: .884 (1662 PA)

    Jonny Gomes:. 851 (1026 PA)

    Mike Napoli: .815 (1074 PA)

    Carl Crawford: .804 (1674 PA)

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Adrian Beltre: .797 (2739 PA)

    Victor Martinez: .865 (1775 PA)

    Adrian Gonzalez: .975 (1726 PA)

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to hill55's comment:

    That's an impressive number (in 445 plate appearances). Here are some comps:

    J.D. Drew: .884 (1662 PA)

    Jonny Gomes:. 851 (1026 PA)

    Mike Napoli: .815 (1074 PA)

    Carl Crawford: .804 (1674 PA)




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    Interesting comps Hill.  i would throw out Naps and Crawford - .50 on either side is pretty big difference. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to devildavid's comment:

    Adrian Beltre: .797 (2739 PA)

    Victor Martinez: .865 (1775 PA)

    Adrian Gonzalez: .975 (1726 PA)




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    Wow - Adrian.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Yes, already noticed he hits when it counts, glad that it's not just a SSS.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    The low OBP indicates that he does not get many walks. I would rather have him driving in runs than working a walk. You can't always have everything. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:


    The low OBP indicates that he does not get many walks. I would rather have him driving in runs than working a walk. You can't always have everything. 


    Stabbed by Foulke.





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    No doubt.  Glad the FO found some wiggle room in the organizational philosophy and put Get Er Done ahead of Get On Base.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Somewhere, someplace, NOTIN is weeping as we "fall in love with Cespedes."

    As always - 100% correct!

     
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Somewhere, someplace, NOTIN is weeping as we "fall in love with Cespedes."

    As always - 100% correct!

     




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    Why do fools fall in lo-ove?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to hill55's comment:

    That's an impressive number (in 445 plate appearances). Here are some comps:

    J.D. Drew: .884 (1662 PA)

    Jonny Gomes:. 851 (1026 PA)

    Mike Napoli: .815 (1074 PA)

    Carl Crawford: .804 (1674 PA)



    Which belies the notion that J. D. Drew was a poor RBI guy.  He just didn't get as many chances because of where he was in the order.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    That's an impressive number (in 445 plate appearances). Here are some comps:

    J.D. Drew: .884 (1662 PA)

    Jonny Gomes:. 851 (1026 PA)

    Mike Napoli: .815 (1074 PA)

    Carl Crawford: .804 (1674 PA)



    Which belies the notion that J. D. Drew was a poor RBI guy.  He just didn't get as many chances because of where he was in the order.

     




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    Yes.  Also, given the spots he hit in, Drew's penchant for drawing walks (much like Napoli's) probably hurt his RBI totals.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:



    ... .868 CAREER OPS with runners in scoring position!  That is an amazing stat.  No wonder the brass had no problem overlooking the lack of plate discipline; especially given the inability to get runners in this year.  But. 868 with runners in scoring position?  Career?  I do really hope they keep him around.


    QUOTE:


    Spaceman, it's a nice stat I agree but he still needs to improve his own OBP before being a valuable long term fit.  I like Ces and he has been pretty good so far in a Sox uniform but a high OPS is very misleading, especially for power hitter.  I will still take a player with a well balanced OPS any day.  If he can raise his OBP to .330 or above I may consider an extension.  Once Papi retires nobody is here that can replace him which is why we need a young slugger like Stanton who has the balance.





     
     
     
     
     







     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Somewhere, someplace, NOTIN is weeping as we "fall in love with Cespedes."

    As always - 100% correct!

     




     

    Oh, georom.  when will you learn to read?

     

    That post was about the very strong possibility of subsequent deals, with Cespedes being a likely trade candidate.  Reportedly when the Sox acquired him, Cincinnati put Latos on the market hoping for a like return.  Since the Sox have an abundance of outfielders and a need for pitching, one has to think Cespedes and his short term deal are potential trade bait, right?  And certainly a better one than Craig.

     

    Try and think logically.  It's not always about who fans want to keep. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    However, notin, would you agree that Cespedes .286 OBP is far more valuable than Nava's .332?? Or in other words, one player can produce a lot for his team without the OBP and another not so much despite a wide difference in their OBP. One of the big strikes against Yoenis by a lot of fans when he joined the team was his long-term prognosis with Red Sox. I happen to think if I have a guy driving in 19 RBI over a 22-game period and a guy who has proven to be able to hit HR and drive in RBI, there's some real strong value to that. The Sox are enamored by high OBP guys, and nothing wrong with having some of your hitters in your lineup with that ability, but there are no Manny Ramirez types joining this team anytime soon. The high OBP guys are frequently becoming marginal singles hitters with no slugging. I'll take 2 Cespedes types in any of my lineups even if it means more outs per every 10 at bats. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    However, notin, would you agree that Cespedes .286 OBP is far more valuable than Nava's .332?? Or in other words, one player can produce a lot for his team without the OBP and another not so much despite a wide difference in their OBP. One of the big strikes against Yoenis by a lot of fans when he joined the team was his long-term prognosis with Red Sox. I happen to think if I have a guy driving in 19 RBI over a 22-game period and a guy who has proven to be able to hit HR and drive in RBI, there's some real strong value to that. The Sox are enamored by high OBP guys, and nothing wrong with having some of your hitters in your lineup with that ability, but there are no Manny Ramirez types joining this team anytime soon. The high OBP guys are frequently becoming marginal singles hitters with no slugging. I'll take 2 Cespedes types in any of my lineups even if it means more outs per every 10 at bats. 



    Cespedes's overall numbers are clearly better this year - his OPS is 100 points higher than Nava's.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    I think Cespedes is our #4 or 5 hitter and how he does when runners are either on bases or scoring positions is more important than how many times he gets on base.  I'm not saying OBP is not important but you have to look at where hitters hit in order to evaluate his important role.  Lead off hitter's most important role is to get on base as many as he can IMO where middle of the lineup hitters' most important job is to bring those runners in whether he hits for a hit to bring them in or hit the ball far OF to bring the 3B runner in which will decrease the hitter's OBP.  

    "There is no try.  Do or Don't"

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    NIn response to dannycater's comment:

    However, notin, would you agree that Cespedes .286 OBP is far more valuable than Nava's .332?? Or in other words, one player can produce a lot for his team without the OBP and another not so much despite a wide difference in their OBP. One of the big strikes against Yoenis by a lot of fans when he joined the team was his long-term prognosis with Red Sox. I happen to think if I have a guy driving in 19 RBI over a 22-game period and a guy who has proven to be able to hit HR and drive in RBI, there's some real strong value to that. The Sox are enamored by high OBP guys, and nothing wrong with having some of your hitters in your lineup with that ability, but there are no Manny Ramirez types joining this team anytime soon. The high OBP guys are frequently becoming marginal singles hitters with no slugging. I'll take 2 Cespedes types in any of my lineups even if it means more outs per every 10 at bats. 



    Nava is a role player.  Cespedes is an MLB-caliber starting OF. My thoughts on him being traded were related to him being a player other teams would want and therefore give up quality to acquire.

     

    Trades are for making the overall team better.  Too many think they are solely for unloading undesirables....

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    The Sox are enamored by high OBP guys, and nothing wrong with having some of your hitters in your lineup with that ability, but there are no Manny Ramirez types joining this team anytime soon. The high OBP guys are frequently becoming marginal singles hitters with no slugging.

    Not really. Pull up the major league leaders in OBP and you'll see that they're almost all players who are also known for their power production -- Stanton, McCutchen, Bautista, Goldschmidt, V-Mart, Cano, and so on. OBP vs. SLG is hardly an either/or proposition.

     

    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Trades are for making the overall team better.  Too many think they are solely for unloading undesirables....

    +1

    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Didn't say it was either or, but there is an overwhelming consensus that many fans feel that a guy with such a low OBP like Cespedes is not a viable long-term guy due to the lack of OBP. I say that too many times a player is penalized for their low OBP and not given enough credit for hitting for power and driving in runs. That is my point. The Sox have had several players who look like good guys based on a higher OBP model but they don't hit for power or drive in runs, and others who even have a low OBP to boot. If the Sox had 2 Cespedes types I'll take it.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    i am drooling at the thought of this for 2015:

    3 Ortiz

    4 Stanton

    5 Cespedes

     

    it will be fun to watch.

     

    other names i have posted under:  none

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    The problem is that OPS in the clutch or with RISP is that it is not a sustainable skill.

    Even Mr. Clutch, Papi, went through a 2+ year clutch drought.

    Past clutch numbers are not a predictor of future clutch performance.

    A numbers like career OBP or career OPS or last 2-3 year OBP & OPS are much more likely to predict future numbers (with age adjustments).

    Sure, hitting in the clutch balances out a low OBP, but I wouldn't bet on any player's future OPS in the clutch.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    The problem is that OPS in the clutch or with RISP is that it is not a sustainable skill.

    Even Mr. Clutch, Papi, went through a 2+ year clutch drought.

    Past clutch numbers are not a predictor of future clutch performance.

    A numbers like career OBP or career OPS or last 2-3 year OBP & OPS are much more likely to predict future numbers (with age adjustments).

    Sure, hitting in the clutch balances out a low OBP, but I wouldn't bet on any player's future OPS in the clutch.

    Sox4ever



    Ces is hitting 283 since joining the Red Sox and has supplied some nice power but he really needs to cut down on the SO's and beef up his OBP to really help us out.  Either way we need to bring in a slugger like Stanton if it's possible.  Papi, Manny, Beltre, VMart and Stanton are all round OBP/SLG/ respectable BA guys.  Ces isn't at the moment and neither Nap or Ces could give the kind of protection to Papi that Stanton might.

     
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