Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    An Oakland fan apparently produced this biting video satire on the Yoenis Cespedes trade:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfaYdR8ONKo#t=159" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfaYdR8ONKo#t=159


    Enjoy.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Funny, Hill!  Esp. like the run differential mention, that cracked me up.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Didn't say it was either or, but there is an overwhelming consensus that many fans feel that a guy with such a low OBP like Cespedes is not a viable long-term guy due to the lack of OBP. I say that too many times a player is penalized for their low OBP and not given enough credit for hitting for power and driving in runs. That is my point. The Sox have had several players who look like good guys based on a higher OBP model but they don't hit for power or drive in runs, and others who even have a low OBP to boot. If the Sox had 2 Cespedes types I'll take it.




    Well, a low OBP guy with some power and no other supplementary skillset probably is a bad idea.

     

    A simple way to look at it is this.  A good player should have 2 of the 3 following 1) OBP skills 2) power 3) Strong defensive skills.

     

    Cespedes has 2 and 3.  Someone like Mark Trumbo has just 2...

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Didn't say it was either or, but there is an overwhelming consensus that many fans feel that a guy with such a low OBP like Cespedes is not a viable long-term guy due to the lack of OBP. I say that too many times a player is penalized for their low OBP and not given enough credit for hitting for power and driving in runs. That is my point. The Sox have had several players who look like good guys based on a higher OBP model but they don't hit for power or drive in runs, and others who even have a low OBP to boot. If the Sox had 2 Cespedes types I'll take it.




    Well, a low OBP guy with some power and no other supplementary skillset probably is a bad idea.

     

    A simple way to look at it is this.  A good player should have 2 of the 3 following 1) OBP skills 2) power 3) Strong defensive skills.

     

    Cespedes has 2 and 3.  Someone like Mark Trumbo has just 2...



    So now defense is tied into the equation..ummmmm

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Is Craig a keeper?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    Didn't say it was either or, but there is an overwhelming consensus that many fans feel that a guy with such a low OBP like Cespedes is not a viable long-term guy due to the lack of OBP. I say that too many times a player is penalized for their low OBP and not given enough credit for hitting for power and driving in runs. That is my point. The Sox have had several players who look like good guys based on a higher OBP model but they don't hit for power or drive in runs, and others who even have a low OBP to boot. If the Sox had 2 Cespedes types I'll take it.




    Well, a low OBP guy with some power and no other supplementary skillset probably is a bad idea.

     

    A simple way to look at it is this.  A good player should have 2 of the 3 following 1) OBP skills 2) power 3) Strong defensive skills.

     

    Cespedes has 2 and 3.  Someone like Mark Trumbo has just 2...



    So now defense is tied into the equation..ummmmm



    When was it not?  At DH?

     

    Then again, we know you eschew defense...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:





     






    In response to southpaw777's comment:



     






    In response to moonslav59's comment:











     






     






    In response to southpaw777's comment:






     






    Ill take a couple free swinging power bats in the lineup. Your NEVER going to have 9 high OBP guys in your lineup. Its better a have a couple  Cespedes' mixed in. 283 BA (very good) 299 OBP (bad) 480 slg (very good). Hes driving in runs, especially when it counts, which is his job in the 4-5 spot.






     






     






     








    What happens when the "when it counts" drop off... and it will. It always does. Hitting in the clutch is not a sustainable skill set.... It's not even a skill set.




     




     




     




     




     




     




     






    Hey, Im not thrilled with a 300OBP either, but I think he can get it to 320 (MLB lifetime .317) and Im fine with that.


     


     


     


     





    I'm fine with that too, just not for my #5 hitter.


     


     


     




    Not only RISP, but with men on base period that OBP is a solid .340 and OPS is .830. Are you okay with that? In a lineup that has been traditionally good at getting those runners on he should be pretty decent.  And those trends have continued with the Sox. 


     


    Albeit it's dismal with no one one.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Not only RISP, but with men on base period that OBP is a solid .340 and OPS is .830. Are you okay with that? In a lineup that has been traditionally good at getting those runners on he should be pretty decent. And those trends have continued with the Sox.

    Of course. I'm more than okay with those numbers with RISP, but my point is that those numbers are rarely sustainable. The greatest clutch hitter of my time, Papi, went almost 3 years with horrible numbers in these areas.

    (FYI, Papi's career OPS is .927, and his career OPS with RISP is .945, which can patiallyy be accounted for by his career 175 intentional BBs with RISP and inflated OBP of .412. To be fair, his .299 BA vs his career .285 mark is impressive for such a large sample size, and his post season heroics are legendary, but no hitter in the history of MLB has consistently hit in the clutch year after year. Papi's Late & Close career OPS is .874 , which includes about 1/3rd of his BBs being IBBs, and a .261 BA.

    Also, it is important to get on base with nobody on. Someone has to begin rallies and set up the hitters behind them. Does that "unbalance" any of the good in your mind?

    Look, I agree that Cespedes' timely hitting has gone a long way to "balancing" his low OBP, so far, but what is going to happen when his numbers with men on base come back down to earth? I also look at the fact that he has never had over 90 rbi until this year as evidence that he has not been a consistent high rbi guy over his career, despite his mighty fine OPS with RISP.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    Pretty tough to get 90 ribbies in that Oakland line-up; Oakland is down a run a game average since he left and the team has gone into a tail-spin.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cespedes - balances the low OBP with ...

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Pretty tough to get 90 ribbies in that Oakland line-up; Oakland is down a run a game average since he left and the team has gone into a tail-spin.



    Perhaps never playing more than 135 games is more of a contributing factor than playing with the A's, but it is interesting to look at the numbers in context.

    Cespedes has 1637 career PAs.

    785 with men on base (209 RBI)

    445 with RISP (165 RBI)

    47% of his PAs had men on base/ 27% with RISP

    He has .267 RBI per PA with men on base and .371 RBI per PA w/RISP

     

    Mike Napoli has 3669 career PAs.

    1729 with men on base (404 RBI)

    1074 with RISP (336 RBI)

    47% of his career PAs were with men on base/ 29% RISP

    He has .234 RBI per PA with men on base/  .313 RISP

     

    David Ortiz has 8771 career PAs

    4423 with men on base (1254 RBI)

    2633 with RISP (1021 RBI)

    50% of Papi's PAs have had men on base/ 30% RISP

    .284 RBI per PA with men on base/ .388 RBI per PA RISP

     

    It's interesting to see that Napoli and Cespedes are pretty close in percentage of times getting up with men on base and RISP. Papi has had more chances, but not by a whole lot.

    Cespedes certainly bats in more runners when given the chance than Napoli, but is it really enough to outweigh or "balance" the much lower OBP?

    In a way, Napoli is penalized using PAs not ABs, because he walks so much. Looking at RBI per AB:

    Cespedes:

    RBI/AB: 248/1637  (.151)

    MOB: 209/709  (.295)

    RISP: 165/387 (.426)

    Napoli:

    RBI/AB: 522/3150 (.166)

    MOB: 404/1439 (.281)

    RISP: 336/856 (.393)

     

    The higher OBP helps Napoli score more runs than Cespedes and push runners up a base to allow them to score more frequently when others get hits w RISP.

     

     

     

     
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